I notice that the finish on the back of the inserts, both CAC and P&W, are unscathed -ruling out a chemical dip. Perhaps they are applying some sort of gel to the face of the insert and blasting it with UV.
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Where does Crownartcustoms get his inserts from?
- Thread starter Btadl1997
- Start date
I definitely don't know the answer, but I don't think it's a UV fade. If anything, I think they are applying a gel (or similar) to the BACK so they can do a chemical dip and/or sandblast without damaging the back.
Here's a picture of the back of one I was playing with that had some of the protection come off. I learned I need to use a product actually intended for that! Only mentioning because protecting the backside is not overly complicated with the right product.
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Yeah, the trick may well be protecting the back, whilst exposing the front. My other thought is that it is a thick solution/gel that is applied to the front with the insert in a bezel ring (or some sort of mock ring/protector), so you get the perfect protection to the back and sides, equivalent to sun fade, if that makes sense? That idea would work for blasting as well. Could just make a plate with a recess for the insert and blast over the top.
I'm not sure that the treatment isn't chemical, followed by a treatment to wear down the sand spray or finer : some pepsi fushia inserts make me doubt. I've tested several inserts. I noticed that depending on where they came from, they reacted in different ways. Different results are obtained with bleach or caustic soda. Some inserts react to cold bleach, others to hot bleach, all in different ways. Some, like the jkf, discolor unevenly. ....Milk inserts don't react. I tried boiling the bleach for several minutes and barely removed the shine. To age them, I finalized with wet 1000 paper; the paint is much more resistant than on the others, and has hardly moved.
Doesn't its secret lie in the quality of its base paint?
Doesn't its secret lie in the quality of its base paint?
Sounds like a great idea to me. Curious if Sugru or DIY silicone putty could work as the mold.
It also reminds me of an idea I had that involved a sacrificial or junk bezel assembly with a plug in the center of the insert... maybe I should glue a bezel assembly to a plate with a piece of PVC pipe in the middle. Kind of ghetto, but should at least it would work for blasting.
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YES! Exactly that! I wondered, if blasting, whether the silicone would be strong enough, hence thinking you'd get repeatability out of something metal but the ghetto version sounds good to me! Even a Clarke ring (or cheaper), for a 5513 or other, would last ages, you'd think, even with a fairly abrasive medium! Could even have a sacrificial plexi as the middle... $10-ish from Clark.
Silicone or similar rubber is pretty resistant to media blasting because it absorbs the energy of blasting media. More of it bounces off, where harder surfaces are easier etched.
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Good info, thank you. A slightly more malleable 'surround' would be ideal for not damaging an insert or rubbing the side colour off. My 4-digit inserts always seem super tight in their bezels.
I've been too busy with other with other stuff to provide any material updates, but in reference to vintage 1675 inserts, what are your thoughts on this aging?
-What do you like, or dislike?
-What would you change?
I think the CAC smokey fade is really cool looking, but it just looks very fake to me. Wanted to attempt something I thought would look more realistic.
-What do you like, or dislike?
-What would you change?
I think the CAC smokey fade is really cool looking, but it just looks very fake to me. Wanted to attempt something I thought would look more realistic.
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Which method did you end up using for this fade?
I will follow up with a play by how-to, but as a quick example, above was no bleach. I meant to make unleaded petro, but I accidentally created rocket fuel. It's my fault! But I wanted to show how cleanly it was (accidentally) stripped of everything. If I rubbed polish on it for 15 seconds, it would shine like platinum. Again, I'll give all the details but am currently out of town and away from the laboratory.
Certain chemicals remove dye more than others with much less destruction to the aluminum itself. Bleach seems to make for a crude finish with random splotches.
That was a very strong mixture of lye and water. It's also known as sodium hydroxide.
I was thinking it would start removing anodizing and dye after 30 seconds or minute... it did nothing. So I let it sit for a few minutes and everything disappeared before I had a chance to notice.
It's strong stuff, so use it cautiously and remember that less is more when fading a bezel. Much harder trying to add colors back!
- 5/4/24
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Right so was just about to ask why people were having difficulties with him. I've not had any luck being able to buy a fuschia faded 1675 insert from him - all seemed great (despite instantly brining up "communist slaves" in his first reply). But was shut down fairly soon even after saying I'd be happy to go for one of the samples he showed me. It was around the same time I requested to follow his instagram account too - not sure why he's so keen to not be followed. Seems strange - he's obviously incredibly good at what he does. I get that it must be a pain dealing with random people online, and I'm sure lots of people lead him on and then don't follow through with an actual order but still - very poor and surprising customer service from a skilled craftsman who could definitely be making a LOT more money if he was a bit nicer.
- 12/2/18
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Great job! I think we are getting closer to understanding the possible methods that are being used to create CAC inserts.I've been too busy with other with other stuff to provide any material updates, but in reference to vintage 1675 inserts, what are your thoughts on this aging?
-What do you like, or dislike?
-What would you change?
I think the CAC smokey fade is really cool looking, but it just looks very fake to me. Wanted to attempt something I thought would look more realistic.
I've been too busy with other with other stuff to provide any material updates, but in reference to vintage 1675 inserts, what are your thoughts on this aging?
-What do you like, or dislike?
-What would you change?
I think the CAC smokey fade is really cool looking, but it just looks very fake to me. Wanted to attempt something I thought would look more realistic.
Can you explain the method used for this fade? Looks amazing!
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What he calls 'genuine' inserts and which have an unnatural/color fade are Rolex inserts he's repainted. It took me a while to work it out, but the colors he uses on his 'gen' inserts along with the homogenous fading and the fact that the painted surface texture is all wrong means it can only be one thing - repainted Rolex inserts, which look exactly like his aftermarket inserts in terms of colors, fade and surface texture.
He probably considers it to be perfectly legal to describe them as 'genuine', and technically it is, but Rolex will not recognise them as being genuine Rolex inserts. As far as they're concerned they are no longer Rolex inserts once they've been repainted.
He probably considers it to be perfectly legal to describe them as 'genuine', and technically it is, but Rolex will not recognise them as being genuine Rolex inserts. As far as they're concerned they are no longer Rolex inserts once they've been repainted.
First, I think "homogenous fading" is the best description I've ever heard. But are you using paint and dye interchangeably? Anodizing usually works by building up a porous aluminum layer, and then dye is used to fill the pores. Paint is pretty much always a layer that simply sits on top.
Here's why I ask. I'm guessing he's using lye to "etch" the aluminum, and that is creating that specific texture. It removes the prior anodizing, but it generally makes a rougher surface texture too. On the other hand, it's extremely possible he is actually using a paint via Cerakote. I seem to recall he also makes custom painted guns for suburban housewives, so he's probably very familiar with painting hot pink CeraKote.
I've never owned one of these inserts, so I can't say I have knowledge up close to the actual texture and coloring . Would love your opinion in regards to my two theories above.
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You seem to have have more technical knowledge than I do on how he may be making these inserts, but the paint texture is very finely textured on his inserts, dappled, like a very fine mist spray, which seems to match the finish on Cerakote.
The way the color fades makes it looked like it's sprayed, not at all like pad printing or anodizing.
I totally agree. I've seen numerous faded ones that look sprayed. They don't look bad, but they look absolutely fake. I initially thought they were sandblasted, but I noticed the mist you mentioned in a few higher resolution pictures. That's when I started to think it could be Cerakote. It's technically possible to air brush dye onto the fresh anodized surface, but I don't think it would look like a mist or have such vibrant coloring. Leaves paint as a viable option.