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Worst fakes

Tucker

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I have a new signature: Tucker...wallowing in his "pit of ignorance."


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Rush

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29/5/16
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Here's my "miliaryspec" Bell & Ross lol. Also, check out the back "screws" printed on!

This is my very first rep, purchased close to 10 years ago. It actually still keeps pretty good time.

9951b5706d14dff45931852b5de55918.jpg
212d3f3c68e7d997b8147cc94be3a3c4.jpg
 

loewenzahn

Mythical Poster
16/12/14
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I don't know if Rolex per se has a copyright on their design. But logically, they must have, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to do something against replicas.
As I wrote, Rolex acts against counterfeits based on their brand logo, nothing else. And while we're at it, the design of the submariner was once taken from Blancpain's FiftyFathoms.
Here's a read, if you're inclined: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/a-historical-look-at-the-blancpain-fifty-fathoms-live-photos
 

tripdog

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I have a new signature: Tucker...wallowing in his "pit of ignorance."


Sent from my iPhone using RWI


Y'all ain't nuttin' but a dumb ass.
 

Cavemax

Active Member
28/5/16
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I have a new signature: Tucker...wallowing in his "pit of ignorance."


Sent from my iPhone using RWI
And it was so important to put who wrote that sentence and what his occupation is, right? I don't understand your problem, especially with that "19 Year-Old Law Student and Race Car Driver". Fact is, you insisted that it is a homage, without even bothering reading all my arguments or discussing. But at least get it right, I am not a Race Car driver, but a normal test driver. And don't forget to edit my age every year.
But why do I even care, you're just wasting my time. Cheers mate! :drinks_cheers:

As I wrote, Rolex acts against counterfeits based on their brand logo, nothing else. And while we're at it, the design of the submariner was once taken from Blancpain's FiftyFathoms.
Here's a read, if you're inclined: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/a-historical-look-at-the-blancpain-fifty-fathoms-live-photos
Well I don't know where you have the information that Rolex acts only based on their logo. However, if the SBB and Mondaine were capable of copyrighting their watch with the mentioned "3 dimensional brand and design copyright", I am pretty sure that Rolex, AP and the other big brands have done that too. Nevertheless, your linked article was very interesting. Looks like that just 2 days ago a new tribute to the Fifty Fathoms was announced: http://www.blancpain.com/en/news/tribute-fifty-fathoms-mil-spec-only-watch-unique-piece
 

Tucker

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And it was so important to put who wrote that sentence and what his occupation is, right? I don't understand your problem, especially with that "19 Year-Old Law Student and Race Car Driver". Fact is, you insisted that it is a homage, without even bothering reading all my arguments or discussing. But at least get it right, I am not a Race Car driver, but a normal test driver. And don't forget to edit my age every year.
Now you're just being mean.
 

muiramas

Aristocrat
18/1/17
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Just a quick one here as I'm off - but a few points.

Swiss law has no application outside Switzerland. (Not part of EU)

The EU has laws on labelling country of origin, though it is much harder to apply those laws to a mechanical object - with a global supply chain on components, than it is to a apply to a piece of fruit. Swatch make a lot of stuff in China, though they would be allowed to claim their movements are 'Swiss'.

The design of a watch CANNOT be copyrighted - no it can't. Essentially it's a round or rectangular object which tells the time. There are mechanisms which can be regarded as unique and therefore patented, gas escape valve for example, but there are no legal impediments to making a direct copy (Ginault) or being heavily inspired by (Squale, Steinhart, and so on and on and on...)

I've read, incorrectly, that much of that is due to expired Rolex patents, but that's just not true. Take the Sub and let's look at what Rolex can't claim copyright on; round indexes (not unique) round face (not unique), Mercedes hands (not unique, and Mercedes may want a word about that if they could) 5 pointed crown (other brand marks, and crowns with 5 points), case shape (can't copyright a shape). So, that's the entire watch, apart from the movement, but that's another story and has its own limitations.

3D design copyright as mentioned above, I'm not so sure - I would say either the boat sailed on that one long ago, or it is not possible to say that something (now, or even recently) is unique enough to award protections to. The Apple case is unique, and by no means a benchmark or precedent. At that time they were in massive litigation with Samsung, and the last thing Apple wanted was to be shit talked in the press about ripping other people designs off, when at all costs they needed to be seen as the victim who had their ideas stolen, and that all they want to do is 'allow us to communicate with friends and family in new and exiting ways we never thought possible' (that Chiat Day copywriter makes me want to puke). It would have been cheaper to fight it, or push out a software update - but that's not what Apple wanted.

Comment above on the Sinn vs Breitling Navitimer - no. The Sinn version is not a homage, it's the real deal. When Breitling when bust in the late 70's the factory was broken up and sold off, and Sinn acquired the rights to a couple of Navitimer models, as well as a bunch of machines and parts. They still have the rights to use it, and some complication on movement supply which I cannot remember led them to use the same 7750 movement that Breitling use. Sinn also made it properly water resistant.

That didn't end up being quick, now I will be late.
 

tripdog

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Just a quick one here as I'm off - but a few points.

Swiss law has no application outside Switzerland. (Not part of EU)

The EU has laws on labelling country of origin, though it is much harder to apply those laws to a mechanical object - with a global supply chain on components, than it is to a apply to a piece of fruit. Swatch make a lot of stuff in China, though they would be allowed to claim their movements are 'Swiss'.

The design of a watch CANNOT be copyrighted - no it can't. Essentially it's a round or rectangular object which tells the time. There are mechanisms which can be regarded as unique and therefore patented, gas escape valve for example, but there are no legal impediments to making a direct copy (Ginault) or being heavily inspired by (Squale, Steinhart, and so on and on and on...)

I've read, incorrectly, that much of that is due to expired Rolex patents, but that's just not true. Take the Sub and let's look at what Rolex can't claim copyright on; round indexes (not unique) round face (not unique), Mercedes hands (not unique, and Mercedes may want a word about that if they could) 5 pointed crown (other brand marks, and crowns with 5 points), case shape (can't copyright a shape). So, that's the entire watch, apart from the movement, but that's another story and has its own limitations.

3D design copyright as mentioned above, I'm not so sure - I would say either the boat sailed on that one long ago, or it is not possible to say that something (now, or even recently) is unique enough to award protections to. The Apple case is unique, and by no means a benchmark or precedent. At that time they were in massive litigation with Samsung, and the last thing Apple wanted was to be shit talked in the press about ripping other people designs off, when at all costs they needed to be seen as the victim who had their ideas stolen, and that all they want to do is 'allow us to communicate with friends and family in new and exiting ways we never thought possible' (that Chiat Day copywriter makes me want to puke). It would have been cheaper to fight it, or push out a software update - but that's not what Apple wanted.

Comment above on the Sinn vs Breitling Navitimer - no. The Sinn version is not a homage, it's the real deal. When Breitling when bust in the late 70's the factory was broken up and sold off, and Sinn acquired the rights to a couple of Navitimer models, as well as a bunch of machines and parts. They still have the rights to use it, and some complication on movement supply which I cannot remember led them to use the same 7750 movement that Breitling use. Sinn also made it properly water resistant.

That didn't end up being quick, now I will be late.

Excellent post !

It's virtually impossible to copyright a design - it has to be unique - this is a well known fact and the source of a lot of frustration for companies.
 

ahaddad

Getting To Know The Place
19/12/16
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Lets keep it to worst fakes pics please...


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billtr96sn

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I'm enjoying this legal talk, I'm actually learning! Also, isn't it good for threads to digress sometimes?

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muiramas

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Lets keep it to worst fakes pics please...


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1. Where's yours?
2. Don't tell folks what to post - it stifles the board and limits exchange of thought.
 

Rx4Time

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Wow, this thread sure went off course. I enjoy seeing these mutant replicas, but the legal arguments are putting a damper on this enjoyment. Let's get some more of these freaks of nature up for all to enjoy!
 

nlikens1411

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3/2/17
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Ive bought a few bad ones in my time. Took me a while to figure it out.
 

MonsieurMax

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wt2-4.jpg
 

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Cavemax

Active Member
28/5/16
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Just a quick one here as I'm off - but a few points.

Swiss law has no application outside Switzerland. (Not part of EU)

The EU has laws on labelling country of origin, though it is much harder to apply those laws to a mechanical object - with a global supply chain on components, than it is to a apply to a piece of fruit. Swatch make a lot of stuff in China, though they would be allowed to claim their movements are 'Swiss'.

The design of a watch CANNOT be copyrighted - no it can't. Essentially it's a round or rectangular object which tells the time. There are mechanisms which can be regarded as unique and therefore patented, gas escape valve for example, but there are no legal impediments to making a direct copy (Ginault) or being heavily inspired by (Squale, Steinhart, and so on and on and on...)

I've read, incorrectly, that much of that is due to expired Rolex patents, but that's just not true. Take the Sub and let's look at what Rolex can't claim copyright on; round indexes (not unique) round face (not unique), Mercedes hands (not unique, and Mercedes may want a word about that if they could) 5 pointed crown (other brand marks, and crowns with 5 points), case shape (can't copyright a shape). So, that's the entire watch, apart from the movement, but that's another story and has its own limitations.

3D design copyright as mentioned above, I'm not so sure - I would say either the boat sailed on that one long ago, or it is not possible to say that something (now, or even recently) is unique enough to award protections to. The Apple case is unique, and by no means a benchmark or precedent. At that time they were in massive litigation with Samsung, and the last thing Apple wanted was to be shit talked in the press about ripping other people designs off, when at all costs they needed to be seen as the victim who had their ideas stolen, and that all they want to do is 'allow us to communicate with friends and family in new and exiting ways we never thought possible' (that Chiat Day copywriter makes me want to puke). It would have been cheaper to fight it, or push out a software update - but that's not what Apple wanted.

Comment above on the Sinn vs Breitling Navitimer - no. The Sinn version is not a homage, it's the real deal. When Breitling when bust in the late 70's the factory was broken up and sold off, and Sinn acquired the rights to a couple of Navitimer models, as well as a bunch of machines and parts. They still have the rights to use it, and some complication on movement supply which I cannot remember led them to use the same 7750 movement that Breitling use. Sinn also made it properly water resistant.

That didn't end up being quick, now I will be late.
Dear muiramas, where did you get that info, that Swiss law is not accepted outside its country? We are not part of the EU (thank god), but we have a lot of bilateral contracts. And because the intellectual property often is a backbone of a company, Switzerland accepts international design patents and the Swiss patents are accepted internationally. It's that easy. Do you think, just because we're not part of the EU, our laws aren't oriented internationally and vice versa? Internationally oriented law and contracts are essential to free markets, imports / exports etc.

Regarding the Swiss Made label and the "Swatch" problematic, I don't see any problems with the parts being made in China? The FHS mentions following points to fulfill the requirements of a "Swiss Made" label:
  1. "At least 60% of the production costs of a watch taken as a whole must be Swiss-based."
  2. "The movement must still contain at least 50% Swiss-made components in value (not in quantity) and at least 60% of the movement's production must be generated in Switzerland."
  3. "Last but not least, it also specifies that the technical development of a 'Swiss Made' watch and movement must be carried out in Switzerland. Smart watches are also included for the first time."
Personally, I don't see any problems with Swatch and their parts being manufactured in China.

However, I agree with you that basic stuff like round indexes and so on can not be copyrighted. This would lay down a huge limitation on the watch market. But this was never part of the discussion, but the design as a whole - and only this can be copyirighted by my mentioned "3 dimensional copyright". Take the famous glass bottle of Coca Cola - it is covered by this "3 dimensional copyright", and not only in Switzerland, but worldwide. But only a minority of registered 3 dimensional copyrights is freely accessible, so I am not able to check it for watches at the moment. However, to clear this up for once and all time, I've contacted Rolex' and AP's law center and our institute for intellectual property. As soon as I receive any kind of answer, I'll post it here.

Hmm, interesting point regarding the Sinn vs. Breitling topic. I didn't know that, I was just searching for examples of homage watches. And every website mentioned the Sinn being a homage to Breitling's Navitimer. Thanks for clearing that up!