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We might finally be able to answer this question in 2020
- Thread starter puretime
- Start date
Excuse me, Angus. Thank you so much for providing us with the valuable information.
I have some questions.
①Do you know which movement is installed on the ZF one? VR3135 or SH3135 or others?
②According to the picture you posted yesterday, the ZF case looks almost perfect. However, the serial rehaut engraving at the 6 position looks strange. Could you tell this flaw to the factory?
I have some questions.
①Do you know which movement is installed on the ZF one? VR3135 or SH3135 or others?
②According to the picture you posted yesterday, the ZF case looks almost perfect. However, the serial rehaut engraving at the 6 position looks strange. Could you tell this flaw to the factory?
Not impressed with the Noobv11 insert on the black sub. ZZF still checks all the boxes for me. Will hold out for the V3. ON a side note, I watched the chinese video liked earlier of the Noob V11 and they got the bezel click down pat. Its little things like that you will only be able to tell in person.
- 20/1/13
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How does this look?
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Looks epic! Don‘t understand all the hate. Yes the dial might not be perfect yet, but it‘s not the final release and otherwise it‘s an easy swap to a cf dial. Oh and the cyclops looks extremely promising (finally). Thanks a lot Angus for your effort and keeping us up to date
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Cyclops looks freaking GEN. You guys really giving Angus a hard time. Makein perfect reps for 800? Ye sure, lets crowdfund some machinery for 10 million and we will make sure they fix some perfect reps...
mari115
Respected Member
When you have time, while spending some time with the makers, ask them if they can make a 16710 with VR3185 clone movement, there is a HUGE slice of market that NO high end replica factory covers (except BP, but BP's 16710 is trash).
Thanks
Fab87pz
Active Member
- 2/8/18
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Wow, I have been resisting to the temptation of buying an ARF v3 and a spare vr3135 for months, now I read this...can't believe that once in a while I make a correct decision
Wow, I have been resisting to the temptation of buying an ARF v3 and a spare vr3135 for months, now I read this...can't believe that once in a while I make a correct decision
Lol good one bro
Don’t get Some of the hate here
I’ll probably get ten haters or smart ass comments for saying this but Some people must have little to no idea how things are actually manufactured and how tolerances and variations factor in to the production of certain items. I’ve been in this industry for a long time I think an example of what Angus is trying to say
factories outsource a lot of work and not always from the same vendors every time depending on availability of materials machine downtime and labour ect ect. if you think that one factory has every little part for these reps made under one roof by the same machine the same dies, the same tooling, operators and then qc’d by the same guy for every version you are naive and need to understand a few basics in process engineering. Even Rolex outsource some parts,..for instance when you buy your gen parts what do you think the company does who’s names printed on the little bits of paper that Rolex hands come mounted on?? You think they make the paper lol, no that’s the hand manufacturer Rolex outsourced to make their hands and that company makes hands for other Swiss watch companies. I couldn’t care how much if a pro some people think they are because they looked at five Rolex’s under a microscope and can say every single part in a model series is 100% identical because it’s a Rolex....you are wrong... they have variations just like all other factories that manufacture anything.
Before people comment that there’s no variance in batches from watch companies show me the calibrated equipment you used to determine your results... unfortunately your calibrated eyeballs don’t count. Everything is manufactured in batches and things do change... and not always on purpose to fool people or to “trick the counterfeiters” There are acceptable variations to a standard in a process from PPQ to QC for everything that’s made. it’s sometimes impossible for Rolex to make a product design for ten years and make it identical through every batch. This is because over time things like base materials vendors change products or suppliers, new machines, new tooling- worn tooling over time and new proceedures From start to finish the list goes on and on.
Because of these industry factors Even if there are CAD drawings converted to CNC programs not every factory uses the identical technology and vendors could change basically due to cost, unit vs time capability or material availability.
we get the fact that factories like noob keep making intentional mistakes to sell their next version and keep us buying “the next best thing” but once advertised the variations from that point on may not always be intentional. Give the factories a chance and at least Angus is communicating with us through the production process.
Plus if one factory makes the perfect replica sub then it’s over! where’s the fun in the this hobby of modding. We’d all just have the same identical fake sub. some of us miss the point of all this... it’s a hobby and we enjoy the hunt.
I’ll probably get ten haters or smart ass comments for saying this but Some people must have little to no idea how things are actually manufactured and how tolerances and variations factor in to the production of certain items. I’ve been in this industry for a long time I think an example of what Angus is trying to say
factories outsource a lot of work and not always from the same vendors every time depending on availability of materials machine downtime and labour ect ect. if you think that one factory has every little part for these reps made under one roof by the same machine the same dies, the same tooling, operators and then qc’d by the same guy for every version you are naive and need to understand a few basics in process engineering. Even Rolex outsource some parts,..for instance when you buy your gen parts what do you think the company does who’s names printed on the little bits of paper that Rolex hands come mounted on?? You think they make the paper lol, no that’s the hand manufacturer Rolex outsourced to make their hands and that company makes hands for other Swiss watch companies. I couldn’t care how much if a pro some people think they are because they looked at five Rolex’s under a microscope and can say every single part in a model series is 100% identical because it’s a Rolex....you are wrong... they have variations just like all other factories that manufacture anything.
Before people comment that there’s no variance in batches from watch companies show me the calibrated equipment you used to determine your results... unfortunately your calibrated eyeballs don’t count. Everything is manufactured in batches and things do change... and not always on purpose to fool people or to “trick the counterfeiters” There are acceptable variations to a standard in a process from PPQ to QC for everything that’s made. it’s sometimes impossible for Rolex to make a product design for ten years and make it identical through every batch. This is because over time things like base materials vendors change products or suppliers, new machines, new tooling- worn tooling over time and new proceedures From start to finish the list goes on and on.
Because of these industry factors Even if there are CAD drawings converted to CNC programs not every factory uses the identical technology and vendors could change basically due to cost, unit vs time capability or material availability.
we get the fact that factories like noob keep making intentional mistakes to sell their next version and keep us buying “the next best thing” but once advertised the variations from that point on may not always be intentional. Give the factories a chance and at least Angus is communicating with us through the production process.
Plus if one factory makes the perfect replica sub then it’s over! where’s the fun in the this hobby of modding. We’d all just have the same identical fake sub. some of us miss the point of all this... it’s a hobby and we enjoy the hunt.
muiramas
Aristocrat
- 18/1/17
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Tobel
Respected Member
- 6/7/17
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Please don't, I just want to say thank you. I don't understand how some people can behave this way with Angus who's been sharing so much more insights than we usually do, without any understanding of how things work. So in the midst of all of this your post is more than welcome.
And thank you puretime for the efforts and transparency here, this is much appreciated.
jm_brc_7057
I'm Pretty Popular
Let’s not kill the messenger! Fair enough to point out flaws in reps. But at least let’s talk to Angus in a sober tone and respect his help. He could choose not to do it at all. Let’s appreciate that
puretime thanks and much appreciated first hand insight which we normally don’t get much of here.
puretime thanks and much appreciated first hand insight which we normally don’t get much of here.
I like that you speak truthfully and honestly in your replies. Big respect for that!
If factories are changing constantly due to whatever reason then I can see the dimensions never really being the same as previous versions. In every metal finishing business, you have them outsource everything to what they call tier 1 suppliers who then write up a contract. For high volume contracts they are usually subjected to bidding from other tier 1 suppliers. Most suppliers have like 3 or 4 different stamping presses...once that contract is established the factory then needs to outsource a die that fits into their presses to make the parts and the bidding process begins again..
each factory has different equipment and personnel responsible for different CNC machinery, lathe cutting, EDM machine (wire burning), even the polishing jigg.... I can see it taking 6 to 8 months to come out with a new version. Maybe you can confirm that Angus?
its no easy process to begin with, the troubleshooting alone drives die makers insane.
That comment about it costing rolex 800 dollars to make a watch cant be true. They probably need teams just to operate each piece of CAD. I've seen metal finishing sites with a staff of engineers and people with PhD's. I can only imagine how many a company like Rolex staff to maintain their facilities and keep that high standard image. Has to bring a cost of atleast 1500 euros.
Tobel thanks for the kind words mate I appreciate it.
I guess most of the processes in the production of Swiss watches are kept secret So The info is not readily available to the public or even to a factory that try’s to replicate them. So to create something by having to engineer your own processes, tooling and training operators From the get go is a mountain of work.
im sure there’s plenty of hidden costs in the production of a Rolex... depending on which model. Factoring In batch rejects, Paying staff through production changeover downtime and shit tons of dollars on advertising.
Pretty sure they are registered as a foundation and don’t pay to much tax so I think they do jump on the RRP just a little Hahaha.
I guess most of the processes in the production of Swiss watches are kept secret So The info is not readily available to the public or even to a factory that try’s to replicate them. So to create something by having to engineer your own processes, tooling and training operators From the get go is a mountain of work.
im sure there’s plenty of hidden costs in the production of a Rolex... depending on which model. Factoring In batch rejects, Paying staff through production changeover downtime and shit tons of dollars on advertising.
Pretty sure they are registered as a foundation and don’t pay to much tax so I think they do jump on the RRP just a little Hahaha.
When you have time, while spending some time with the makers, ask them if they can make a 16710 with VR3185 clone movement, there is a HUGE slice of market that NO high end replica factory covers (except BP, but BP's 16710 is trash).
Thanks
It could be an instant buy for a lot of people!
well said mate.
puretime thanks al lot for such detailed updates and welcoming inputs from the forum
Just to clarify, does this topic include both the LN and LV models (sorry couldn’t tell from initial post). I thought this would have been a teaser for the new RXF models, since this was announced approximately the same time the RXF ones were being introduced.
There’s one other review post on the RXF going through their impressions on the watch and it seemed like they nailed it.
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There’s one other review post on the RXF going through their impressions on the watch and it seemed like they nailed it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was right behind you until this last part. I always thought the 'intentional mistakes' was an urban myth or a joke. But to have it put out there in black and white is a little.....enlightening. Further, it makes me think that all these 'factories' arent so independent.....more like a family run business that has many branches under different names. Thank you for pulling back the curtain on the wizard of Oz.
Modding a watch isnt a hobby of mine. I just want a quality replica without intentional mistakes that keep me chasing a plastic carrot.