Where does Crownartcustoms get his inserts from?

[WatchN3RD]

Media blasting is all about the grit. The physical shape of the media, the type of media, and the air pressure.
Just tested out my mini blaster like a drunk cowboy shooting his gun outside the saloon.
No air regulator on the line, no eye protection, no face mask, and probably hit it at 90-110psi, when it's likely to need something around 30-60psi.
Going that route vs. chemical etch should not be hard.
Just over-blasted for my first test, but I wasn't concerned about a bezel I'd never use. If I had a specific finish I needed, I'd simply lower the psi or change the media, or both.
You can put anything from pistachio shells to salt to sand to whatever. Anything media close enough will would if adjust the distance and psi.
I only did the red portion on this trash bezel

 

[Singapore9]

I think we may be talking cross purposes - it's not the colour 'texture', it's the insert blank that basically has grain, as if the top side is left unpolished after sand casting. Media blasting there is just stripping the surface and still giving a smooth-ish finish, just mottling the colour.

Have a look at agra1976 post on Xeramic's VRF guide, bottom of page 2:

Vintage Rolex Forum-INSERTS OF ROLEX AND TUDOR DIVING WATCHES OF THE ROLEX ACRYLIC ERA

Top work Xeramic. Well worth the wait!

www.tapatalk.com

 

[WatchN3RD]

No, I'm pretty sure I get it. That's why I specified, "probably hit it at 90-110psi, when it's likely to need something around 30-60psi."
From here, I'll have to experiment with something like 30psi, or switch from Aluminum Oxide to something softer like salt or soda. Obviously, high pressure with aluminum oxide was too much. It went right through the anodized layer and was taking off the dye too.
But looking at the bottom of page 2 of your link, they seem to have definitely used a softer media. To me, it also looks more like the media didn't have microscopically sharp edges. Under the scope, it looks like really bad hail damage vs. sharp cuts.
Again, I've only ever blasted one bezel insert (above), but I've got knowledge in other areas that I assume carries over here.

Now who wants to send me some test media and inserts?

 

[Singapore9]

I'd be interested to see some experiments and see what turns out... I would be pleased to contribute a load of AliX inserts (no idea where to start on the media) but I'm pretty confident the finish is done pre-dye, so it doesn't solve the rest of the problems of actually producing new inserts, unless you think this could be achieved post-dye i.e. on a 'finished' insert? I'd be a bit nervous trying it on a $300 CAC or GEN (smooth) insert.

 

[WatchN3RD]

I agree. I think a softer, rounder medium would do more "bouncing" or "denting," so it would probably work post-anodizing.
With that said, it also depends on the anodized layer. A vintage insert with fading would have most of the anodized layer already gone. A newer insert would have a much thicker anodized barrier before its protection and coloring were eaten away.

I'll probably try baking soda next, but I'm thinking a glass medium might be ideal. Again, I don't know. Aluminum oxide at 90psi is a little much though.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Also, I received my newest vintage 1675 insert from eBay via France. Bonjour, mes amis! I actually think it's damn good. It's a pinkish red with a light-ish royal blue.

 

[bigtiddygothgf]

Im pretty sure the texture is from whatever surface finish/coating is applied, it almost looks like orange peel, when you chemically fade an insert with bleach or such the texture disappears and you just get a matte finish which makes it pretty obvious that the patina is faked. Has anyone tried chemically fading an insert and then spraying it with a semi-gloss clearcoat?

 

[Singapore9]

I'd say the grainy texture of the Tudor insert is definitely 'in the metal', not the sealant/clear coat... My original thought was sand cast (or alike) and not machined/polished (adding to the fact it was 'the cheaper version'?) but blasting could be interesting for sure/an alternative but the 'additional process' doesn't fit with my 'cheaper' theory.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Im pretty sure the texture is from whatever surface finish/coating is applied, it almost looks like orange peel, when you chemically fade an insert with bleach or such the texture disappears and you just get a matte finish which makes it pretty obvious that the patina is faked. Has anyone tried chemically fading an insert and then spraying it with a semi-gloss clearcoat?

I have to achieve a matte finish, but you can't use regular aerosol clear because it's not durable enough. I've also chemically faded inserts without a leaving matte finish, so I'm guessing the chemicals used also affect the finish.

I have noticed the clear glossy "orange peel" you mentioned on two genuine 1675 inserts I have though. Not sure how that is achieved... yet!

 

[Singapore9]

Chemically fading inserts without leaving a matte finish - tell us more please!

 

[WatchN3RD]

I will follow up with a play by how-to, but as a quick example, above was no bleach. I meant to make unleaded petro, but I accidentally created rocket fuel. It's my fault! But I wanted to show how cleanly it was (accidentally) stripped of everything. If I rubbed polish on it for 15 seconds, it would shine like platinum. Again, I'll give all the details but am currently out of town and away from the laboratory.

Certain chemicals remove dye more than others with much less destruction to the aluminum itself. Bleach seems to make for a crude finish with random splotches.

 

[Singapore9]

Interested to hear more!

Fascinated as to how CAC achieves a fade like this - the blue is stunning!

Genuine Rolex Submariner 16803 16613 16610 Teal Blue Fade | eBay

Genuine Rolex Submariner 16803 16613 16808 16818 Blue. Uncommon faded hue for you’re submariner. nice mint old Rolex insert with luminovapearl. Original Rolex insertoriginal pearl. Black insert in pic to show hue / color, not included in sale.

www.ebay.com

 

[Karbon74]

Interested to hear more!

Fascinated as to how CAC achieves a fade like this - the blue is stunning!

Genuine Rolex Submariner 16803 16613 16610 Teal Blue Fade | eBay

Genuine Rolex Submariner 16803 16613 16808 16818 Blue. Uncommon faded hue for you’re submariner. nice mint old Rolex insert with luminovapearl. Original Rolex insertoriginal pearl. Black insert in pic to show hue / color, not included in sale.

www.ebay.com

It’s pretty but I don’t like it at all.
Now I am interested to know how too though but that is just the nerd in me speaking

 

[Singapore9]

I'm all about what CAC calls "teal" (or "electric blue" to me) at the moment. Not so keen on that pricing.

I'm also fascinated that the gold always fades to silver. Was the gold printed over a silver base and is effectively a thin layer?

Opens up options if you have blue/gold inserts and want to go to blue/silver.

 

[Manray]

Why is he now claiming his inserts are genuine?

 

[r6538]

some inserts he sells ARE genuine. if he says it's gen, then it's gen.

if it doesn't say gen, it's not gen

 

[Singapore9]

I also note his descriptions are a bit more precise i.e. GEN but with artificial fade, etc., these days.

 

[WatchN3RD]

I'm all about what CAC calls "teal" (or "electric blue" to me) at the moment. Not so keen on that pricing.

I'm also fascinated that the gold always fades to silver. Was the gold printed over a silver base and is effectively a thin layer?

Opens up options if you have blue/gold inserts and want to go to blue/silver.

I don't think the gold was done over a silver dye. Regular inserts have a silver dye, and the gold ones used gold dye. But removal of the gold dye makes for a fainted gold over the natural silver color of the aluminum. And what makes it more difficult to distinguish on vintage inserts is that certain anodizing sealants could/can add a very slight yellow tint. So I guess either way, you might get a silver color with a minor yellow tint.

As for the fading, It's hard to say if it's chemically faded with an etch or media blasted. Gotta finish some projects before I properly dive into this correctly, so I've been slacking.

 

[Singapore9]

I don't think the gold was done over a silver dye. Regular inserts have a silver dye, and the gold ones used gold dye. But removal of the gold dye makes for a fainted gold over the natural silver color of the aluminum. And what makes it more difficult to distinguish on vintage inserts is that certain anodizing sealants could/can add a very slight yellow tint. So I guess either way, you might get a silver color with a minor yellow tint.

As for the fading, It's hard to say if it's chemically faded with an etch or media blasted. Gotta finish some projects before I properly dive into this correctly, so I've been slacking.

Yeah, CAC only states "Insert has been artificially faded to achieve this hue", so not clear how, chemicals or otherwise, but retains the 'shine'.

Whilst I always tended to favour the idea you're just seeing the base ally under the gold, where it has been worn down / faded / bleached, it's still very common to see a strong blue, with the gold numbers faded to silver. The gold seems to fade far, far quicker than the main colour (see also black/gold). To me that says that the gold is a thinner layer or a dye that fades much quicker, which I guess is possible.

Not entirely convinced about this insert but, if GEN, this probably explains my point better: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254878040253

I absolutely adore this insert but... not the price (again): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305662171797

That one again, if GEN, screams artificial fade and is very reminiscent of the artificially faded CAC 5-digit "teal".

I quite like the slightly 'off' silver of the faded gold numbers as they can go nicely with pumpkin lume plots and hands.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Those prices are crazy, but I also "like the slightly 'off' silver of the faded gold numbers" on some watches. It looks to me like these were faded to the desired look and then re-anodized to put a coating back. Doesn't sound too difficult, but there's an art to a good fade and the average person can't anodize either.