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ANDREW (TRUSTY) -- YOU NEED TO RESPOND HERE (Admin request)
- Thread starter seanf
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Andrew-- First off, let me thank you for responding. It shows that you take this matter seriously, and we certainly appreciate that. And this is not a witch hunt. We've heard some allegations against you, and before we take any action, we wanted to give you an opportunity to respond. But I think we may be talking about different things here. Andrew, we're aware that you don't fully control the prices of the reps. You and Josh are middlemen. And you provide a valuable service by providing warranties and communication with the forum members. Further, to my knowledge, there have not been many complaints about your service or watches.
But.....
No one is questioning you about any of those things.
There have been some very specific allegations raised against you. Namely, three of the smaller dealers have informed us that you personally have contacted them and told them to increase the prices of their reps or you would tell the factory not to supply these dealers anymore. Now I don't know if you have the power or ability to actually ask a rep maker to stop supplying another dealer, but that's not the issue. The question--which I don't think you've addressed--is whether you have contacted other dealers and asked them to increase their prices. It's a simple question, and we'd appreciate a simple answer. Now, preferably.
But.....
No one is questioning you about any of those things.
There have been some very specific allegations raised against you. Namely, three of the smaller dealers have informed us that you personally have contacted them and told them to increase the prices of their reps or you would tell the factory not to supply these dealers anymore. Now I don't know if you have the power or ability to actually ask a rep maker to stop supplying another dealer, but that's not the issue. The question--which I don't think you've addressed--is whether you have contacted other dealers and asked them to increase their prices. It's a simple question, and we'd appreciate a simple answer. Now, preferably.
I don't want to be an apologist for anyone, but this is truly brutal. Maybe that's appropriate, but as it doesn't look like this is getting resolved in public, maybe the admins working this out with Andrew in a more quiet forum, then reporting any (good hopefully) news back to the masses might be more productive?
That's not a statement on the merits of the thread, just a suggestion as to an alternate means of resolution.
That's not a statement on the merits of the thread, just a suggestion as to an alternate means of resolution.
seanf said:
If this *was* a fact..... ....and Andrew did contact these small dealers for being a few bucks cheaper... ....and they were so upset about it, that they would just start mentioning it.... ...wouldn't they *post* the email? You know, I dont know andrew, have never delt with him. I say that if we can put this rummor out into the air. Then we can also put the facts into the air too. Who are the 3 small dealers who feel that they are bullied? Lets see the E-mails they got from Andrew.
The rest is Gossip. Good for Soap Opra, not much else.........
These arnt rumors and its been an ongoing issue for a long time.. Nobodys ever seemed to step up to the plate and call them on it. recently some solid proof has come into the light and after Dave123 from Repgeek publicly announced that some dealers cant get certain watches because of Andrew, its now fully out in the open, and now we the people need answers. Other dealers are AFRAID to give discounts on watches because they fear they will have their supplys cut off from the factories. We tried to get answers out of Dave123 and he just back pedeled and logged out of the forum and hasnt come back since... its out in the open now, so its not going to go away until its sorted out.
The investigation continues...
The investigation continues...
cdzsmith1 said:
This is not brutal at all. And though I have said on many occasions that these types of threads can easily spin out of control, the public forum is the place to do it because the forum members need to see the unfiltered responses. And i did notice that in his first post Andrew immediately attempted to take it private by requesting people email him.
trustywatchguy said:
Honestly that makes it look like there's something he DOESN'T want said publicly.
@Andrew
Your reaponse below makes no sense.
trustywatchguy said:
Josh has a documented history of threatening people and being abusive. And even though you and he are attached at the hip, I have NEVER had anything bad to say about you. In fact almost no one has. With that said, of all the dealers out there there would be no logical reason for them to target you specifically. Josh yes but not you.
And in your response you claim they are dealers but you are not. You are just a salesman. If that were true then these statements are contradictory to your point.
trustywatchguy said:
If you are just a salesman and THEY are the dealers then YOU are Tom, Dick and Harry. Now that is just silly. You have been around a lot longer and have done more business with these guys. Therefore by the laws of business you DO have more influence than they do. That is how it works in the business world.
Now as I said I have never had anything bad to say about you. I want to see this worked out more than anyone believe me. But I want you to be the one to do it. I know you understand why I am saying that. You do know more than what you have said and the admin has extended an olive brach to you in the hopes that things can be resolved. This is one of those situations that will end up one of two ways. Either with with you clearing the air or with someone else clearing the air for you. The first will result in you taking a couple of lumps. The second I think will result in much more drastic action depending on what comes to light. I'm sure there's an explanation for what's going on . Help the admin out here.
This forum has well and truely lost the plot.
Mods please be professional about this and take it ofline. I don't believe this is the correct way to handle these so called allegations.
Mods please be professional about this and take it ofline. I don't believe this is the correct way to handle these so called allegations.
trustywatchguy said:
LMAO, see Trusty has a sense of humor. 8)
Listen guys you don't like the price don't buy, its that simple, duh. Another suggestion would be contact the dealer and make an offer, damn some people are just stupid.
bwhitesox said:
This was being handled off line but I believe some of the membership wanted to see how this was being delt with...Thus it was asked point blank in the open.
If an email was sent to Trusty and he replied the same way, it is not the same as the membership reading his reply first hand.
Natron
[smilie=glasses6.gif] [smilie=glasses7.gif] [smilie=glasses8.gif]
Tom, Dick, and Harry never buy from "The Cartel"
Tom, Dick, and Harry never buy from "The Cartel"
Natron I agree. Kudos to the admin. This thread is perfectly on track. The admn wants to know and they have a right to because there is a bigger picture here. If Andrew did it then they obviously need to know. More importantly if it DIDN'T they need to know as well because that would mean that Hont and Ruby and whoever are all lying in order to do what Andrew said thet are. That would also mean it was a coordianted effort, ie: the same thing they are accusing Andrew and Josh of doing. That is just as bad and I'm sure the Admin wouldn't let that go either. They have to know as the admin and We have to know as potential buyers.
We all just need to see what the next response is.
We all just need to see what the next response is.
For some reason this needs to be said over and over...this is not about high prices. This is about a dealer trying to prevent us from being able to shop around and find a better price through threats and intimidation. High prices from some dealers have always been a fact of life. I firmly believe you can sell what ever you would like for what ever you want to ask and the market will bear. Trying to get your competitors to cooperate in keeping prices at max levels though strong arm tactics is just wrong and is a blatant middle finger to us as a community. We need to keep sight of the actual situation here.
Dizzy said:
This is a complete lie,i have never said Andrew has done anything to anyone,please stop this twisting of words in this indeed 'witch hunt'....
I have never spoken to Andrew in my life and have no idea about his business.
Thanks and take care.
koster88 said:
Koster, I'm not sure I see where you're coming from at all. There have been allegations made by three dealers directly to the RWI admin about Andrew's conduct. They came to the RWI admin precisely because they wanted us to know about this and, if necessary, take appropriate action. Before we take any action whatsoever, we wanted to allow Andrew an opportunity to respond to the allegations. And my concern is that Andrew has not yet done that. So, with respect, are you saying that it would be better for the RWI Admin to simply ignore this, not inform members, and not allow Andrew the opportunity to respond? Because that is not in keeping with the RWI philosophy.
dave123 it was very curious... You asked the day after the dealer made a private claim to the admins here about his supply of ap roos being threatened, "why dont you ask how his supply of AP Roo's are these day". Coincidence? Possibly, but we felt the need to pursue it just the same.
I think Koster88 is saying he would like us to show some written/documented proof so it is out for all to see. This should definitely be public because having PM/email's could be taken the wrong way from the outside looking in.
'Written Communication' could very well not exist.. could be phone calls..
so now admin is accused of being less than forthcoming.. must be an agenda..
and 123?
lol
'deny, lie, and counter-accuse'
the post sounds just like... ??
roflmao
ok, yes, is not funny
at all...
so now admin is accused of being less than forthcoming.. must be an agenda..
and 123?
lol
'deny, lie, and counter-accuse'
the post sounds just like... ??
roflmao
ok, yes, is not funny
at all...
Klink said:
Klink that is not right at all. In a public court should you not have the evidence out in the open? I am not trying to belittle or disbelieve anyone's story, it just helps to have documentation. As to the phone call, you could state, "Dealer 1 received a phone call on 8/6/06 and was threatened" you see a simple time line and some organization is suggested that's all.
it is so nice when everything is tied up neatly
and it could be that our admin has taken sides unfairly,
that three dealers are in collusion to lie about another dealer
for their own gain
anything is possible
so, who is on first?
and what actually is most
probable?
as for my earlier assessment that a dealer could not have influence
over a manufacturer? Reassesment would indicate that is a strong likelihood
that a dealer with the greatest volume of sales could very well have influence..
just a thought..
and it could be that our admin has taken sides unfairly,
that three dealers are in collusion to lie about another dealer
for their own gain
anything is possible
so, who is on first?
and what actually is most
probable?
as for my earlier assessment that a dealer could not have influence
over a manufacturer? Reassesment would indicate that is a strong likelihood
that a dealer with the greatest volume of sales could very well have influence..
just a thought..
How does this get resolved?
Andrew is accused of doing something
(most it seems believe it to be true, enough to to take it seriously enough to discuss it on here and in private)
3 dealers accuse him of XXX
Andrew denies XXX
There is.. no way Andrew can defend himself other then simply saying " I didn't do it" ..
If an email does show up on the forum - who is to say it is real? ... I can spoof anyone's account if I really feel like doing so. I have friends that if they wanted to.. could take over each one of your usernames..
what I'm getting at is, who is to judge the validity of these said emails..which are the only 'proof' against Andrew..
I just don't quite see how this is supposed to be resolved..
- Ex
Andrew is accused of doing something
(most it seems believe it to be true, enough to to take it seriously enough to discuss it on here and in private)
3 dealers accuse him of XXX
Andrew denies XXX
There is.. no way Andrew can defend himself other then simply saying " I didn't do it" ..
If an email does show up on the forum - who is to say it is real? ... I can spoof anyone's account if I really feel like doing so. I have friends that if they wanted to.. could take over each one of your usernames..
what I'm getting at is, who is to judge the validity of these said emails..which are the only 'proof' against Andrew..
I just don't quite see how this is supposed to be resolved..
- Ex
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