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THE LAST STEPS to the GEN in PAM Replicas – MOD GUIDE
January 2013
WARNING
We are studying the flaws of the best PAM replicas in order to know what are the last steps to make them almost like the gen. This thread is just a constructive criticism, because we consider these PAM replicas the most perfect in the market. Due to above mentioned, it is worth to announce these little flaws in order to inform makers and dealers about the last modifications to reach almost a 1:1 gen watch.
Most likely these corrections cannot be made at the same time and we will have to follow buying replicas of these watches. This is only a summary of the way to follow to the 1:1 gen. In the same way this study could be used as a MOD GUIDE for Modders and “do it yourself†people.
If we made this kind of analysis in other brand replicas, even the most accurate, surely we would find more flaws than in these Super PAM replicas. Therefore buy them like that without hesitation, because the following study is almost a microscopic analysis of merely noticeable flaws.
Neither these flaws nor the modifications will have influence on the working of the watch, they are just cosmetic flaws and cosmetic modifications.
In the same way, please bear in mind that we are talking about replicas 30 -50 times less expensive than a gen and we cannot get at this price level all characteristics and features 100% of the gen watch. Therefore the crystal could be a little less clear, general finish will not be as perfect as the magnificent gen finish, dial could be not as crisp and well defined as the gen, etc…
INTRODUCTION
As you know current replicas (October-November 2012) of PAM are very close to the gen watches.
Nowadays we consider one of the most perfect PAM replica the PAM 111 N-series V3 from Noob factory. Although the great quality of these replicas, there are several improvements pending to be introduced as follows:
- Correct Swan Neck micrometric Screw length and head
- Correct shape of Swan Neck Spring http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1168765&postcount=332
- Modifications to get “Y†shaped Incabloc http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-panerai-opxi-113823
- “Slim†crownhttp://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1156643&postcount=269
- Gasket for the CG Pin http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-kuvarsit-360-119090
- Improvements in: Gear train, Ratchet & Crown wheels and screws
- Improvement of OFFICINE PANERAI engraving on movement bridges
As above said, and we repeat it due to its importance, neither these flaws nor the modifications will have influence on the working of the watch, they are just cosmetic flaws and cosmetic modifications.
We will divide this study into two different Threads Par I & Part II :
THREAD Part I
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part I)–Swan Neck & Incabloc Modifications – Jan 2013
In this thread The Last Steps to the Gen Part I, we will deal with three first flaws, which are located in the movement and more concretely in the Swan Neck device and Incabloc Shock Protection System.
THREAD Part II
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part II)-Crown, Pin gasket, Gears, Wheels & Engravings - Jan 2103
In this thread The Last steps to the Gen Part II, we will deal with the last four indicated flaws, which are located in the Crown, CG and Movement Gear Train, Wheels and bridges.
*****************************
THREAD Part I
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part I) – Swan Neck & Incabloc Modifications – Jan 2013
AKNOWLEDGEMENT: Many thanks to RWI PCTeam’s members Goin, marlin and Rwolf for their kindness providing magnificient pics of their watches and mods and a lot of info about their jobs. Many of the magnificent gen pics are from the goin’s gen PAM 114 (goin courtesy)
1- IMPROVEMENTS IN SWAN NECK DEVICES
In order to understand appropriately below explanations about this matter, would be interesting to read before this Thread about Swan Neck devices:
“SWAN NECK†(Part I) – What is this? How does it work?
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swan-neck-part-what-thisi-84846.html?p=831645
Anyway we will include below a little Summary of the parts of this Swan Neck device working together with the Regulator of the watch, extracted from above mentioned thread.
1.1- WHAT IS A SWAN NECK, AND WHAT IS A SWAN NECK FOR ?
In the FIGURE 1 a Swan Neck device can be observed (circled in yellow) applied to a conventional regulator (circled in red). In that figure we are indicating the names that we will use for the Swan Neck and Regulator parts
FIGURE 1 - SWAN NECK DEVICE APPLIED TO A CONVENTIONAL REGULATOR
The “Swan Neck†device is an auxiliary device applied to the conventional regulator of a watch movement, to achieve a fine adjustment of the regulator position and assure the firm maintenance of this adjustment position once established.
The fine adjustment is performed by a micrometric screw MS that determines, with high precision, the position of the regulator lever RL, and a spring swan’s neck-shaped SN, that through its spring tensile strength (orange arrow) keeps the regulator lever RL pressed against the tip of the screw MS.
When you make a regulation adjustment, the Swan Neck device works, combined with the watch movement regulator, tightening or loosening the micrometric screw MS, and acts by moving the regulator lever RL, and at the same time it also moves the regulator head RH from Faster Position to Medium Position and to Lower Position and vice versa, as indicated in the FIGURE 2
FIGURE 2 – COMBINED WORKING SYSTEM OF THE SWAN NECK DEVICE AND THE CONVENTIONAL REGULATOR
- In Faster Position the watch movement will run at a faster speed. The timepiece will gain time.
- In Medium Position the watch movement will run at medium speed.
- In Slower Position the watch movement will run at a slower speed. The timepiece will lose time.
MANDATORY CONDITION: The regulator lever RL must remain always, throughout its working field, pressed against the tip of the screw MS, due to the pressure made by the Swan Neck spring tensile strength. In this way the established adjustment position is firmly maintained.
This condition is never achieved by the Swan Neck of the Replicas throughout its working field, and we must be happy just with a cosmetically correct device. But no worries about because that doesn’t affect the well working of the watch movement.
1.2- CURRENT SWAN NECK DEVICES IN REPLICAS (January 2013)
In January 2013 the Swan Neck devices in replicas are exactly the same than the SN devices introduced in the new generation of replicas PAM from June 2011 either from H maker or from Noob factory
These Swan Neck devices of H maker, Noob and gen watches are showed in below FIGURES 3.a, 3.b, 4.a, 4.b, 5.a, 5.b
- GEN SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 3.a- THE GEN SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 3.b- THE GEN SWAN NECK DEVICE - DETAILS
- H MAKER SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 4.a- THE TYPICAL H MAKER SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 4.b- THE TYPICAL H MAKER SWAN NECK DEVICE - DETAILS
- NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 5.a- THE TYPICAL NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 5.b- THE TYPICAL NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK DEVICE - DETAILS
1.3- CORRECT LENGTH AND HEAD OF THE MICROMETRIC SCREW
1.3.1- MICROMETRIC SCREW LENGTH
Due to above mentioned working system it is easy to understand that the Micrometric Screw MS must have the length enough to achieve all positions from Faster to Slower throughout the regulation field.
FIGURES 6.a, 6.b, 6.c, 6.d. show some views of the gen micrometric screw of Goin’s PAM 114 watch
FIGURE 6.a – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
FIGURE 6.b – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
FIGURE 6.C – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
FIGURE 6.d – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
Nowadays (January 2013) the only Micrometric Screw MS in replicas which has the correct length is the H maker screw.
Noob factory screw is always short and it is very noticeable when you are observing a Noob 6497 movement fitted with Swan Neck device.
The different length is showed in the FIGURE 6.e. You can see that the length of a Noob replica screw is clearly shorter in comparison with H maker and gen screws.
FIGURE 6.e- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MICROMETRIC SCREWS: GEN, H maker, NOOB factory
1.3.2- MICROMETRIC SCREW HEAD
All people are always talking about the length, but the head of the SN screw is also very different in Noob replicas.
As you can see in the FIGURE 6.e Noob screw head is clearly shorter in comparison with H maker and gen screw heads.
There is another feature in the gen that replicas have not. The gen screw head has a slot for regulation and besides it has usually two holes in order to introduce a needle to make the adjustment of the screw.
You can see these holes in FIGURE 6.e.
1.3.3- CONCLUSIONS ABOUT MICROMETRIC SCREW IMPROVEMENTS
H maker Micrometric Screw
H maker screws only would need to get the holes for regulation. H maker’s thread length and head shape are correct.
Noob factory Micrometric Screw
Noob screws would need to be completely changed, because neither the thread length nor the head shape are correct. Both are shorter in comparison with the gen screw
There are no modds to change the aspect of the Noob Micrometric Screws. If you want to get a better screw you would need getting an H maker screw or better to get a gen one.
1.4- THE SHAPE OF THE SWAN NECK SPRING
There are some differences in the Swan Neck spring of H maker and Noob factory when we make comparisons with the gen. The more noticeable differences are located in the support of the spring. When we are talking about Swan Neck spring support we mean the wider part where the spring has the two screws to be fixed to the Balance Cock of the movement. This is one of the most different parts when we make comparisons.
As we will see below, there are also general shape differences and mainly differences at the tip of the spring, but they are no noticeable in practice. In H maker there is even a difference in the distance between the holes of the support screws, and Noob has a wrong position.
- H MAKER SWAN NECK SPRING
In below FIGURE 7 you can see the comparison between the gen and H maker Swan Neck spring.
The differences indicated in the FIGURE 7 are as follows:
1-The end of the gen spring support has a concave curved shape of about 3mm of radius (see FIGURE 9). The end of the H maker spring support is completely flat. It is quite noticeable and we would need a modification filing the end of the support with a round file or another tool of 6mm of diameter.
2-The inner part of the spring support is almost the same in gen and in H maker. No noticeable differences.
3- The general shape of the spring is almost the same in gen and in H maker. No noticeable differences.
4- The tip shape of the spring has noticeable difference in the draw and it is shorter in the replica, but they are almost no noticeable in practice. Modifications are not worth.
5- The distance between support screws is shorter in the rep. It is very noticeable in the draw but it is no noticeable in practice. There is no possible modification and it is no necessary IMO.
FIGURE 7- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SWAN NECK SPRING GEN AND H MAKER
- NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK SPRING
In below FIGURE 8.a you can see the comparison between the gen and Noob factory Swan Neck spring.
The differences indicated in the FIGURE 8.a are as follows:
1-The end of the gen spring support has a concave curved shape of about 3mm of radius (see FIGURE 9). The end of the Noob spring support is even convex and has rounded coins. It is a difference very noticeable and we would need a modification filing the end of the support with a round file or another tool of 6mm of diameter.
2-The inner part of the spring support is completely different as you can see in the pic. There is a great lack of material. It is a noticeable difference but, unfortunately, there is no solution.
3- The general shape of the Noob spring has more differences than the H maker. But these differences are no noticeable in practice. We could deform a little the part of the spring marked by the “3†in order to make it more curved like the gen. Because with this curved shape the spring is about parallel to the inner of the case.
4- The tip shape of the spring has noticeable difference in the draw and it is shorter in the replica, but they are almost no noticeable in practice. Modifications are not worth.
The distance between support screws is the same in Noob and gen.
FIGURE 8.a- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SWAN NECK SPRING GEN AND NOOB FACTIRY
Different position of Noob Swan Neck spring
The Noob Swan neck spring has another flaw in its position on the Balance Cock. Although there is a substantial difference with the gen, this flaw is not noticeable in practice. In below FIGURE 8.b it is showed the position differences between the Noob SN spring (orange contour) and the gen (red contour). This difference has already been announced by marlin in this post:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1298537&postcount=552
FIGURE 8.b- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NOB & GEN SWAN NECK SPRING POSITIONS IN THE BALANCE COCK
This difference has not an easy correction by a modification, but since this difference is not noticeable, it is not worth the job.
1.4.1- POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS IN THE SWAN NECK SPRING
The main modification to make is the concave curved shape at the end of the spring support. In order to have a correct dimension of the curved shape we will determine the radius of the end of the gen spring support by a pic of the gen device and making a comparison, knowing that the diameter of the Incabloc ring is 4,1mm.
You can see the result in below FIGURE 9. As showed the end of the gen support has a curved shape with a diameter of 6mm, therefore a radius of 3mm
FIGURE 9- MEASURING THE RADIUS OF THE END OF GEN SPRING SUPPORT
Knowing the correct shape and the appropriate radius we could get a correct end shape of Swan Neck spring supports following indications in below FIGURE 10
FIGURE 10- POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS IN SWAN NECK SPRING
- H MAKER SN SPRING MODIFICATIONS
The main modification is to file the end of the spring support by a file or another toll of 6mm of diameter
The shape is very similar and it really is not worth making modifications
- NOOB FACTORY SN SPRING MODIFICATIONS
The main modification is to file the end of the spring support by a file or another tool of 6mm of diameter
The general shape is very similar and it really is not worth making modifications. Anyway, we could deform the part of the spring marled with a “3†in order to make it more curved and similar to the gen.
Brass alloy material of Noob SN Spring
As already said by marlin (http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1297763&postcount=550 & http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1298537&postcount=552 ) Noob spring is made of some Brass alloy, because when you shave the Noob spring to get the correct shape, yellow Brass colour come to the surface.
We can see this colour in a shaved Noob SN spring by omgiv:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/111-modified-movement-131710?p=1293719
In below FIGURE 11 you have the enlarged pic of this shaved SN spring
FIGURE 11- BRASS ALLOY YELLOW MATERIAL OF NOOB SWAN NECK SPRING
Although this yellow colour of Brass material is not noticeable in real size, marlin has proposed a mod by nickel plated it and then hit it with some platinum plating
You can see the result of marlin’s mod in FIGURE 12. This is an almost perfect mod.
FIGURE 12- NOOB SWAN NECK SPRING MODIFIED BY MARLIN AND PLATED
1.5- COSMETIC APPEARANCE OF THE WHOLE SWAN NECK DEVICE
We must remember here the MANDATORY CONDITION exposed in Section 1.1:
MANDATORY CONDITION: The Regulator Lever RL must remain always, throughout its working field, pressed against the tip of the screw MS, due to the pressure made by the Swan Neck spring tensile strength. In this way the established adjustment position is firmly maintained.
This condition is never achieved by the Swan Neck of the Replicas throughout its working field, and we must be happy just with a cosmetically correct device. But no worries about because that doesn’t affect the well working of the watch movement.
It effectively is no worth to have a correct SN spring shape and micrometric screw if we have not got the above Mandatory Condition. Indeed, if there is some gap either between the tip of the screw and the Regulator Lever or between the tip of the SN spring and the Regulator Lever (or both) it will be as noticeable as a bad shape or short screw.
Therefore we must assure that the whole Swan Neck device has a cosmetic appearance getting the Mandatory Condition and having no gaps.
Usually reps, and mainly Noob ones, don’t have a cosmetic appearance of SN device, but we could get this correct appearance following the steps indicated in Section 16 of this thread:
“SWAN NECK†(Part II) – Does it work in replicas?
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swan-neck-part-ii-does-84847?p=831646
Section16 - HOW TO MAKE THE REGULATION ADJUSTMENT IN A MOVEMENT WITH SWAN NECK DEVICE DEFECTIVE OR THAT DOESN’T WORK PROPERLY THROUGHOUT THE REGULATION WORKING FIELD
16.1 - HOW TO MAKE A NORMAL REGULATION ADJUSTMENT
16.2 - HOW TO MAKE A COSMETIC AND SEMI-FUNCTIONAL REGULATION ADJUSTEMENT
Following above mentioned system we could get a cosmetic appearance of the whole Swan Neck device in our replicas.
1.6- EXAMPLES OF SWAN NECK SPRING SHAPE AND MICROMETRIC SCREW MODIFICATIONS
You can find in below FIGURE 13 some examples of the current modifications made by modders in the replicas concerning Swan Neck spring end shape and longer micrometric screw. Modders are goin, marlin and omgiv, last pic is from an unknown modder.
FIGURE 13- EXAMPLES OF SWAN NECK SPRING SHAPE AND MICROMETRIC SCREW MODIFICATIONS
2- IMPROVEMENTS IN INCABLOC SHOCK-ABSORBER SYSTEM
The Swiss company INCABLOC S.A. produces a Shock-absorber system also called Incabloc, to support the jewels of the Balance Wheel pivots, which is installed in many watch movements.
http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en
FIGURE 14- PARTS OF INCABLOCK SHOCK-ABSORBER SYSTEM
You can see in above FIGURE 14 two important parts to be considered in replica manufacture. The BLOCK which supports all other elements and the LYRE-SPRING
which actually is the shock absorption element.
In the Incabloc of Manual Panerai movements, either the Block or the Lyre-spring have a shape specially customized for Panerai watches.
The customized Incablock comes obviously with all gen Panerai watches, but at this moment (February 2013) all standard PAM replicas comes with a standard shape Incabloc.
In FIGURE 15 is showed the standard shape Incabloc system in replicas and the customized shape Incabloc system of a gen Panerai. There are several important differences that we will see below in this Section.
FIGURE 15- THE GEN PANERAI INCABLOC AND THE STANDARD INCABLOC IN PAM REPLICAS
2.1- THE “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC UPPER SLOT
You can see in above FIGURE 15 that the standard Incabloc in replicas has a straight “I†shaped upper slot in the Block, whereas the PAM Incabloc has a “Y†shaped upper slot in the Block as showed in below FIGURE 16
FIGURE 16- THE GEN PANERAI “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC BLOCK
Many people think that the “Y†shape are two flat surfaces cut in the corners of the Incabloc Block, but it really is a complex group of curved shape surfaces following the same outline of the Block ring. That complex curved shape surfaces are showed in FIGURE 17, where we can see all surfaces outlined in orange.
FIGURE 17- THE COMPLEX “Y†SHAPED SURFACES OF GEN INCABLOC BLOCK
In below FIGURE 18 we are indicating the radius measurement of the curved shape “Y†of the Panerai gen Incabloc Block slot. The result is a diameter of 2,5mm and therefore a radius of 1,25mm
FIGURE 18- THE RADIUS OF THE CURVED â€Y†SHAPE IN GEN PANERAI INCABLOC BLOCK
As above seen the curved “Y†shape of Gen Incabloc Block has a radius of 1,25mm. This is the radius at the bottom part of the Block ring, because the radius at the upper surface is higher as you can see in FIGURE 18.
2.2- THE TWO INNER NOTCHES OF THE INCABLOC BLOCK
To perform the absorption function the Incabloc system features a spring lyre shaped that you can see in FIGURE 14. This Lyre-spring is hinged to the Block of the system, which prevents one for losing it when, for example, it is opened for oiling. When the Lyre-spring is opened is placed in the position showed in FIGURE 19 at left side.
FIGURE 19- OPENING GEN INCABLOC LYRE-SPRING HINGED IN THE BLOCK TO OILING
To reach this open position the Lyre-spring needs, when it turns, a free space in the Block. In order to get this free space, there are two notches in the inner part of the gen Block ring. You can see both notches marked in yellow on below FIGURES 20.a and 20.b
This feature of PAM gen Incabloc Block is very unknown and I have never heard about that in replicas world.
FIGURA 20.a- INNER NOTCHES IN GEN PANERAI INCABLOC
FIGURA 20.b- INNER NOTCHES IN GEN PANERAI INCABLOC
2.3- THE INCABLOC LYRE-SPRING
When we are talking about Incabloc differences, people usually are referring just to the Incabloc Block “Y†shape. But the Lyre-spring has some differences as evident as “Y†shape in Incabloc Block ring.
FIGURE 21- INCABLOC BLOCK AND LYRE-SPRING GEN-REP COMPARISON
As you easily can see there in above FIGURE 21 and below FIGURE 22 the gen Lyre-spring and the rep one have noticeable differences.
FIGURE 22- INCABLOC LYRE-SPRING GEN-REP COMPARISON
The rep Lyre-spring has a longer “hinge-tongue†and the central circular shapes are more pronounced with a smaller radius.
2.4- POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS IN INCABLOC BLOCK AND LYRE-SPRING_
2.4.1- “Y†SHAPE IN INCABLOC BLOCK SLOT
Nowadays the modders are making good jobs of modification in Incabloc devices by filling the corners of the Incabloc Block Ring with as a “Y†shape, as you can see in below FIGURES 23.a, 23.b, 23.c, 23.d and 23.e. Sometimes they are using gen parts to make the modification.
FIGURE 23.a- MODIFICATIONS TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY GOIN (mods right and left side – using Gen parts center)
In above FIGURE 23.a you can see three mods by goin. At the right and left side two mods using modified rep Incabloc filled with curved shape like the gen but using the rep Lyre-spring and a longer screw. At the center a Gen Incabloc device and Lyre-spring and a gen screw.
FIGURE 23.b- MODIFICATION TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN A NOOB REPLICA BY GOIN
In above FIGURE 23.b you can see a mod by goin using modified rep Incabloc filled with curved shape like the gen but using the rep Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape.
FIGURE 23.c- MODIFICATIONS TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY MARLIN (mods right and left side – using Gen parts center)
In above FIGURE 23.c you can see three mods by marlin. At the right and left side two mods using modified rep Incabloc filled with curved shape like the gen but using the rep Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape. At the center a Gen Incabloc device and Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape.
FIGURE 23.d- MODIFICATION TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY VACCUM (using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring)
In above FIGURE 23.d you can see a modd by vaccum using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring. Screw has not been changed.
FIGURE 23.e- MODIFICATION TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY OMGIV (using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring)
In above FIGURE 23.e you can see a modd by omgiv using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape.
As you can see above it is in practice almost impossible to make by a mod a correct “Y†curved shape like the gen due to the complexity and cost of this job. And it would be still more difficult to make the two inner notches.
2.4.2- LYRE-SPRING MODIFICATION POSSIBILITIES
There are no possibilities to modify the rep Lyre-spring to make it like gen spring. We cannot cut the tongue without remove the hinge tips, and we cannot get the less pronounced circular shapes of the gen spring.
Therefore to get an approach to the gen spring is impossible modifying the rep spring. If we want to have an accurate Lyre-spring we would need to install a gen Lyre-spring, no possible solution by mods.
Using a replica Lyre-spring (with a longer hinge-tongue) poses some problems to modify the Incabloc to get “Y†shape. If you go too deep in the filling, like the gen does, the tips of the hinge can surpass the Incabloc Block and the spring will leave its correct place.
That is very well explained by Marlin in this post:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1295067&postcount=37
Therefore if you use the replica Lyre-spring the Incabloc modification to get “Y†shape cannot be as deep as needed. Besides the replica Lyre-spring is a very noticeable flaw in my opinion.
All above mentioned about modifications to get gen appearance in Incabloc system are indicating that a complete approach to the gen is really impossible by modifications. Anyway, modders like marlin and goin are nowadays going very close to the gen devices.
2.4.3- THE CORRECT WAY TO GET THE GEN INCABLOC APPEARANCE WOULD BE THE OWN GEN INCABLOC
As above explained, there are no possibilities to get a gen like Lyre-spring by modification of the rep spring and there are few and expensive possibilities to get a correct Y shaped Block.
Threfore, it really would be economically more interesting to get a gen Incabloc Block and Lyre-spring and make a Franken Modd. And that seems to be the last trend in the market and the most foreseable future.
This is not a swap to be made for a newbie, but can be easily made by a modder. See this post by an expert modder like goin:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1243412&postcount=38
LINKS WITH MORE INFO ABOUT MODIFICATIONS
Panerai OPXI - Gen vs. Modified A6497-2 - Modified Incabloc – by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-panerai-opxi-113823
Modified PAM217 - by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-modified-pam217-131380?t=131380&highlight=PCTeam
A6497 Incabloc fix service – by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/a6497-incabloc-fix-114219
Modded Incabloc- by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1116893&postcount=6
New mod for 6497 movements – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/new-mod-for-103739?t=103739
If your a PAM 127 "Fiddy" freak like me then - CHECK THIS OUT – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-if-your-133121?t=133121&highlight=PCTeam
Lyre-spring rep vs. gen comparison. Adaptation to Incabloc modified – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1295067&postcount=37
Fully Modded Noob 127E All Asian mods – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/fully-modded-noob-132984?t=132984
Side by side OEM ETA vs. REP parts on the 6497 movement for Panerai watches - by marlin
http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/148743-side-by-side-oem-eta-vs-rep-parts-on-the-6497-movement-for-panerai-watches/
Vac 6497 Incabloc mod – by vaccum
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/vac-6497-incabloc-97930
Panerai PAM 111N can you spot the backside differences? – by Rogerthat
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam-111n-can-113851
Panerai 111 Modified Movement Complete – by omgiv
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/111-modified-movement-131710?p=1293719
As always this thread is open to be modified by the discussion, indications, observations and corrections of all RWI members.
Many thanks for your kind attention
ALE
AKNOWLEDGEMENT: Many thanks to RWI PCTeam’s members Goin, marlin and Rwolf for their kindness providing magnificient pics of their watches and mods and a lot of info about their jobs
*****************************
This thread is completed by the thread:
THREAD Part II
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part II)-Crown, Pin gasket, Gears , Wheels & Engravings – January 2013
In this thread The Last steps to the Gen Part II. We will deal with the last four indicated flaws, which are located in the Crown, CG and Movement gears and bridges.
January 2013
WARNING
We are studying the flaws of the best PAM replicas in order to know what are the last steps to make them almost like the gen. This thread is just a constructive criticism, because we consider these PAM replicas the most perfect in the market. Due to above mentioned, it is worth to announce these little flaws in order to inform makers and dealers about the last modifications to reach almost a 1:1 gen watch.
Most likely these corrections cannot be made at the same time and we will have to follow buying replicas of these watches. This is only a summary of the way to follow to the 1:1 gen. In the same way this study could be used as a MOD GUIDE for Modders and “do it yourself†people.
If we made this kind of analysis in other brand replicas, even the most accurate, surely we would find more flaws than in these Super PAM replicas. Therefore buy them like that without hesitation, because the following study is almost a microscopic analysis of merely noticeable flaws.
Neither these flaws nor the modifications will have influence on the working of the watch, they are just cosmetic flaws and cosmetic modifications.
In the same way, please bear in mind that we are talking about replicas 30 -50 times less expensive than a gen and we cannot get at this price level all characteristics and features 100% of the gen watch. Therefore the crystal could be a little less clear, general finish will not be as perfect as the magnificent gen finish, dial could be not as crisp and well defined as the gen, etc…
INTRODUCTION
As you know current replicas (October-November 2012) of PAM are very close to the gen watches.
Nowadays we consider one of the most perfect PAM replica the PAM 111 N-series V3 from Noob factory. Although the great quality of these replicas, there are several improvements pending to be introduced as follows:
- Correct Swan Neck micrometric Screw length and head
- Correct shape of Swan Neck Spring http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1168765&postcount=332
- Modifications to get “Y†shaped Incabloc http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-panerai-opxi-113823
- “Slim†crownhttp://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1156643&postcount=269
- Gasket for the CG Pin http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-kuvarsit-360-119090
- Improvements in: Gear train, Ratchet & Crown wheels and screws
- Improvement of OFFICINE PANERAI engraving on movement bridges
As above said, and we repeat it due to its importance, neither these flaws nor the modifications will have influence on the working of the watch, they are just cosmetic flaws and cosmetic modifications.
We will divide this study into two different Threads Par I & Part II :
THREAD Part I
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part I)–Swan Neck & Incabloc Modifications – Jan 2013
In this thread The Last Steps to the Gen Part I, we will deal with three first flaws, which are located in the movement and more concretely in the Swan Neck device and Incabloc Shock Protection System.
THREAD Part II
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part II)-Crown, Pin gasket, Gears, Wheels & Engravings - Jan 2103
In this thread The Last steps to the Gen Part II, we will deal with the last four indicated flaws, which are located in the Crown, CG and Movement Gear Train, Wheels and bridges.
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THREAD Part I
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part I) – Swan Neck & Incabloc Modifications – Jan 2013
AKNOWLEDGEMENT: Many thanks to RWI PCTeam’s members Goin, marlin and Rwolf for their kindness providing magnificient pics of their watches and mods and a lot of info about their jobs. Many of the magnificent gen pics are from the goin’s gen PAM 114 (goin courtesy)
1- IMPROVEMENTS IN SWAN NECK DEVICES
In order to understand appropriately below explanations about this matter, would be interesting to read before this Thread about Swan Neck devices:
“SWAN NECK†(Part I) – What is this? How does it work?
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swan-neck-part-what-thisi-84846.html?p=831645
Anyway we will include below a little Summary of the parts of this Swan Neck device working together with the Regulator of the watch, extracted from above mentioned thread.
1.1- WHAT IS A SWAN NECK, AND WHAT IS A SWAN NECK FOR ?
In the FIGURE 1 a Swan Neck device can be observed (circled in yellow) applied to a conventional regulator (circled in red). In that figure we are indicating the names that we will use for the Swan Neck and Regulator parts
FIGURE 1 - SWAN NECK DEVICE APPLIED TO A CONVENTIONAL REGULATOR
The “Swan Neck†device is an auxiliary device applied to the conventional regulator of a watch movement, to achieve a fine adjustment of the regulator position and assure the firm maintenance of this adjustment position once established.
The fine adjustment is performed by a micrometric screw MS that determines, with high precision, the position of the regulator lever RL, and a spring swan’s neck-shaped SN, that through its spring tensile strength (orange arrow) keeps the regulator lever RL pressed against the tip of the screw MS.
When you make a regulation adjustment, the Swan Neck device works, combined with the watch movement regulator, tightening or loosening the micrometric screw MS, and acts by moving the regulator lever RL, and at the same time it also moves the regulator head RH from Faster Position to Medium Position and to Lower Position and vice versa, as indicated in the FIGURE 2
FIGURE 2 – COMBINED WORKING SYSTEM OF THE SWAN NECK DEVICE AND THE CONVENTIONAL REGULATOR
- In Faster Position the watch movement will run at a faster speed. The timepiece will gain time.
- In Medium Position the watch movement will run at medium speed.
- In Slower Position the watch movement will run at a slower speed. The timepiece will lose time.
MANDATORY CONDITION: The regulator lever RL must remain always, throughout its working field, pressed against the tip of the screw MS, due to the pressure made by the Swan Neck spring tensile strength. In this way the established adjustment position is firmly maintained.
This condition is never achieved by the Swan Neck of the Replicas throughout its working field, and we must be happy just with a cosmetically correct device. But no worries about because that doesn’t affect the well working of the watch movement.
1.2- CURRENT SWAN NECK DEVICES IN REPLICAS (January 2013)
In January 2013 the Swan Neck devices in replicas are exactly the same than the SN devices introduced in the new generation of replicas PAM from June 2011 either from H maker or from Noob factory
These Swan Neck devices of H maker, Noob and gen watches are showed in below FIGURES 3.a, 3.b, 4.a, 4.b, 5.a, 5.b
- GEN SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 3.a- THE GEN SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 3.b- THE GEN SWAN NECK DEVICE - DETAILS
- H MAKER SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 4.a- THE TYPICAL H MAKER SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 4.b- THE TYPICAL H MAKER SWAN NECK DEVICE - DETAILS
- NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 5.a- THE TYPICAL NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK DEVICE
FIGURE 5.b- THE TYPICAL NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK DEVICE - DETAILS
1.3- CORRECT LENGTH AND HEAD OF THE MICROMETRIC SCREW
1.3.1- MICROMETRIC SCREW LENGTH
Due to above mentioned working system it is easy to understand that the Micrometric Screw MS must have the length enough to achieve all positions from Faster to Slower throughout the regulation field.
FIGURES 6.a, 6.b, 6.c, 6.d. show some views of the gen micrometric screw of Goin’s PAM 114 watch
FIGURE 6.a – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
FIGURE 6.b – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
FIGURE 6.C – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
FIGURE 6.d – GEN MICROMETRIC SCREW
Nowadays (January 2013) the only Micrometric Screw MS in replicas which has the correct length is the H maker screw.
Noob factory screw is always short and it is very noticeable when you are observing a Noob 6497 movement fitted with Swan Neck device.
The different length is showed in the FIGURE 6.e. You can see that the length of a Noob replica screw is clearly shorter in comparison with H maker and gen screws.
FIGURE 6.e- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MICROMETRIC SCREWS: GEN, H maker, NOOB factory
1.3.2- MICROMETRIC SCREW HEAD
All people are always talking about the length, but the head of the SN screw is also very different in Noob replicas.
As you can see in the FIGURE 6.e Noob screw head is clearly shorter in comparison with H maker and gen screw heads.
There is another feature in the gen that replicas have not. The gen screw head has a slot for regulation and besides it has usually two holes in order to introduce a needle to make the adjustment of the screw.
You can see these holes in FIGURE 6.e.
1.3.3- CONCLUSIONS ABOUT MICROMETRIC SCREW IMPROVEMENTS
H maker Micrometric Screw
H maker screws only would need to get the holes for regulation. H maker’s thread length and head shape are correct.
Noob factory Micrometric Screw
Noob screws would need to be completely changed, because neither the thread length nor the head shape are correct. Both are shorter in comparison with the gen screw
There are no modds to change the aspect of the Noob Micrometric Screws. If you want to get a better screw you would need getting an H maker screw or better to get a gen one.
1.4- THE SHAPE OF THE SWAN NECK SPRING
There are some differences in the Swan Neck spring of H maker and Noob factory when we make comparisons with the gen. The more noticeable differences are located in the support of the spring. When we are talking about Swan Neck spring support we mean the wider part where the spring has the two screws to be fixed to the Balance Cock of the movement. This is one of the most different parts when we make comparisons.
As we will see below, there are also general shape differences and mainly differences at the tip of the spring, but they are no noticeable in practice. In H maker there is even a difference in the distance between the holes of the support screws, and Noob has a wrong position.
- H MAKER SWAN NECK SPRING
In below FIGURE 7 you can see the comparison between the gen and H maker Swan Neck spring.
The differences indicated in the FIGURE 7 are as follows:
1-The end of the gen spring support has a concave curved shape of about 3mm of radius (see FIGURE 9). The end of the H maker spring support is completely flat. It is quite noticeable and we would need a modification filing the end of the support with a round file or another tool of 6mm of diameter.
2-The inner part of the spring support is almost the same in gen and in H maker. No noticeable differences.
3- The general shape of the spring is almost the same in gen and in H maker. No noticeable differences.
4- The tip shape of the spring has noticeable difference in the draw and it is shorter in the replica, but they are almost no noticeable in practice. Modifications are not worth.
5- The distance between support screws is shorter in the rep. It is very noticeable in the draw but it is no noticeable in practice. There is no possible modification and it is no necessary IMO.
FIGURE 7- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SWAN NECK SPRING GEN AND H MAKER
- NOOB FACTORY SWAN NECK SPRING
In below FIGURE 8.a you can see the comparison between the gen and Noob factory Swan Neck spring.
The differences indicated in the FIGURE 8.a are as follows:
1-The end of the gen spring support has a concave curved shape of about 3mm of radius (see FIGURE 9). The end of the Noob spring support is even convex and has rounded coins. It is a difference very noticeable and we would need a modification filing the end of the support with a round file or another tool of 6mm of diameter.
2-The inner part of the spring support is completely different as you can see in the pic. There is a great lack of material. It is a noticeable difference but, unfortunately, there is no solution.
3- The general shape of the Noob spring has more differences than the H maker. But these differences are no noticeable in practice. We could deform a little the part of the spring marked by the “3†in order to make it more curved like the gen. Because with this curved shape the spring is about parallel to the inner of the case.
4- The tip shape of the spring has noticeable difference in the draw and it is shorter in the replica, but they are almost no noticeable in practice. Modifications are not worth.
The distance between support screws is the same in Noob and gen.
FIGURE 8.a- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SWAN NECK SPRING GEN AND NOOB FACTIRY
Different position of Noob Swan Neck spring
The Noob Swan neck spring has another flaw in its position on the Balance Cock. Although there is a substantial difference with the gen, this flaw is not noticeable in practice. In below FIGURE 8.b it is showed the position differences between the Noob SN spring (orange contour) and the gen (red contour). This difference has already been announced by marlin in this post:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1298537&postcount=552
FIGURE 8.b- DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NOB & GEN SWAN NECK SPRING POSITIONS IN THE BALANCE COCK
This difference has not an easy correction by a modification, but since this difference is not noticeable, it is not worth the job.
1.4.1- POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS IN THE SWAN NECK SPRING
The main modification to make is the concave curved shape at the end of the spring support. In order to have a correct dimension of the curved shape we will determine the radius of the end of the gen spring support by a pic of the gen device and making a comparison, knowing that the diameter of the Incabloc ring is 4,1mm.
You can see the result in below FIGURE 9. As showed the end of the gen support has a curved shape with a diameter of 6mm, therefore a radius of 3mm
FIGURE 9- MEASURING THE RADIUS OF THE END OF GEN SPRING SUPPORT
Knowing the correct shape and the appropriate radius we could get a correct end shape of Swan Neck spring supports following indications in below FIGURE 10
FIGURE 10- POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS IN SWAN NECK SPRING
- H MAKER SN SPRING MODIFICATIONS
The main modification is to file the end of the spring support by a file or another toll of 6mm of diameter
The shape is very similar and it really is not worth making modifications
- NOOB FACTORY SN SPRING MODIFICATIONS
The main modification is to file the end of the spring support by a file or another tool of 6mm of diameter
The general shape is very similar and it really is not worth making modifications. Anyway, we could deform the part of the spring marled with a “3†in order to make it more curved and similar to the gen.
Brass alloy material of Noob SN Spring
As already said by marlin (http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1297763&postcount=550 & http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1298537&postcount=552 ) Noob spring is made of some Brass alloy, because when you shave the Noob spring to get the correct shape, yellow Brass colour come to the surface.
We can see this colour in a shaved Noob SN spring by omgiv:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/111-modified-movement-131710?p=1293719
In below FIGURE 11 you have the enlarged pic of this shaved SN spring
FIGURE 11- BRASS ALLOY YELLOW MATERIAL OF NOOB SWAN NECK SPRING
Although this yellow colour of Brass material is not noticeable in real size, marlin has proposed a mod by nickel plated it and then hit it with some platinum plating
You can see the result of marlin’s mod in FIGURE 12. This is an almost perfect mod.
FIGURE 12- NOOB SWAN NECK SPRING MODIFIED BY MARLIN AND PLATED
1.5- COSMETIC APPEARANCE OF THE WHOLE SWAN NECK DEVICE
We must remember here the MANDATORY CONDITION exposed in Section 1.1:
MANDATORY CONDITION: The Regulator Lever RL must remain always, throughout its working field, pressed against the tip of the screw MS, due to the pressure made by the Swan Neck spring tensile strength. In this way the established adjustment position is firmly maintained.
This condition is never achieved by the Swan Neck of the Replicas throughout its working field, and we must be happy just with a cosmetically correct device. But no worries about because that doesn’t affect the well working of the watch movement.
It effectively is no worth to have a correct SN spring shape and micrometric screw if we have not got the above Mandatory Condition. Indeed, if there is some gap either between the tip of the screw and the Regulator Lever or between the tip of the SN spring and the Regulator Lever (or both) it will be as noticeable as a bad shape or short screw.
Therefore we must assure that the whole Swan Neck device has a cosmetic appearance getting the Mandatory Condition and having no gaps.
Usually reps, and mainly Noob ones, don’t have a cosmetic appearance of SN device, but we could get this correct appearance following the steps indicated in Section 16 of this thread:
“SWAN NECK†(Part II) – Does it work in replicas?
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swan-neck-part-ii-does-84847?p=831646
Section16 - HOW TO MAKE THE REGULATION ADJUSTMENT IN A MOVEMENT WITH SWAN NECK DEVICE DEFECTIVE OR THAT DOESN’T WORK PROPERLY THROUGHOUT THE REGULATION WORKING FIELD
16.1 - HOW TO MAKE A NORMAL REGULATION ADJUSTMENT
16.2 - HOW TO MAKE A COSMETIC AND SEMI-FUNCTIONAL REGULATION ADJUSTEMENT
Following above mentioned system we could get a cosmetic appearance of the whole Swan Neck device in our replicas.
1.6- EXAMPLES OF SWAN NECK SPRING SHAPE AND MICROMETRIC SCREW MODIFICATIONS
You can find in below FIGURE 13 some examples of the current modifications made by modders in the replicas concerning Swan Neck spring end shape and longer micrometric screw. Modders are goin, marlin and omgiv, last pic is from an unknown modder.
FIGURE 13- EXAMPLES OF SWAN NECK SPRING SHAPE AND MICROMETRIC SCREW MODIFICATIONS
2- IMPROVEMENTS IN INCABLOC SHOCK-ABSORBER SYSTEM
The Swiss company INCABLOC S.A. produces a Shock-absorber system also called Incabloc, to support the jewels of the Balance Wheel pivots, which is installed in many watch movements.
http://www.incabloc.ch/incabloc_en
FIGURE 14- PARTS OF INCABLOCK SHOCK-ABSORBER SYSTEM
You can see in above FIGURE 14 two important parts to be considered in replica manufacture. The BLOCK which supports all other elements and the LYRE-SPRING
which actually is the shock absorption element.
In the Incabloc of Manual Panerai movements, either the Block or the Lyre-spring have a shape specially customized for Panerai watches.
The customized Incablock comes obviously with all gen Panerai watches, but at this moment (February 2013) all standard PAM replicas comes with a standard shape Incabloc.
In FIGURE 15 is showed the standard shape Incabloc system in replicas and the customized shape Incabloc system of a gen Panerai. There are several important differences that we will see below in this Section.
FIGURE 15- THE GEN PANERAI INCABLOC AND THE STANDARD INCABLOC IN PAM REPLICAS
2.1- THE “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC UPPER SLOT
You can see in above FIGURE 15 that the standard Incabloc in replicas has a straight “I†shaped upper slot in the Block, whereas the PAM Incabloc has a “Y†shaped upper slot in the Block as showed in below FIGURE 16
FIGURE 16- THE GEN PANERAI “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC BLOCK
Many people think that the “Y†shape are two flat surfaces cut in the corners of the Incabloc Block, but it really is a complex group of curved shape surfaces following the same outline of the Block ring. That complex curved shape surfaces are showed in FIGURE 17, where we can see all surfaces outlined in orange.
FIGURE 17- THE COMPLEX “Y†SHAPED SURFACES OF GEN INCABLOC BLOCK
In below FIGURE 18 we are indicating the radius measurement of the curved shape “Y†of the Panerai gen Incabloc Block slot. The result is a diameter of 2,5mm and therefore a radius of 1,25mm
FIGURE 18- THE RADIUS OF THE CURVED â€Y†SHAPE IN GEN PANERAI INCABLOC BLOCK
As above seen the curved “Y†shape of Gen Incabloc Block has a radius of 1,25mm. This is the radius at the bottom part of the Block ring, because the radius at the upper surface is higher as you can see in FIGURE 18.
2.2- THE TWO INNER NOTCHES OF THE INCABLOC BLOCK
To perform the absorption function the Incabloc system features a spring lyre shaped that you can see in FIGURE 14. This Lyre-spring is hinged to the Block of the system, which prevents one for losing it when, for example, it is opened for oiling. When the Lyre-spring is opened is placed in the position showed in FIGURE 19 at left side.
FIGURE 19- OPENING GEN INCABLOC LYRE-SPRING HINGED IN THE BLOCK TO OILING
To reach this open position the Lyre-spring needs, when it turns, a free space in the Block. In order to get this free space, there are two notches in the inner part of the gen Block ring. You can see both notches marked in yellow on below FIGURES 20.a and 20.b
This feature of PAM gen Incabloc Block is very unknown and I have never heard about that in replicas world.
FIGURA 20.a- INNER NOTCHES IN GEN PANERAI INCABLOC
FIGURA 20.b- INNER NOTCHES IN GEN PANERAI INCABLOC
2.3- THE INCABLOC LYRE-SPRING
When we are talking about Incabloc differences, people usually are referring just to the Incabloc Block “Y†shape. But the Lyre-spring has some differences as evident as “Y†shape in Incabloc Block ring.
FIGURE 21- INCABLOC BLOCK AND LYRE-SPRING GEN-REP COMPARISON
As you easily can see there in above FIGURE 21 and below FIGURE 22 the gen Lyre-spring and the rep one have noticeable differences.
FIGURE 22- INCABLOC LYRE-SPRING GEN-REP COMPARISON
The rep Lyre-spring has a longer “hinge-tongue†and the central circular shapes are more pronounced with a smaller radius.
2.4- POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS IN INCABLOC BLOCK AND LYRE-SPRING_
2.4.1- “Y†SHAPE IN INCABLOC BLOCK SLOT
Nowadays the modders are making good jobs of modification in Incabloc devices by filling the corners of the Incabloc Block Ring with as a “Y†shape, as you can see in below FIGURES 23.a, 23.b, 23.c, 23.d and 23.e. Sometimes they are using gen parts to make the modification.
FIGURE 23.a- MODIFICATIONS TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY GOIN (mods right and left side – using Gen parts center)
In above FIGURE 23.a you can see three mods by goin. At the right and left side two mods using modified rep Incabloc filled with curved shape like the gen but using the rep Lyre-spring and a longer screw. At the center a Gen Incabloc device and Lyre-spring and a gen screw.
FIGURE 23.b- MODIFICATION TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN A NOOB REPLICA BY GOIN
In above FIGURE 23.b you can see a mod by goin using modified rep Incabloc filled with curved shape like the gen but using the rep Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape.
FIGURE 23.c- MODIFICATIONS TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY MARLIN (mods right and left side – using Gen parts center)
In above FIGURE 23.c you can see three mods by marlin. At the right and left side two mods using modified rep Incabloc filled with curved shape like the gen but using the rep Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape. At the center a Gen Incabloc device and Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape.
FIGURE 23.d- MODIFICATION TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY VACCUM (using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring)
In above FIGURE 23.d you can see a modd by vaccum using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring. Screw has not been changed.
FIGURE 23.e- MODIFICATION TO GET “Y†SHAPED INCABLOC IN REPLICAS BY OMGIV (using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring)
In above FIGURE 23.e you can see a modd by omgiv using a gen Incabloc and Lyre-spring, long screw and Swan Neck spring modified end shape.
As you can see above it is in practice almost impossible to make by a mod a correct “Y†curved shape like the gen due to the complexity and cost of this job. And it would be still more difficult to make the two inner notches.
2.4.2- LYRE-SPRING MODIFICATION POSSIBILITIES
There are no possibilities to modify the rep Lyre-spring to make it like gen spring. We cannot cut the tongue without remove the hinge tips, and we cannot get the less pronounced circular shapes of the gen spring.
Therefore to get an approach to the gen spring is impossible modifying the rep spring. If we want to have an accurate Lyre-spring we would need to install a gen Lyre-spring, no possible solution by mods.
Using a replica Lyre-spring (with a longer hinge-tongue) poses some problems to modify the Incabloc to get “Y†shape. If you go too deep in the filling, like the gen does, the tips of the hinge can surpass the Incabloc Block and the spring will leave its correct place.
That is very well explained by Marlin in this post:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1295067&postcount=37
Therefore if you use the replica Lyre-spring the Incabloc modification to get “Y†shape cannot be as deep as needed. Besides the replica Lyre-spring is a very noticeable flaw in my opinion.
All above mentioned about modifications to get gen appearance in Incabloc system are indicating that a complete approach to the gen is really impossible by modifications. Anyway, modders like marlin and goin are nowadays going very close to the gen devices.
2.4.3- THE CORRECT WAY TO GET THE GEN INCABLOC APPEARANCE WOULD BE THE OWN GEN INCABLOC
As above explained, there are no possibilities to get a gen like Lyre-spring by modification of the rep spring and there are few and expensive possibilities to get a correct Y shaped Block.
Threfore, it really would be economically more interesting to get a gen Incabloc Block and Lyre-spring and make a Franken Modd. And that seems to be the last trend in the market and the most foreseable future.
This is not a swap to be made for a newbie, but can be easily made by a modder. See this post by an expert modder like goin:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1243412&postcount=38
LINKS WITH MORE INFO ABOUT MODIFICATIONS
Panerai OPXI - Gen vs. Modified A6497-2 - Modified Incabloc – by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-panerai-opxi-113823
Modified PAM217 - by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-modified-pam217-131380?t=131380&highlight=PCTeam
A6497 Incabloc fix service – by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/a6497-incabloc-fix-114219
Modded Incabloc- by goin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1116893&postcount=6
New mod for 6497 movements – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/new-mod-for-103739?t=103739
If your a PAM 127 "Fiddy" freak like me then - CHECK THIS OUT – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-if-your-133121?t=133121&highlight=PCTeam
Lyre-spring rep vs. gen comparison. Adaptation to Incabloc modified – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1295067&postcount=37
Fully Modded Noob 127E All Asian mods – by marlin
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/fully-modded-noob-132984?t=132984
Side by side OEM ETA vs. REP parts on the 6497 movement for Panerai watches - by marlin
http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/148743-side-by-side-oem-eta-vs-rep-parts-on-the-6497-movement-for-panerai-watches/
Vac 6497 Incabloc mod – by vaccum
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/vac-6497-incabloc-97930
Panerai PAM 111N can you spot the backside differences? – by Rogerthat
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam-111n-can-113851
Panerai 111 Modified Movement Complete – by omgiv
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/111-modified-movement-131710?p=1293719
As always this thread is open to be modified by the discussion, indications, observations and corrections of all RWI members.
Many thanks for your kind attention
ALE
AKNOWLEDGEMENT: Many thanks to RWI PCTeam’s members Goin, marlin and Rwolf for their kindness providing magnificient pics of their watches and mods and a lot of info about their jobs
*****************************
This thread is completed by the thread:
THREAD Part II
The Last Steps to the Gen (Part II)-Crown, Pin gasket, Gears , Wheels & Engravings – January 2013
In this thread The Last steps to the Gen Part II. We will deal with the last four indicated flaws, which are located in the Crown, CG and Movement gears and bridges.
