I'm loathed to tearing down a perfectly working movement but if people want me to I will
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The 'swiss' 2836 teardown
- Thread starter SMIDSY
- Start date
I'm loathed to tearing down a perfectly working movement but if people want me to I will
So SMIDSY this teardown was this of a non working "swiss" movement? or was this brand new from the dealer?
I'm loathed to tearing down a perfectly working movement but if people want me to I will
Hi Smidsy: Thanks for the excellent review! What a mess! It's the sort of situation where I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I bought a UPO from D4M a couple of years ago and it indeed has a Swiss movement in it--for which I paid a premium. Should I now tear it down and clean it? I did remove the rotor to check whether it was Swiss, when I first received it, and the movement did look clean..... I guess I rather naiively assumed the movement would have been new. Silly me!
working is an interesting word there
it's about a month old from a dealer... and yes was 'working'.D4M is a great dealer... erm well if it is running fine and the readings are good then I'd say leave it alone
Hey SMIDSY, sorry for all the questions... but I'm just a bit of concern for watches that I will be getting and I'm guessing others will be curious as well.
1. Why did you tear this movement apart? Was it just out of curiosity or was there something wrong with the movement (ie. was it running slow/fast or not winding properly...etc)?
2. What is your personal preference regarding watches we get from the dealers? Should we leave it alone if it is running fine or service it ASAP?
1. Why did you tear this movement apart? Was it just out of curiosity or was there something wrong with the movement (ie. was it running slow/fast or not winding properly...etc)?
2. What is your personal preference regarding watches we get from the dealers? Should we leave it alone if it is running fine or service it ASAP?
G30
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This is EXCELLENT Smidsy. Once again, I've learned something. I just bought a 42mm PO with the nickel plated "Swiss" 2824. I bought it primarily because a lot of posts don't point to a discernable difference and I just think the nickel looks "perdy". If I can save $50 and maybe have a more reliable piece, then I'm all for it.
Thank you for all your endeavors.
Thank you for all your endeavors.
No problem ask away!
Basically whilst the movement was running according to the vibrograf data fully wound the amplitude was very low and the stem was sticky so i wanted to find out why. Basically the movement 'could' have been left in there BUT I though this was as good a time as any to tear a 'swiss' movement down.
Hmm personally I always get the watches timed on a vibrograf through my work - some dealers now do this as part of QC... at the same time I get the gaskets greased, the watch regulated and pressure tested. A so called 'spa' treatment.
I think servicing initially is a waste of time and money especially as the clone movements I have seen in comparison to this swiss one have all been relatively OK....
I'm glad you found it helpful! I'm sure some swiss movements will perform better than this one... BUT why chance it AND pay premium!
I'm currently getting the parts I need to 'repair' this one.
Basically whilst the movement was running according to the vibrograf data fully wound the amplitude was very low and the stem was sticky so i wanted to find out why. Basically the movement 'could' have been left in there BUT I though this was as good a time as any to tear a 'swiss' movement down.
Hmm personally I always get the watches timed on a vibrograf through my work - some dealers now do this as part of QC... at the same time I get the gaskets greased, the watch regulated and pressure tested. A so called 'spa' treatment.
I think servicing initially is a waste of time and money especially as the clone movements I have seen in comparison to this swiss one have all been relatively OK....
I'm glad you found it helpful! I'm sure some swiss movements will perform better than this one... BUT why chance it AND pay premium!
I'm currently getting the parts I need to 'repair' this one.
amaaaaazing post smids, great to put the 'swiss' rumour to rest (atleast in this watch), thats has been one of the best technical posts i've seen for a while, keep up the great work.
Awesome post Smidsy man!!!
Totally agreeing with you there. I think people in general don't give whole chinese movements proper credit. The few disassembly of the seagull I seen are relatively good.
I think the question now is that are all chinese "Swiss" ETAs being made the same way? Or does any of the rep factories actually source ETAs or Sellitas from legit sources? :thinking:
Totally agreeing with you there. I think people in general don't give whole chinese movements proper credit. The few disassembly of the seagull I seen are relatively good.
I think the question now is that are all chinese "Swiss" ETAs being made the same way? Or does any of the rep factories actually source ETAs or Sellitas from legit sources? :thinking:
BRAVO!!!!!
Smidsy, i for one truly appreciate this tear down. I'm a big believer in really knowing what we get and making an educated decision. THANK YOU!
I would like to be greedy and ask you to do a tear down of an advertised Clone movt so it can finally be put to rest that going "Clone" is ultimately the smarter decision.
Smidsy, i for one truly appreciate this tear down. I'm a big believer in really knowing what we get and making an educated decision. THANK YOU!
I would like to be greedy and ask you to do a tear down of an advertised Clone movt so it can finally be put to rest that going "Clone" is ultimately the smarter decision.
yuo're all welcome and thank you
I just checked and the movement was made in 2000 between September and October.... according to its serial number
the nickle plating is common on tissot and some eta models it is not indicative in any way of the quality of the movement
so Im I going to have to teardown another movement this time the 2836 clone
I just checked and the movement was made in 2000 between September and October.... according to its serial number
the nickle plating is common on tissot and some eta models it is not indicative in any way of the quality of the movement
so Im I going to have to teardown another movement this time the 2836 clone
That's a pretty old movement there. Looks like they put motor oil in the keyless works.
yeah, this one is really bad. Seing as much oil on wheels in the automatic bloc is not that common.
Hopefully all the swiss movements in reps are not that bad.
If it saves you some time... this is one done by lysanderxiii from watchuseek.
A direct comparison of seagull TY2130, Hangzhou 6300 and ETA 2824-2
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html
This is a seagull
Comparison of the three plates
I think what the rep makers use are the same seagull and hangzhou 2824 clones movements. Unless they offer an inferior grade stuff to rep makers... we should expect of getting pretty similar stuff.
Small rep mods like decorated rotors should not differ the over all quality. No pricing incentive for the rep makers or "chino-Swiss" movement assemblers to take apart the movement for no reason.
This is interesting... these are pretty old stuff. I believe we can reasonably suspect that these movements could either be inferior parts watch that ETA rejected or even ... dare I say, sourced from watches being sent in for service from unsuspecting gen owners ... service person swap these with a less expensive Hangzhou 6300 and the gen sold back the old dirty movements.... there is a price incentive.
I did not know that. Thanks for correcting me. Do you know how can one distinguish the different ETA grades from looking at the movement alone? Standard, Elaboré, Top and Chronomètre. Special marking or surface finishing perhaps.
Never mind, answered some of my own question. LOL
EC - Economique (nickel plated with Etachoc shock protection)
ST - Standard (also with Etachoc shock protection and ETASTABLE Hairspring threatment)
EL - Elaboré(with Incabloc shock protection and basic decoration [not sure what deco])
T - Top (based on the Elaboré with "assortments chronometer")
A direct comparison of seagull TY2130, Hangzhou 6300 and ETA 2824-2
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html
This is a seagull
Comparison of the three plates
I think what the rep makers use are the same seagull and hangzhou 2824 clones movements. Unless they offer an inferior grade stuff to rep makers... we should expect of getting pretty similar stuff.
Small rep mods like decorated rotors should not differ the over all quality. No pricing incentive for the rep makers or "chino-Swiss" movement assemblers to take apart the movement for no reason.
I just checked and the movement was made in 2000 between September and October.... according to its serial number
This is interesting... these are pretty old stuff. I believe we can reasonably suspect that these movements could either be inferior parts watch that ETA rejected or even ... dare I say, sourced from watches being sent in for service from unsuspecting gen owners ... service person swap these with a less expensive Hangzhou 6300 and the gen sold back the old dirty movements.... there is a price incentive.
the nickle plating is common on tissot and some eta models it is not indicative in any way of the quality of the movement
I did not know that. Thanks for correcting me. Do you know how can one distinguish the different ETA grades from looking at the movement alone? Standard, Elaboré, Top and Chronomètre. Special marking or surface finishing perhaps.
Never mind, answered some of my own question. LOL
EC - Economique (nickel plated with Etachoc shock protection)
ST - Standard (also with Etachoc shock protection and ETASTABLE Hairspring threatment)
EL - Elaboré(with Incabloc shock protection and basic decoration [not sure what deco])
T - Top (based on the Elaboré with "assortments chronometer")
Nice tear down. Is this you doing the work or one of your employees? I am glad you made this post. It raises more questions about our hobby and the ole ETA vs. Clone questions for sure.
Where is the serial number? I ask because I didn't see it. Usually the manufactures use their own engraving or at least I thought.
I personally don't mind a second hand ETA in a rep as long as it isn't this dirty. I bet the rep factory cobbled this one together which is a shame.
Sticky?? We will see.
Where is the serial number? I ask because I didn't see it. Usually the manufactures use their own engraving or at least I thought.
I personally don't mind a second hand ETA in a rep as long as it isn't this dirty. I bet the rep factory cobbled this one together which is a shame.
Sticky?? We will see.
I have 2 German watches that are both chronometre grade movements and the finish is unreal on both of them. This is where a genuine Eta will part company with any clone. But in the rep world I would never pay more for a so-called swiss movement. If you want to insure a swiss movement, then buy it separately and install it yourself.
Aside from the finish the chronometres are each numbered. Here is one of them.
Excellent post Smidsy, we're all appreciative of your efforts and the information you shared with us.
Good luck, Phil :thumbsup:
Good luck, Phil :thumbsup: