Turn gmt movement and dial

[Jcap66]

Hey!

I have two GMT’s on order. I know that most of you probably doesn’t care about index/rehaut alignment but I do and both these watches have the dial/movement a bit turned anti clockwise.

Now to my question:
Is it possible to open the caseback, loosen the movement screws and turn the whole movement and dial a bit clockwise so that everything lines up?
Thank you

 

[MoD2Franken]

Yes it’s possible an very easy to manage

 

[Jcap66]

Yes it’s possible an very easy to manage

Thank you. If I need to turn the crystal a bit to too align with the datewheel, do I need to remove the crystal first and place it correctly or can it be turned when in place?

 

[MoD2Franken]

Thank you. If I need to turn the crystal a bit to too align with the datewheel, do I need to remove the crystal first and place it correctly or can it be turned when in place?

yes for crystal - DW alignment the entire bezel assembly need to be dismantled first.

 

[Jcap66]

yes for crystal - DW alignment the entire bezel assembly need to be dismantled first.

Ok thanks, going to degrease it anyways so that won’t be a problem.

 

[TerryRobot]

IT all depends on what is at fault though!

Rehaut is engraved but not in the centre at 1200 will mean it will always be left or right of the dial as it will be part of the case and the case tube for the crown will dictate how much left or right jiggle you have.

If the crystal is out of line then yes it will need to be removed and then re-seated, this will then mean that whilst it might match up with the date wheel if you can rotate the movement inside the case enough to line it up with the rehaut engraving but at the same time tis will mean that the LEC at the bottom will also not line up at 1800 and will be a little bit off by as much as the dial was before trying to move the movement to line up.

The key piece is the engraving being off which could be rejected.

At the end of the day the engraving isnt always perfect on the gens i was looking at a 126713grnr and looked at quite a few gens and some were a little off to the left, noticeable only under close inspection and most would neve notice, a jeweller, will not notice maybe at first glance but any dealer worth their salt will work out its a rep anyway.

Fooling people in the street is pretty easy but if it came to a dealer without papers then it will be opened up and there is the tell, they wont really bother looking at the fine details on the case if it questioned.

I shouldn't worry all that much about trying to fix it as your most likely end up getting in more of pickle for little gain, unless you are used to cracking them open that is in which was go for it but it will never be perfect as you will be trying to line everything up but just slightly left of 12 oclock which might look worse than just the engraving being out by a smidge

Good luck if you do and post back some before and after shots side by side and what work you did to them so others might benefit.

 

[m5750]

Thank you. If I need to turn the crystal a bit to too align with the datewheel, do I need to remove the crystal first and place it correctly or can it be turned when in place?

Adjusting the movement a little is cake.

Disassembling everything?

If you're familiar with how these cases come apart and go back together, you're set. There are some great posts by members here on this that have helped me a lot. If you aren't familiar, my suggestion would be to determine how big of a potential can of worms you want to open. Just my 2 cents. Please don't take this as discouragement, but rather an echo of experience. One small thing turns into an absolute nightmare if you aren't properly equipped.

 

[Jcap66]

IT all depends on what is at fault though!

Rehaut is engraved but not in the centre at 1200 will mean it will always be left or right of the dial as it will be part of the case and the case tube for the crown will dictate how much left or right jiggle you have.

If the crystal is out of line then yes it will need to be removed and then re-seated, this will then mean that whilst it might match up with the date wheel if you can rotate the movement inside the case enough to line it up with the rehaut engraving but at the same time tis will mean that the LEC at the bottom will also not line up at 1800 and will be a little bit off by as much as the dial was before trying to move the movement to line up.

The key piece is the engraving being off which could be rejected.

At the end of the day the engraving isnt always perfect on the gens i was looking at a 126713grnr and looked at quite a few gens and some were a little off to the left, noticeable only under close inspection and most would neve notice, a jeweller, will not notice maybe at first glance but any dealer worth their salt will work out its a rep anyway.

Fooling people in the street is pretty easy but if it came to a dealer without papers then it will be opened up and there is the tell, they wont really bother looking at the fine details on the case if it questioned.

I shouldn't worry all that much about trying to fix it as your most likely end up getting in more of pickle for little gain, unless you are used to cracking them open that is in which was go for it but it will never be perfect as you will be trying to line everything up but just slightly left of 12 oclock which might look worse than just the engraving being out by a smidge

Good luck if you do and post back some before and after shots side by side and what work you did to them so others might benefit.

I’m almost 100% sure it’s the dial (movement) that are shifted a bit because the crown lines up with the bezel and rehaut letters horizontally.

I don’t think it should be a problem to fix it, I have fixed small things before and opened watches but had to make sure that it was possible with this model also.

For me it doesn’t have to be perfect bc as you say some gens can be a little bit off as well and since im probably going to have to shift the crystal I will install a deep crystal instead.

I think this is the best route, the Pepsi are a gift for my dad’s birthday so I don’t have the time to wait for a new batch to arrive.
I’ll post some pictures when I get them.

 

[Jcap66]

Adjusting the movement a little is cake.

Disassembling everything?

If you're familiar with how these cases come apart and go back together, you're set. There are some great posts by members here on this that have helped me a lot. If you aren't familiar, my suggestion would be to determine how big of a potential can of worms you want to open. Just my 2 cents. Please don't take this as discouragement, but rather an echo of experience. One small thing turns into an absolute nightmare if you aren't properly equipped.

Thanks mate.

Good to hear that shifting the movement is easy.

I’ve read this thread https://forum.replica-watch.info/th...x-the-bezel-on-a-clean-gmt-master-2.10668398/
And I will probably give it a go and install deep crystals, fix the spring and clean some grease at the same time. If I feel like there’s something that doesn’t feel right when I do it I’ll send it them some modder to get them fixed instead.

 

[m5750]

Thanks mate.

Good to hear that shifting the movement is easy.

I’ve read this thread https://forum.replica-watch.info/th...x-the-bezel-on-a-clean-gmt-master-2.10668398/
And I will probably give it a go and install deep crystals, fix the spring and clean some grease at the same time. If I feel like there’s something that doesn’t feel right when I do it I’ll send it them some modder to get them fixed instead.

Here' are some good links I got from @KJ2020:

It's detailed and saved my ass on a Sub. In the first link, he uses a GMT as an example. All credit, photos and links were either written by him or sent to me by him. Since you're going to give it a shot, I'd give these a read. The bezel insert can and will break under certain circumstances as well as turning the hytrel ring into Swiss Cheese (pun intended with Swiss).

ROLEX 6-Digit Sub Bezel and Crystal Swap - DIY

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Another stuck GMTII Bezel -- Removed, but I have a question

As you can see, the bezel on this watch took some force to remove. & with the damage, I am hesitant to attempt to reassemble using the original bezel parts. 2 questions -- 1 Has anyone dealt with this type of bezel & crystal retaining system on a rep before? 2 How to remove the wave crystal...

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Here's a parts breakdown from a GMT that he shared with me (Thanks KJ)



I hope this helps.

 

[KJ2020]

Hey!

I have two GMT’s on order. I know that most of you probably doesn’t care about index/rehaut alignment but I do and both these watches have the dial/movement a bit turned anti clockwise.

Now to my question:
Is it possible to open the caseback, loosen the movement screws and turn the whole movement and dial a bit clockwise so that everything lines up?
Thank you

Assuming a movement's stem hole is perfectly centered in the tube, rotating the movement away from that position for a cosmetic benefit is never a recommended action. It will force the stem to move (bend) from its natural position in the tube. Depending on how much the stem is bent, it can become more difficult to move in or out of the movement. It can also break from stress, and it can alter the position angle of the crown, making it harder to thread it closed and wearing down the thread grooves on both the crown and the tube.

Having said that, doing this "fix" is not uncommon and it can help the 60 minute dial tic to become better aligned with the rehaut crown. However, this fix is far more easily accomplished on a smaller diameter movement (ETA, DG, etc.) than a 31xx or 32xx. The reason for this is that a smaller diameter movement means a longer stem which makes a slight bend more possible and less detrimental in the ways I described.

The much larger diameter true clone movements fit nearly flush to the inside of the case and the stem is far shorter. You will find that it is very difficult to rotate these movements at all, and when you release your forced rotation the stem will force the movement right back to its original position. You can rotate it and hold it rotated (with significant effort), tighten down the screws, then let go. But then you will most likely find that operating the stem has become more difficult as well as threading the crown. The stem will bind unnaturally with keyless parts, creating unnecessary pressure and wear.

I have long since abandoned trying to rotate true clone movements from their naturally centered positions with regard to stem hole, tube and stem. It is not worth it. Not to mention it will throw off the relationship of the dial to the insert, the cyclops and the LEC. It's best not to try to rotate a true clone movement unless the stem hole happens to not be centered from the factory.

 

[Jcap66]

Here' are some good links I got from @KJ2020:

It's detailed and saved my ass on a Sub. In the first link, he uses a GMT as an example. All credit, photos and links were either written by him or sent to me by him. Since you're going to give it a shot, I'd give these a read. The bezel insert can and will break under certain circumstances as well as turning the hytrel ring into Swiss Cheese (pun intended with Swiss).

ROLEX 6-Digit Sub Bezel and Crystal Swap - DIY

ROLEX 6-Digit Sub Bezel and Crystal Swap - DIY Most rep 6-digit Sub bezels and crystals can be swapped around or replaced successfully. This post will describe and depict a lot of the steps along the way. There are some basic tools you should have before attempting these tasks, though some...

forum.replica-watch.info

How to Repair VSF 126610 Submariner Bezel / Hytrel Ring - Long Term!

A little background: I recently picked up a VSF 126610LV Starbucks (M2M) whose bezel had roughly 0.5mm of vertical play (absolutely stunning and near perfect watch otherwise!). ~0.5mm of vertical play is not that terrible, but still fairly noticeable. The bezel rotation actually felt pretty...

forum.replica-watch.info

Another stuck GMTII Bezel -- Removed, but I have a question

As you can see, the bezel on this watch took some force to remove. & with the damage, I am hesitant to attempt to reassemble using the original bezel parts. 2 questions -- 1 Has anyone dealt with this type of bezel & crystal retaining system on a rep before? 2 How to remove the wave crystal...

forum.replica-watch.info

Here's a parts breakdown from a GMT that he shared with me (Thanks KJ)



I hope this helps.

Thank you for theese links. I will read up on them and see if this is something that I will go through with or contact a modder.
Is it still risk to f*up the hyrtel ring even if it places in the bezel before attaching the bezel to the case?

 

[Jcap66]

Assuming a movement's stem hole is perfectly centered in the tube, rotating the movement away from that position for a cosmetic benefit is never a recommended action. It will force the stem to move (bend) from its natural position in the tube. Depending on how much the stem is bent, it can become more difficult to move in or out of the movement. It can also break from stress, and it can alter the position angle of the crown, making it harder to thread it closed and wearing down the thread grooves on both the crown and the tube.

Having said that, doing this "fix" is not uncommon and it can help the 60 minute dial tic to become better aligned with the rehaut crown. However, this fix is far more easily accomplished on a smaller diameter movement (ETA, DG, etc.) than a 31xx or 32xx. The reason for this is that a smaller diameter movement means a longer stem which makes a slight bend more possible and less detrimental in the ways I described.

The much larger diameter true clone movements fit nearly flush to the inside of the case and the stem is far shorter. You will find that it is very difficult to rotate these movements at all, and when you release your forced rotation the stem will force the movement right back to its original position. You can rotate it and hold it rotated (with significant effort), tighten down the screws, then let go. But then you will most likely find that operating the stem has become more difficult as well as threading the crown. The stem will bind unnaturally with keyless parts, creating unnecessary pressure and wear.

I have long since abandoned trying to rotate true clone movements from their naturally centered positions with regard to stem hole, tube and stem. It is not worth it. Not to mention it will throw off the relationship of the dial to the insert, the cyclops and the LEC. It's best not to try to rotate a true clone movement unless the stem hole happens to not be centered from the factory.

All right, I see. Thank you for this explanation. Since i don´t have the watches in my hand yet I can´t look what´s and why it´s a bit crooked. Maybe it can´t even be seen in real life without this massive zoom in and I´ve seen gens with this to even if its rare.

But from what I can see from the pictures at least it looks like the crown, bezel, crystal (date sits a bit high in date window) and rehaut are all pretty straight but the movement is turned. Can this be because the stem is too long and thats why the movement has been turned?

I´ll have to investigate them when they arrive and in worse case sell them to someone who isn´t as fussy as me about these things

I´ll be back with an update when they arrive.

 

[m5750]

All right, I see. Thank you for this explanation. Since i don´t have the watches in my hand yet I can´t look what´s and why it´s a bit crooked. Maybe it can´t even be seen in real life without this massive zoom in and I´ve seen gens with this to even if its rare.

This. You can see it; under magnification I'd imagine.

@KJ2020 illustrated this much better than I did. His go-to links will help you if you have the right tools. Even if you buy them, experience is the other major part of it.

I shared my experience because when I attempted this, it resulted in a high level of suck. I'd either accept the watches for what they are, or you'll end up on a wild goose chase trying to find a perfect rep. They just don't exist. If it's perfect to you, then awesome. I think if you sell and buy different watches, being from the same factories (TDs have nothing to do with production), there's a good chance you'll end up where you started. The crown location can't be moved. The rehaut is fixed. Sometimes it's the dial printing that is off. Sometimes the bezel engraving/print. Sometimes the click position. There are so many variables here and can end up driving you nuts.

 

[TerryRobot]

@KJ2020 put it far better than I did, If its the movement that is just ever so slightly out then you might get luck with a little jiggle but as I said the stem is the part that governs how much you can get and its very little Id guess. Most of these that have the etching slightly out from the dial are because the etching is out, and its hard to get everything to line back up. If you can get little movement then you might be ok but not so much that like KJ said will put pressure on the stem.

I bet if you pop the back and loosen the screws there will be very little rotation at all, but worth a look I guess

It hardly noticed unless under close ups and even then most people wont know any different, the bigger giveaway is where the letters a not spaced correctly and then dont line up with the min markers, this is rare too.

Good luck but take a look about at some gens and your will see quite a few are not perfect as imperfection is supposed to perfection!

Whats more annoying and more visual is the crown not lining up with the cases, sure over time a thread might stretch but considering the tolerances RO work to you would think they would have this as a fine are by now but its not and its super rare to get a gen with a crown that sits upwards when he watch is laid down!

Also the simple fact is anyone with a gen doesnt care about these picky little things as much as rep owners as rep owners are always scared of being called out!

Enjoy them both, the Clean GMT is and exceptional watch even when compared to a gen, as we are getting ever close to just the materials and internal finish on the movements now the rest is pretty much there.