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VSF 126610 Submariner with VS3235 Latest Movement 72 Hours Power Reserve

fatarms

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More AR coating than last gen.

So you either don't want to answer my question or, more than likely, don't understand what the AR on the underside does. What its function is. Why the dial pops more.
Got it.

I do. And I see evidence of AR on the underside of the rep in every shot I've seen in this thread.
 

YellowFin

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I think you need to understand the difference between lacking and non-existent. Sounds crazy but you can hold both models in hand and play with both in various lighting to see one has a dial that pops more. That's how consumers found out the 41mm has increased the AR, with no crystal removal, believe it or not!

The 12xx models have no increased AR. The previous generation had none. The AR was announced by R Factory as well as it can be seen by a second circle in the LEC.
 
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Duckber

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So you either don't want to answer my question or, more than likely, don't understand what the AR on the underside does. What its function is. Why the dial pops more.
Got it.

I do. And I see evidence of AR on the underside of the rep in every shot I've seen in this thread.

That's fantastic, I'm happy you do and believe it or not I do too. Now if you applied some critical thinking you'd understand that that is not contradictory to what I said. As nice as the vsf AR is, the new gen crystal has more.
 

Duckber

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The 12xx models have no increased AR. The previous generation had none. The AR was announced by R Factory as well as it can be seen by a second circle in the LEC.

From what I understand the previous gen had some AR. Well, tell that to modernclassic with the gen. I'm not willing to bet the farm on this aspect, you might be right here.

My only point is that the new gen crystal is an upgrade to the previous gen, regardless of whether it's new AR or an upgrade of it. And the vsf crystal is lacking in that at the moment as well.
 
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fatarms

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That's fantastic, I'm happy you do and believe it or not I do too. Now if you applied some critical thinking you'd understand that that is not contradictory to what I said. As nice as the vsf AR is, the new gen crystal has more.

I applied critical thinking, that's how I came up with the conclusion that you're full of shit. Don't try to talk down to me, princess.
 

Duckber

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I applied critical thinking, that's how I came up with the conclusion that you're full of shit. Don't try to talk down to me, princess.

So instead of actually discussing my point you just insult me. I guess you win? Who was that that said something about unnecessary last words again?
 
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fatarms

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So instead of actually discussing my point you're just insult me. I guess you win? Who was that that said something about unnecessary last words again?

Instead of pretending you know, go back in this thread and find it yourself. I already posted the answer, complete with pictures and a diagram. When you find it, apply the same physics to the replica pictures throughout this thread and you'll see plenty of evidence on the underside.

The 116 series has AR underneath the cyclops on the crystal. The 112 series has AR under the cyclops as well as coating the entire underside of the crystal. The 116 series did NOT have AR on the underside of the crystal. It was on top, under the cyclops only.
 

Duckber

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Instead of pretending you know, go back in this thread and find it yourself. I already posted the answer, complete with pictures and a diagram. When you find it, apply the same physics to the replica pictures throughout this thread and you'll see plenty of evidence on the underside.

The 116 series has AR underneath the cyclops on the crystal. The 112 series has AR under the cyclops as well as coating the entire underside of the crystal. The 116 series did NOT have AR on the underside of the crystal. It was on top, under the cyclops only.

Wow, that's pretty cool. Now let's go through another critical thinking exercise:

That does not contradict anything I said about VSF's 126 crystal versus the Rolex 126 Crystal. Whatsoever.

But thank you for that random trivia!
 
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fatarms

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Wow, that's pretty cool. Now let's go through another critical thinking exercise:

That does not contradict anything I said about VSF's 126 crystal versus the Rolex 126 Crystal. Whatsoever.

But thank you for that random trivia!

Since you pretend to know what the AR on the underside of the crystal does, what is the other factor that can cause the dial not to pop as much as the gen does that you have yet to mention in your repetitive list of flaws?
 
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Duckber

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Since you pretend to know what the AR on the underside of the crystal does, what is the other factor that can cause the dial not to pop as much as the gen does that you have yet to mention in your repetitive list of flaws?

I'm not a watch maker, but I'd imagine not all AR coating is created equal. It's a spectrum of clarity and it's not a binary of either super clear or super not. I'd also advise you not to shoot the messenger, I'm simply telling you there have been people who handled the gen and 41mm VSF side by side and said the crystal is better on the gen still.
 

alexcast

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Since you pretend to know what the AR on the underside of the crystal does, what is the other factor that can cause the dial not to pop as much as the gen does that you have yet to mention in your repetitive list of flaws?

I don’t see [mention]Duckber [/mention]’s own piece, if he buys one then I’ll pay attention on his opinion :)


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
 
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Duckber

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I don’t see [mention]Duckber [/mention]’s own piece, if he buys one then I’ll pay attention on his opinion :)


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Yeah, it's not like they updated something I was critical of before... oh right.
 
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YellowFin

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Out of sheer Covid lockdown boredom I grabbed my camera to check if VSF cared to update their LEC. Looks like they indeed tried to laser a second circle within the lower LEC part, but the laser etching is quite bad. You can see that some points just got too hot in the process and damaged the glass, which caused the little rings around single laser dots. I don't need a microscope at hand to be sure they didn't copy the gen LEC which is actually made up of little stars, not just simple dots. I have to agree to Ducky that ARs can have a huge variance in quality and level of light absorption, so AR isn't AR. The difference is a lot bigger with a top side AR though where some watches (e.g. most Breitling pieces) can appear to have no crystal at all from certain angles.


Z6dWk2.jpg
 
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fatarms

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I'm not a watch maker, but I'd imagine not all AR coating is created equal. It's a spectrum of clarity and it's not a binary of either super clear or super not. I'd also advise you not to shoot the messenger, I'm simply telling you there have been people who handled the gen and 41mm VSF side by side and said the crystal is better on the gen still.

That's called third hand information. You're allowed to subscribe to it, but unless you have done it yourself and can vouch for it, then stop pushing your ideas on us and telling us we're wrong.

I'll help you out. The AR on the underside stops the polished dial from reflecting light off the dial surface, then back to the underside of the crystal, then back to the surface of the dial, etc... it's like light caught between two mirrored surfaces reflecting back and forth. If you put AR under the crystal, then it will diminish and inhibit the back and forth, therefore the dial looks sharper. AR on the top tends to make the crystal more transparent, but only looks absent in the presence of the underside AR as well.

The other factor in all this that could be affecting the sharpness of the dial when compared to gen is the dial itself. If the polish is too high on the dial, it can cause more reflection. If the small angles of the hour markers or hands are just right, they can also reflect more light onto the bottom side of the crystal, moreso than the gen does if it has angles that deflect the light laterally rather than vertically. All of this plays into how legible and sharp the dial looks. To say that the AR is the only factor is just one factor. Of course it's the most influential factor, but it can be compromised by other reflective surfaces that do not match the gen in either polish or geometry. Imagine looking out a window with AR at noon vs. 5PM when the sun is lower and the angle of attack has changed. It's easier to see out of the window at noon, no?

Many factors com into play here, so on this one "flaw" as you call it, I'm showing you that you are only taking one factor into consideration; that being the AR of the gen vs the rep. They may in fact be the same, they may not. But there are other parts under that AR that play vital roles as well.



Critical thinking.
 

Duckber

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That's called third hand information. You're allowed to subscribe to it, but unless you have done it yourself and can vouch for it, then stop pushing your ideas on us and telling us we're wrong.

I'll help you out. The AR on the underside stops the polished dial from reflecting light off the dial surface, then back to the underside of the crystal, then back to the surface of the dial, etc... it's like light caught between two mirrored surfaces reflecting back and forth. If you put AR under the crystal, then it will diminish and inhibit the back and forth, therefore the dial looks sharper. AR on the top tends to make the crystal more transparent, but only looks absent in the presence of the underside AR as well.

The other factor in all this that could be affecting the sharpness of the dial when compared to gen is the dial itself. If the polish is too high on the dial, it can cause more reflection. If the small angles of the hour markers or hands are just right, they can also reflect more light onto the bottom side of the crystal, moreso than the gen does if it has angles that deflect the light laterally rather than vertically. All of this plays into how legible and sharp the dial looks. To say that the AR is the only factor is just one factor. Of course it's the most influential factor, but it can be compromised by other reflective surfaces that do not match the gen in either polish or geometry. Imagine looking out a window with AR at noon vs. 5PM when the sun is lower and the angle of attack has changed. It's easier to see out of the window at noon, no?

Many factors com into play here, so on this one "flaw" as you call it, I'm showing you that you are only taking one factor into consideration; that being the AR of the gen vs the rep. They may in fact be the same, they may not. But there are other parts under that AR that play vital roles as well.



Critical thinking.

And you wrote all that, which, funnily enough... still doesn't contradict anything I said. Bravo.

And yes, I'm going by third hand information. Never denied that. I'm not pushing anything or holding a gun to your head. However I consider a gen owner's opinion valuable and thought it would be a good opinion to add. Every poster can make their own assessment afterward.

As far as telling you "you're wrong" was particularly about the end links, use some more critical thinking. Or reading comprehension perhaps in this case.
 
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fatarms

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And you wrote all that, which, funnily enough... still doesn't contradict anything I said. Bravo.

And yes, I'm going by third hand information. Never denied that. I'm not pushing anything or holding a gun to your head. However I consider a gen owner's opinion valuable and thought it would be a good opinion to add. Every poster can make their own assessment afterward.

The second last sentence (if you got that far) contracdicts your "lacks AR statement" 100%. You cam to that conclusion without taking anything else into account. Of course, I'm sure you already knew that though.
 

Jayalvin777

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I'm not a watch maker,

You're just a fool that completely sent this thread to shit. you havent handle any of both watches (yeah dont believe your Disney stories that you saw a gen), so i don't know why you write with authority that you clearly dont have. googling some information doesnt make you an expert about the topic. Just shut up once and for all. So much useful information burried because of your clueless comments.
​​​​​
 

Duckber

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The second last sentence (if you got that far) contracdicts your "lacks AR statement" 100%. You cam to that conclusion without taking anything else into account. Of course, I'm sure you already knew that though.

...And I'll say it again.... this is coming from a gen owner's thoughts comparing them side by side. You can come up with many different reasons why he thought the way he did. The fact of the matter is that he thought the crystal was subpar in comparison. Using some weird "you have to open up the watch and see all the intricate details of the AR application and then sneak in a Rolex lab to test the congruency to find out if it's really the AR and not some other aspect..." as some weird gotcha moment is simply a matter of arguing semantics. Could he be wrong and the crystal sucks for something else? I mean maybe, who knows? Who cares? What the point was, was that he didn't think the crystal was up to par. You wasting your time writing all that is arguing semantics, nothing more. Critical thinking tho.

You're just a fool that completely sent this thread to shit. you havent handle any of both watches (yeah dont believe your Disney stories that you saw a gen), so i don't know why you write with authority that you clearly dont have. googling some information doesnt make you an expert about the topic. Just shut up once and for all. So much useful information burried because of your clueless comments.
​​​​​

I handled the gen quite a few times. If you don't want the discussion, don't discuss with me.
 
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Sidhu6355

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That's called third hand information. You're allowed to subscribe to it, but unless you have done it yourself and can vouch for it, then stop pushing your ideas on us and telling us we're wrong.

I'll help you out. The AR on the underside stops the polished dial from reflecting light off the dial surface, then back to the underside of the crystal, then back to the surface of the dial, etc... it's like light caught between two mirrored surfaces reflecting back and forth. If you put AR under the crystal, then it will diminish and inhibit the back and forth, therefore the dial looks sharper. AR on the top tends to make the crystal more transparent, but only looks absent in the presence of the underside AR as well.

The other factor in all this that could be affecting the sharpness of the dial when compared to gen is the dial itself. If the polish is too high on the dial, it can cause more reflection. If the small angles of the hour markers or hands are just right, they can also reflect more light onto the bottom side of the crystal, moreso than the gen does if it has angles that deflect the light laterally rather than vertically. All of this plays into how legible and sharp the dial looks. To say that the AR is the only factor is just one factor. Of course it's the most influential factor, but it can be compromised by other reflective surfaces that do not match the gen in either polish or geometry. Imagine looking out a window with AR at noon vs. 5PM when the sun is lower and the angle of attack has changed. It's easier to see out of the window at noon, no?

Many factors com into play here, so on this one "flaw" as you call it, I'm showing you that you are only taking one factor into consideration; that being the AR of the gen vs the rep. They may in fact be the same, they may not. But there are other parts under that AR that play vital roles as well.



Critical thinking.

Duck's got a walnut sized brain mate, he won't understand a single thing you said here and would refute like he always does- he's got no facts, no solid proofs but videos and images and oh yeah, secondary information and bullcrap, that's all he got. He was vindicated earlier since VSF drastically improved their "poorly finished" lugs, "fit and finish" in a silent update since they contacted him for supervision. He can't even understand what marginal improvement means and here you are mate, unloading information which he would never be able to comprehend.