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What is life like where you live (COVID -19 around the World)

Nanook65

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I get it that you have read, as have I, that experts are saying 12-18 months. I get it that with the current FDA approval process that less than 12-18 months is probably not all that realistic. What I am not in agreement with is that there is nothing that can be done in less than 12-18 months.

I've worked in pharma is still a long process 18 months before it hits the market in the US clinical trials and approval from the FDA
I appreciate that you have worked in pharma and as such you know how this stuff works. I concede that as the FDA system is currently set the process takes 12-18 months for a drug to come to market.

However, what I do not concede is that this is the only way or even that this is the best way moving forward.

Lets think about this thing in a logical way......

Lets ask some basic questions and see if we can come to agreement on them:

1) Do we all agree that we can not continue in "Lockdown mode" indefinitely?
my comment - I sure hope we can all agree that this is not possible
2) How long can we survive in "Lockdown mode?"
my comment - This is a biggie - If you believe we can stay in lockdown mode for 12-18 months then we are good. Lets just let the researchers do their thing and lets just let the FDA keep their current timetable with their current approval criteria. If, on the other hand, you believe that the answer to my question is something less than 12 months then we either have to change the approval process or accept the outcome of no Vaccine for 12-18 months.

I personally do not not believe that governments will be able to keep control of things for anything close to 12 months in "Lockdown mode" I believe that there will be regime shift & loss of government control & social disorder/chaos much sooner than 12 months. As evidence I did a google search of "how many americans live paycheck to paycheck" I spent no more energy on than to look at the top one that came up. The article was written Jan 11, 2020 & here is a link: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-...eck-2020-01-07 There is obviously going to be a variety ways of how you ask the question & such, but if you read the article you will see that it can be quoted that "nearly 3 in 10 adults have no emergency savings at all."

Given the above evidence and you come to the same conclusion that I did which is that "Lockdown mode" is not possible for more than 12 months then we must either do something about it or live with the consequences.

Look, we need to come up with an acceptable solution to this thing. I get it that there are smart people working on it and all that. I also get it that the current FDA approval process takes a long time. I also get it that we don't want to Vaccinate a population and create a problem that is worse than if we do nothing at all, however, it is all about trade offs.

I don't know exactly what the FDA considers when they approve or decline a drug, but I can assure you that they do approve drugs that have risks and that do not always work. There is no such drug that works 100% of the time with no side affects. It just doesn't work that way. There is some point that they just say "this is good enough, we approve." Why do they not wait for perfection? Well, if they did they might never get anything approved. Lets say a disease will kill 50% of those infected and a drug cures 99% of those. Is that acceptable? or do we just say "let 50% die." If your criteria is that it has to cure 100% of the people you would have to not approve the drug, right? When you put it like that the answer seems obvious? You approve the drug and save 99% if you are the FDA. Again, I mentioned trade offs earlier and this is an example of this. At some point we are willing to accept the side affects and the % of people that the drug does not work on in order to save those that it does work on.

Right now we, as the world, have accepted that going into "lockdown mode" is better than the alternative. This is another example what I am talking about with trade offs. We are currently putting the world into "Lockdown mode" and the world has deemed that the positives of doing that outweigh the negatives. Not only has the world deemed that the positives outweigh the negatives but ALSO that the worlds population has accepted this and is currently willing to go along with this. I believe that people will not accept this and that it isn't going to be anywhere close to 12 months before we have a massive problem & it will start with the 30%, or what ever, that don't have any emergency savings.

I am not the expert, but I have thought about this a lot and I think that there has to be a better way. Letting the world fall into Chaos and having regime shift/ governments fail etc is not an acceptable solution for me. Maybe there is another way, but if you are telling me the only solution is a vaccine and you are also telling me that this is not possible in less than 12 months then I believe we have to either reduce that time or come up with something else because holding on to hope for a vaccine in 12 months and keeping status quo for that length of time just isn't going to cut it
 
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6stackboost

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I live in Missouri, and we just started a "stay at home" order since Tuesday. Only "essential" businesses can stay open, and somehow my work at an accounting office qualifies and stays open. Most of us still work from home, but there are some that go to the office still.
It's the same as everywhere else in that we are out of TP's and canned/unperishable foods. We don't have that many confirmed cases yet, and I think this will do us good to keep it that way. Not panicking, but taking enough precautions in these hard times.
Stay safe everyone!
 

erick510

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Oakland
I get it that you have read, as have I, that experts are saying 12-18 months. I get it that with the current FDA approval process that less than 12-18 months is probably not all that realistic. What I am not in agreement with is that there is nothing that can be done in less than 12-18 months.


I appreciate that you have worked in pharma and as such you know how this stuff works. I concede that as the FDA system is currently set the process takes 12-18 months for a drug to come to market.

However, what I do not concede is that this is the only way or even that this is the best way moving forward.

Lets think about this thing in a logical way......

Lets ask some basic questions and see if we can come to agreement on them:

1) Do we all agree that we can not continue in "Lockdown mode" indefinitely?
my comment - I sure hope we can all agree that this is not possible
2) How long can we survive in "Lockdown mode?"
my comment - This is a biggie - If you believe we can stay in lockdown mode for 12-18 months then we are good. Lets just let the researchers do their thing and lets just let the FDA keep their current timetable with their current approval criteria. If, on the other hand, you believe that the answer to my question is something less than 12 months then we either have to change the approval process or accept the outcome of no Vaccine for 12-18 months.

I personally do not not believe that governments will be able to keep control of things for anything close to 12 months in "Lockdown mode" I believe that there will be regime shift & loss of government control & social disorder/chaos much sooner than 12 months. As evidence I did a google search of "how many americans live paycheck to paycheck" I spent no more energy on than to look at the top one that came up. The article was written Jan 11, 2020 & here is a link: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-...eck-2020-01-07 There is obviously going to be a variety ways of how you ask the question & such, but if you read the article you will see that it can be quoted that "nearly 3 in 10 adults have no emergency savings at all."

Given the above evidence and you come to the same conclusion that I did which is that "Lockdown mode" is not possible for more than 12 months then we must either do something about it or live with the consequences.

Look, we need to come up with an acceptable solution to this thing. I get it that there are smart people working on it and all that. I also get it that the current FDA approval process takes a long time. I also get it that we don't want to Vaccinate a population and create a problem that is worse than if we do nothing at all, however, it is all about trade offs.

I don't know exactly what the FDA considers when they approve or decline a drug, but I can assure you that they do approve drugs that have risks and that do not always work. There is no such drug that works 100% of the time with no side affects. It just doesn't work that way. There is some point that they just say "this is good enough, we approve." Why do they not wait for perfection? Well, if they did they might never get anything approved. Lets say a disease will kill 50% of those infected and a drug cures 99% of those. Is that acceptable? or do we just say "let 50% die." If your criteria is that it has to cure 100% of the people you would have to not approve the drug, right? When you put it like that the answer seems obvious? You approve the drug and save 99% if you are the FDA. Again, I mentioned trade offs earlier and this is an example of this. At some point we are willing to accept the side affects and the % of people that the drug does not work on in order to save those that it does work on.

Right now we, as the world, have accepted that going into "lockdown mode" is better than the alternative. This is another example what I am talking about with trade offs. We are currently putting the world into "Lockdown mode" and the world has deemed that the positives of doing that outweigh the negatives. Not only has the world deemed that the positives outweigh the negatives but ALSO that the worlds population has accepted this and is currently willing to go along with this. I believe that people will not accept this and that it isn't going to be anywhere close to 12 months before we have a massive problem & it will start with the 30%, or what ever, that don't have any emergency savings.

I am not the expert, but I have thought about this a lot and I think that there has to be a better way. Letting the world fall into Chaos and having regime shift/ governments fail etc is not an acceptable solution for me. Maybe there is another way, but if you are telling me the only solution is a vaccine and you are also telling me that this is not possible in less than 12 months then I believe we have to either reduce that time or come up with something else because holding on to hope for a vaccine in 12 months and keeping status quo for that length of time just isn't going to cut it
I don't disagree but, you have to think about the scientific part about it. It's a virus and could mutate which it could become immune to what ever they do. It can possibly make it a longer wait.

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Princewilliam

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Here in Sydney ppl are still not taking it seriously, the vast majority of the ppl I work with think it’s just the flu, despite senior management sending home 90% of staff and enforcing strict segregation between the staff that remain. One guy on my shift was out partying all weekend going to clubs and bars in fear of them closing, which they now have. Others are going to crowded beaches etc. a manager that is “working from home” took a conference call while he was out bike riding with his kids, his pay won’t be affected that’s for sure, others aren’t so lucky with most of the workers in my industry stood down without pay until this blows over, with management “working from home”

I feel Australia is very badly prepared for something like this, leadership is non existent here, our PM is mainly just following the lead of Trump and Boris. Sydney has a huge amount of Chinese visitors and while flights from mainland China were stopped, it was very slow. There were still double digits of planes arriving every day from mainland China and even Hubei for weeks after the virus became the talk of the world. No checks on any passengers at the airport, when you walk through customs there is just one member of staff from quarantine in scrubs with a face mask and gloves stood off to the side with a sign saying “if you feel unwell please line up here” obviously he’s not getting many takers. Just last week a cruise ship docked at Sydney harbour under cover of darkness with thousands of passengers on board, over 130 have since tested positive for covid-19, 1 has died.

I think it’s going to get a lot worse here before it gets better.


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ssouthall6

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Here in Sydney ppl are still not taking it seriously, the vast majority of the ppl I work with think it’s just the flu, despite senior management sending home 90% of staff and enforcing strict segregation between the staff that remain. One guy on my shift was out partying all weekend going to clubs and bars in fear of them closing, which they now have. Others are going to crowded beaches etc. a manager that is “working from home” took a conference call while he was out bike riding with his kids, his pay won’t be affected that’s for sure, others aren’t so lucky with most of the workers in my industry stood down without pay until this blows over, with management “working from home”

I feel Australia is very badly prepared for something like this, leadership is non existent here, our PM is mainly just following the lead of Trump and Boris. Sydney has a huge amount of Chinese visitors and while flights from mainland China were stopped, it was very slow. There were still double digits of planes arriving every day from mainland China and even Hubei for weeks after the virus became the talk of the world. No checks on any passengers at the airport, when you walk through customs there is just one member of staff from quarantine in scrubs with a face mask and gloves stood off to the side with a sign saying “if you feel unwell please line up here” obviously he’s not getting many takers. Just last week a cruise ship docked at Sydney harbour under cover of darkness with thousands of passengers on board, over 130 have since tested positive for covid-19, 1 has died.

I think it’s going to get a lot worse here before it gets better.


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Incredible. I work in risk management and Australia is the source of a lot my best practice documents! Doesn't sound like they practice what they preach!

I get daily updates on what's going on in Sydney, it sounds similar to here in the UK. There is talk we will be in martial law territory by Monday, some people have improved but not enough. Some parts of London are acting like it's business as usual


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manodeoro

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Hi guys
I'm just out of the hospital since wednesday ... 3 weeks since I've been tested positive with Covid ... and all I can say is that shit can hurt you badly ...
Fortunately I'm OK now but that's been long and exausting ...
The good news is that even if your and old man (I'm 60) you can recover if you're in really good health ...
I'm 48 kgs only now (I was 56 kgs 3 weeks ago) and I sleep most of day time ...
So stay safe and take care of you ...
 

CaptainSplash

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Hi guys
I'm just out of the hospital since wednesday ... 3 weeks since I've been tested positive with Covid ... and all I can say is that shit can hurt you badly ...
Fortunately I'm OK now but that's been long and exausting ...
The good news is that even if your and old man (I'm 60) you can recover if you're in really good health ...
I'm 48 kgs only now (I was 56 kgs 3 weeks ago) and I sleep most of day time ...
So stay safe and take care of you ...
Well you made it!!! Welcome back, really really glad you are able to give us this sobering perspective first hand! Here in Dubai we have been on a work/school from home strategy for going on three weeks now, and as of yesterday lock down and a city wide deep clean, to prevent exactly what you went through - but that has taken it's toll, since many people are in the hospitality, airline and personal services industries.

We'll all look back and remember the time the world stood still, and survivors like you will tell the story even more vividly. Whishing everyone good health, appreciate each other and keep your loved ones close - never a better time for that.

Nanook65 excellent initiative, good to keep perspective amongst all the members.

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ansoncopeland

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I live in a small city in Canada just outside of Toronto. There's about 200,000 population, the city is pretty much a ghost town at the moment.
 

jackbrabham

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Australia has started to force all new arrivals (citizens) to quarantine in a hotel under the guard of defence forces and police.

For those of you overseas, this could start to happen in your own countries. Time to get home I think!
 

Nanook65

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Well you made it!!! Welcome back, really really glad you are able to give us this sobering perspective first hand! Here in Dubai we have been on a work/school from home strategy for going on three weeks now, and as of yesterday lock down and a city wide deep clean, to prevent exactly what you went through - but that has taken it's toll, since many people are in the hospitality, airline and personal services industries.

We'll all look back and remember the time the world stood still, and survivors like you will tell the story even more vividly. Whishing everyone good health, appreciate each other and keep your loved ones close - never a better time for that.

Nanook65 excellent initiative, good to keep perspective amongst all the members.

Thanks

glad to hear that manodeoro is feeling better. Hopefully we will be hearing more and more about those that have recovered and less and less about those just getting it. I think the whole world is watching to see what is happening in Italy right now and for clues as to how the world decides to move forward. This is such a bizzare time we are in right now!

Stay healthy everyone.
 

cheld

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I'm in North Carolina USA where a statewide "shelter in place" (or as I prefer to call it, "cower in fear") order goes into effect Monday.

South Carolina's governor has issued an Executive Order stating that anyone from certain other places (New York, Washington State, New Orleans) who plans to stay in SC for more than two nights must self-quarantine for fourteen days on arrival. He's mobilizing the National Guard to enforce the order. So if you live in New Orleans and your sister in Charleston just had a baby, and you want to visit your new niece, the governor is saying you have to spend two weeks in isolation. Or he'll have you shot.

This will not end well.
 

jpchub

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7/12/18
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Cape Town
South Africa has been on lockdown since Thursday. The masses in the rural areas are out in the streets in their hords. A lot of them believe it is a whitemans decease and they are immune to this. They’ve been partying it up with liquor since Thursday night even though alcohol and sigarettes have been banned now. A few has been arrested. Our army has been deployed but they are pretty useless. I have video footage of how the police gets chased away with stones and bricks. This is not going to end well as I fear our 21 day lockdown will change to 42 days and the masses wouldn’t like that. I only have 7 beers left in the fridge and 19 more days to go ????
 

jpchub

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7/12/18
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Cape Town
South Africa has been on lockdown since Thursday. The masses in the rural areas are out in the streets in their hords. A lot of them believe it is a whitemans decease and they are immune to this. They’ve been partying it up with liquor since Thursday night even though alcohol and sigarettes have been banned now. A few has been arrested. Our army has been deployed but they are pretty useless. I have video footage of how the police gets chased away with stones and bricks. This is not going to end well as I fear our 21 day lockdown will change to 42 days and the masses wouldn’t like that. I only have 7 beers left in the fridge and 19 more days to go
 

wAterHead

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Please any help would be appreciated in the form of knowledge to help me calm down
Only because you asked for information to calm down. I'm up to my ass in it because of my job. Unplug your TV. Wasn't it suspect that the media called Americans and Trump bigots and racists for wanting to address Corona Chan one day, and howling for martial law the next? Fear and despair merchants pumping government propaganda 24 / 7. A lot of people have this bug, but this isn't the "big one". WuFlu isn't even remarkably lethal.
 
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CaptainSplash

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South Africa has been on lockdown since Thursday. The masses in the rural areas are out in the streets in their hords. A lot of them believe it is a whitemans decease and they are immune to this. They’ve been partying it up with liquor since Thursday night even though alcohol and sigarettes have been banned now. A few has been arrested. Our army has been deployed but they are pretty useless. I have video footage of how the police gets chased away with stones and bricks. This is not going to end well as I fear our 21 day lockdown will change to 42 days and the masses wouldn’t like that. I only have 7 beers left in the fridge and 19 more days to go
Feel your pain jpchub Joburg's my home town. Anyway, keep your head down and run in zig zag patterns - seems to be good advice at the moment for all of us :).

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chiefcptluxe

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Here in austria we can do sports outside. So this time is a bit eaysier for me.
i hope it is over soon.
stay healthy guys!
 

manodeoro

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manodeoro Glad you're okay and good luck in getting back to full fitness.

Thanks buddy ... getting back in fitness is just a question of time I suppose ...
Now I just hope that I'm immune after that ...if the virus doesn't mute I suppose I should ...