What is a Trusted Dealer?

[brtelec]

Well I for one do not care at all what anyone on another forum thinks of me or this forum or our admin. I am more than happy to state that I agree with D4M in total. I do not understand the forum warfare at all. What another forum chooses to do or chooses to list pertaining to dealers is their business. Since I have no personal stake in any dealer financially or otherwise, I just do not care about upsetting any of them or stepping on their toes. I bought my first watch from Andrew, I sent many a noob there also. I have never had any experience with him or Josh that was less than satisfactory and some were stellar. However, I am done with them, I will not recommend them to others and I will not refrain from telling the general rank and file what they have done. I do not know why anyone on any other forum would care what I or this forum as a group thinks of these dealers. It gives me pause to be honest. I have some friends on the other forums that I met through the GTG's and I have not ever seen or felt any of the inter-board hostility that seems to rear it's ugly head not just there but here also. It makes me think that it is not the general rank and file, but a small handful of malcontents that just have to stir the pot.

This thread is not about what the other boards feel about our decisions pertaining to the Andrew/Josh situation. This is about our handling of it and what the admin are going to do about it. If your input is based on whether or not it is going to ruffle feathers elsewhere, you are not thinking this through. Even if this board strikes them from the roles, no one has a gun to anyones head telling them that can not buy from these people. Everyones comfort level in matters of this nature is different. I think however that we as a group are doing a disservice to the people that chose to come here by keeping dealers that we feel are unscrupulous in the way they conduct themselves.

 

[sconehead]

@brtelec, ditto...

 

[daytona4me]

I've purchased watches from Andrew, and have been happy with every one of them. I have referred friends to both Josh and Andrew and they have been happy..

I received several emails per week from noobs asking who to buy from.. (some of you please comment here to back me up please) and I would say to review the sales section... but Josh Ruby Andrew PureTime & PT are some of the larger ones with a lot of feedback and that they could not go wrong with any of them.

This is even during the 7 month absence of Josh and Andrew from this board. (Not 1 single new watch posted except for Andrew the other day (skyland)).

RWI has nothing to prove and played no favorites... and this is my point... maybe it got us into trouble and abandoned by some.

 

[watchbuff]

This is not about a war between the forums. It's about Jandrew threatening or muscling another dealer to cut off his supply. A member or formern member had a slip of the lip and the proverbial cat was let out of the bag. Plain and simple, we have our list of dealers and other forums have theirs. Ours should not have Jandrew in light of this conspiracy.

OR maybe have a star rating and leave the noobs and buyers to their own devices. Im on the verge of tossing a dealer if he does not come through. I will make my rant public on all the forums. That's the worst case scenario, and that's what we have here. Price gouging ans muscling is outright stealing in this really grey shaded area of a hobby. They're acting like gangsters and I will not deal or acknoledge them.

 

[seank]

This was never started as a war between anyone. I want the members of RWG and RepGeeks to be protected as well. Unfortunately it will be construed as us being muppets or that we have an agenda or that we are in bed with certain dealers. I just want to go on record to say that is not the case. BTW I've probably bought 10 watches from Andrew and most of the transactions have gone really smooth but again thats no excuse for the current events.





Sean K

 

[daytona4me]

Agreed,, I have friends on both forums... but if you read my initial post... I am giving my opinion on the definition of the term "Trusted Dealer"... this conversation has evolved a little bit from the initial post.. but not much... still mostly on track.. there should be no talk about other forums really outside the fact that we are playing tough love and getting punished for it to a certain extent.

 

[LegendofSpeed]

RWI exists as a non-profit forum.... there is a VIP level... but the donation amount to attain that level is your personal choice... you determine how much you wish to donate to keep the forum going...

Dealers do not pay any fees to be on this board... they are not told they must donate $X amount of watches... nor do any of the staff get any favors or freebies... if the staff wants a free lunch then they should not be staff... we exist to serve the members for the right reasons, not to be hooked up... the dealers that are on this board are only required to do one thing, and that is to continue to provide services to the members in a manner that is consistent with being called a "trusted" dealer...

Our mission has always been to bring our members the best and most honorable dealers we can.... so that our members may purchase in relative safety and not be scammed... to do this, we must be above reproach for our decisions can not be clouded... i myself have no ulterior motive to protect or harm any dealer.... as chair of the admin committee, it is my duty to you, the member, to be unbiased and to make decisions in your best interests, not mine...

What has evolved is that it is no longer enough to merely deliver a watch and to resolve an issue, should one come up... being a trusted dealer means that you make a fair profit, but do not gouge us... service us with respect and appreciation that we love this hobby so much...

The owner of the company for whom I serve as a VP barely finished high school... he is now a multi-millionaire and CEO of a very successful company... in everything that he has taught me about his philosophies concerning business, there is one that sticks out... it's his #1 motto... pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered...

As this is an international forum... I shall explain.... in our business, it is fair to make a reasonable profit... after all, we are here to make money... but when we become too greedy, when we try to take advantage of our customers... that is when they will leave us...

 

[sconehead]

Another adage, some people are pigs whilst others are swines, I think we all know which dealers are swines after the Hont affair...

 

[seanf]

The bottom line is that you guys have a choice. You can buy a watch from Jandrew and be assured of good service, a good watch, and a relatively good warranty. But in so doing, you are rewarding Jandrew for charging some truly outrageous prices and bad business practices. And this will embolden them, and they will continue to charge ridiculous prices. And the next time a fancy new watch comes on the market, you'll be paying 25% to 40% more for it than you should because Jandrew's business tatics have been successful. Your choice.

 

[cybee]

One thing I will say, I do "trust" the admin team here and no matter what they decide will be fine and dandy for me.

But one thing that is hard for me to figure out is why a lot of members even some of the more experienced members are refusing to comment here. You know they are reading and have opinions about this so why are they hesitant to respond?

Just because you never order from the cartel does mean you don't have an opinion about all this. If most members do not respond how can the team effectively guage what everyone is thinking???

C'mon, spit it out.

 

[seanf]

Cybee, you bring up a good point. What should be done about this? As has been previously said, we've got an unusual situation in that no one has accused Jandrew of not delivering a watch, or being abusive to members, or (blatantly) misrepresenting things on their website. Rather, we're talking about general business practices that harm the forum membership as a whole. So, the question remains-- what should we do about Andrew?

 

[LegendofSpeed]

I'd love to see the admin pm's on the Hont issue now the cat's out the bag...

I know that you would love to... and before I was on staff, I used to always wonder what happened behind closed doors.... my first act as a staff member was to peruse the admin section to see all the past threads... so trust me, I understand and appreciate the curiosity...

You will not see any staff member's pm's nor any admin section threads published in the open forum... this has never been done before and to do so now would set a precedent that I do not want to set... what happens in the admin section stays in the admin section...

This is not because we have anything to hide but has more to do with the fact that we do not feel our motives nor integrity should be questioned on this... I can tell you that the admin discussion concerning this started on July 17th (my wife's b-day btw) and has continued till now... if the honor of the staff is not sufficient for the members of this community to believe us then we have much bigger problems then being discussed here...

Remember, the prohibition of posting any admin section information extends beyond threads such as these to various other matters having to do with the board.

Should anyone wish to discuss this matter, please pm me directly.... for the purposes of this thread, the matter is closed...

 

[hk45ca]

One thing I will say, I do "trust" the admin team here and no matter what they decide will be fine and dandy for me.

But one thing that is hard for me to figure out is why a lot of members even some of the more experienced members are refusing to comment here. You know they are reading and have opinions about this so why are they hesitant to respond?

Just because you never order from the cartel does mean you don't have an opinion about all this. If most members do not respond how can the team effectively guage what everyone is thinking???

C'mon, spit it out.

i would imagine they are not going to speak out about this in fear of backlash. i am just tired of people being gouged by over hyping and over charging because of the rarity of a particular watch. especially when supplies are being artificially manipulated.

 

[trevor2079]

The bottom line is that you guys have a choice. You can buy a watch from Jandrew and be assured of good service, a good watch, and a relatively good warranty. But in so doing, you are rewarding Jandrew for charging some truly outrageous prices and bad business practices. And this will embolden them, and they will continue to charge ridiculous prices. And the next time a fancy new watch comes on the market, you'll be paying 25% to 40% more for it than you should because Jandrew's business tatics have been successful. Your choice.

I agree with you seanf, however if the cartel is threatening our other dealers, we have a problem. To me, forcing our other good dealers to raise thier price, "or else" makes all of us suffer, regardless if we decide to buy from the cartel or not. The problem does not nessisarily go away if we just don't buy from these guys.

 

[hk45ca]

The bottom line is that you guys have a choice. You can buy a watch from Jandrew and be assured of good service, a good watch, and a relatively good warranty. But in so doing, you are rewarding Jandrew for charging some truly outrageous prices and bad business practices. And this will embolden them, and they will continue to charge ridiculous prices. And the next time a fancy new watch comes on the market, you'll be paying 25% to 40% more for it than you should because Jandrew's business tatics have been successful. Your choice.

I agree with you seanf, however if the cartel is threatening our other dealers, we have a problem. To me, forcing our other good dealers to raise thier price, "or else" makes all of us suffer, regardless if we decide to buy from the cartel or not. The problem does not nessisarily go away if we just don't buy from these guys.

yes, that is correct. in many cases the prices have been artificially manipulated from the factory to your dealer. even if your dealer is a non cartel dealer, the customer is paying an even more artificially inflated price. this is the main reason i haven't bought anything since last october, i am not going to be a party to this any longer.

 

[supermanx]

The problem only goes away if you do not purchase from the cartel dealers, or the dealers that comply with them. I honestly think we have gotten close to the max that the forums can support as far as cost... many of the latest models are not sell-outs, lilke the ap roo. And based on the price war of the sa v1 vs. v2 there is definetly room to bring the cost down.

My last new watch was an SSD in dec...
Around Oct. last year I bought an Ultimate BCE diamond and HBB steel Ultimate and a ss Crazy hours the first week they came out for far less then I could buy them for today.

 

[hk45ca]

The problem only goes away if you do not purchase from the cartel dealers, or the dealers that comply with them. I honestly think we have gotten close to the max that the forums can support as far as cost... many of the latest models are not sell-outs, lilke the ap roo. And based on the price war of the sa v1 vs. v2 there is definetly room to bring the cost down.

there is allot of room to bring the cost down in my opinion.

 

[cybee]

More recently, Hontwatch, one of our new dealers, said that he received a letter from Andrew telling him that unless he increased his prices for several new watches, Andrew would take steps to make sure that the factory wouldn't supply Hont with anymore of these watches. .

Just out of curiosity if any action is taken regarding cartel dealers, and considering the so-called clout and leverage that Andrew has with the factory, what or who is to say there would not be a backlash against Hont from the cartel regardless of the decision made here?

Oops sorry, I just read below that the matter is closed...I'm done.

 

[trevor2079]

The problem only goes away if you do not purchase from the cartel dealers, or the dealers that comply with them. I honestly think we have gotten close to the max that the forums can support as far as cost... many of the latest models are not sell-outs, lilke the ap roo. And based on the price war of the sa v1 vs. v2 there is definetly room to bring the cost down.

there is allot of room to bring the cost down in my opinion.

Absolutely... I have a Super Avenger Ultimate on the way, from a dealer not represented on this board.
Price is SIGNIFICANLY less...

 

[LegendofSpeed]

Oops sorry, I just read below that the matter is closed...I'm done.

It's not closed.... only the discussion pertaining to posting admin threads is...

Please continue to discuss the topic started by the OP