THE PANERAI PROBLEM - Fakes so good you can't tell - PANERAI SUPER FAKES

[reyes_statefarm]

Not valid point. If you can't service it, or no one wants to service it, buy a new one.

Servicing a gen Rolex = >$500
Buy a new BK = $500


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I have a complete different view. You are telling me to spend $500 for a watch that is potentially unrepairable and/or serviceable (from most local watchsmiths) and buy a new one if that old one breaks because it costs only ... $500.
I’m not saying rep is bad (I love reps) but your point is funny. it seems like owning a rep is an expensive hobby.


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[tripdog]

Ok, well I'll be in HK in a few months time. I'll check out a Panerai that I own against the "fake" and if it's identical then how?
I'm certainly not going to buy online and get baited and switched.

Wait, I don't know what the forum rules are.. But surely someone on here has purchased a near 1:1 replica. Something that if you looked at the movement and looked at the dial you couldn't tell real from fake?

Wait now I think you're just wrong.. I have 3 REAL Panerai watches, I'm telling you that I can't seem to tell the difference from images I've been sent. I WILL go see a fake in person and I'll compare my real one to said fake. IF I can't tell the difference on observation then it's near 1:1... If I buy it and it works exactly like the original then it's 1:1.
I won't be able to go to HK for a few months though, so I'll have to report back if anyone is interested.

There is still a chance they're trying to bait and switch me. But meeting up in person will obviously be the safest way to determine it.

I'll say it again, 1:1 replicas do not exist. Just because you think it's 1:1 doesn't mean it is - your ability to spot discrepancies/anomalies is in direct relation to your knowledge of the subject.
There are quite a few people on this forum capable of spotting fake Panerai, I'm not one of them, and I doubt you are either. Just because you have 3 (three) real (REAL) Panerai doesn't mean you are capable of spotting fakes, possssion of a gen doesn't mean squat - just go to the Rolex Forum if you don't believe me - it's the blind leading the blind.
You'd do better to read Ales' Panerai thread and choose something from a TD here.

 

[caleb]

Archie is the (nutjob) guy in the video this thread was originally about.
I don't doubt your integrity @caleb, but there is a whiff of hyperbole about most Archie Luxury videos.
(See the original post for Archie video)

Ps: if you haven't been here for a while, definitely take a look at the Trusted Dealers section.
Take a look at the PAMs they are offering. I am fairly sure our Trusted Dealers have access to the best PAM reps available, and the element of trust means what you see is what you get 99% of the time. See how a Trusted Dealer compares with the dealer you're speaking to.

Just my 2c.

Thanks for the tips.. I will report back after my trip to HK in a few months. I'm obviously not going just to look at watches. But I can spend a day doing it since I'm curious. And I've also already decided not to buy the watch from said member on the other forum.

Will also take a look at your trusted dealers to see how good said reps are. The point is, I don't want a rep... I just don't want to be cheated buying a second hand or in my case parallel import watch.

 

[caleb]

Maybe I'll pose the question in another way.. Can anyone direct me to the best 335 rep and 233 rep they know about?

 

[ceesq]

Maybe I'll pose the question in another way.. Can anyone direct me to the best 335 rep and 233 rep they know about?

They dont exist in a good quality
if you have the chance go to the Guangzhou watch market instead of HK

 

[caleb]

They dont exist in a good quality
if you have the chance go to the Guangzhou watch market instead of HK

So if a seller is selling a 335 (claiming it's real) and it looks legit. I mean if I compared the dial and movement to images from the net/panerai's site and it's identical to the eye. Then it's 100% real? And the seller doesn't have some high quality fake, because high quality 335 fakes don't exist?

 

[ShiroTenshi]

So if a seller is selling a 335 (claiming it's real) and it looks legit. I mean if I compared the dial and movement to images from the net/panerai's site and it's identical to the eye. Then it's 100% real? And the seller doesn't have some high quality fake, because high quality 335 fakes don't exist?

For everything, buy the seller first before you buy their stuff. They can always show u something and send u another thing.


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[ShiroTenshi]

I have a complete different view. You are telling me to spend $500 for a watch that is potentially unrepairable and/or serviceable (from most local watchsmiths) and buy a new one if that old one breaks because it costs only ... $500.
I’m not saying rep is bad (I love reps) but your point is funny. it seems like owning a rep is an expensive hobby.


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Just saying that the serviceability point u put up does not really make the gen much better than a rep.

The point you put up is that gen is more serviceable than rep, as little number of watchsmiths are willing to work on them.
So my point of argument is if u forgo repair and buy a new one it is still actually cheaper than servicing a gen.
Also not forgetting that you can always use the old rep for parts or sell it to members for parts to cover cost so the amount out of ur pocket is in fact lesser.

In fact to me who work on my own watches, serviceability is much better with the rep than with a gen Rolex, because I can get the whole movement or the parts for 2824/2836 so much easier than parts for Rolex cal.3135.

Just 2c

 

[cranium]

Panerai's real problem has little to do with reps, albeit a significant issue. It has more to do with Richemont disenfranchising their collector base by coming out with one gazillion new Special Editions every year that look exactly like the year before. Their secondary stock has sunk drastically ... to the point that used 111's can be found sub $3k.

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[neville]

[QUOTE="Major Tom, post: 3346250, member: 108546"/QUOTE]

Interesting information but the video guy's mother clearly forgot to wash out his mouth with carbolic. I lost count of the 'F-Bombs'.

 

[jamsie]

So I'm kinda annoyed.. I wanted to buy a PAM335 from a member of another forum. And not wanting to be cheated by a fake I looked up panerai fakes. And most of the things I found were of poor quality. Then I happened upon a site that had $600-$900 fakes and they looked identical. SOOO I emailed them to ask if I could see an actual photo because I didn't want to be baited and switched. And they sent me a bunch of photos of a watch that I would actually get. The images were so identical to a real PAM335, I am now worried and won't buy another Panerai on the used market no matter what.

They even told me I could select my serial number and it would take a few days but they could get it for me and change out the back. And the case is actually ceramic with a titanium case back. Weight is the same everything is the same according to the dealer. They even encouraged me to come down in person since I frequently fly to HK, and bring a scale to weight, and a loupe to examine. Whatever I wanted no pressure.
They said all the movements work exactly the same, and that I am welcome to come and test all I want. And that they have quite a few models I can choose from that are identical 1:1 copies.


So at this point, WTF... I guess I can buy real watches for the actual Panerai store, though I am reminded of a story I heard about a lady who was going to sue Hermes but got hushed up (given compensation from them) because a sales associate sold her a fake Birkin in the store. And she only found out when she went to get it cleaned while in France. It was big in the social circles here, though never really came to light on the internet.

Kinda makes me wonder how long they've been at the 1:1 rep game... How long have they've been identical? I have a dot dial I bought about 5 years ago of a "reputable member of a watch forum" and now I'm just not sure about anything..

That's because REAL or GEN Panerai watches are manufactured in China, no one told you?! Panerai Switzerland just provides QA and packing... just joking...maybe


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[caleb]

For everything, buy the seller first before you buy their stuff. They can always show u something and send u another thing.


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Sorry if I was confusing.. I'm back on the guy who lives near me.
Since everyone on here seems convinced that the HK people will bait and switch me. And that no good close 1:1 rep exists for the 335, should I feel a bit safer buying the used "real" 335 off of the local seller then?

As in, is everyone certain that if I go look at the 335 and it looks good front and back (good as in matches the panerai.com stock pictures) that I should be assured that it's real and I should buy it? It's $13k so just to clarify this guy is selling what he says is a real watch.

Basically the whole reason I even started up my rep research again is because I didn't want to get cheated from a reseller of the actual real 335. So if you're all telling me there is no close rep 335 then I should be safe buying the 335 off of the used seller of "real" panerais?

 

[Euro2140]

I bought fakes before to, now I save and buy original ones, but only with movements developed by the brands ,not,as the man say ,ETA movements
ETA is used in a lot of watch brands,sometimes little bit modified for Each model,but it stay an ETA movement.



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[ShiroTenshi]

Sorry if I was confusing.. I'm back on the guy who lives near me.
Since everyone on here seems convinced that the HK people will bait and switch me. And that no good close 1:1 rep exists for the 335, should I feel a bit safer buying the used "real" 335 off of the local seller then?

As in, is everyone certain that if I go look at the 335 and it looks good front and back (good as in matches the panerai.com stock pictures) that I should be assured that it's real and I should buy it? It's $13k so just to clarify this guy is selling what he says is a real watch.

Basically the whole reason I even started up my rep research again is because I didn't want to get cheated from a reseller of the actual real 335. So if you're all telling me there is no close rep 335 then I should be safe buying the 335 off of the used seller of "real" panerais?

Go to ur local guy, take a few good photos, post here, and we will tell u of its good to go.
We will hate to see u scammed of 13k mate.

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[caleb]

Go to ur local guy, take a few good photos, post here, and we will tell u of its good to go.
We will hate to see u scammed of 13k mate.

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Alright.. Will do in a few days time, thanks!

 

[jamsie]

Sorry if I was confusing.. I'm back on the guy who lives near me.
Since everyone on here seems convinced that the HK people will bait and switch me. And that no good close 1:1 rep exists for the 335, should I feel a bit safer buying the used "real" 335 off of the local seller then?

As in, is everyone certain that if I go look at the 335 and it looks good front and back (good as in matches the panerai.com stock pictures) that I should be assured that it's real and I should buy it? It's $13k so just to clarify this guy is selling what he says is a real watch.

Basically the whole reason I even started up my rep research again is because I didn't want to get cheated from a reseller of the actual real 335. So if you're all telling me there is no close rep 335 then I should be safe buying the 335 off of the used seller of "real" panerais?

Any chance the two of you can meet up at a Panerai boutique?, I know some folks will do this before buying to authenticate


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[mysterio]

Sorry if I was confusing.. I'm back on the guy who lives near me.
Since everyone on here seems convinced that the HK people will bait and switch me. And that no good close 1:1 rep exists for the 335, should I feel a bit safer buying the used "real" 335 off of the local seller then?

As in, is everyone certain that if I go look at the 335 and it looks good front and back (good as in matches the panerai.com stock pictures) that I should be assured that it's real and I should buy it? It's $13k so just to clarify this guy is selling what he says is a real watch.

Basically the whole reason I even started up my rep research again is because I didn't want to get cheated from a reseller of the actual real 335. So if you're all telling me there is no close rep 335 then I should be safe buying the 335 off of the used seller of "real" panerais?

Well, we're not saying HK people will bait and switch you, but if it isn't the Panerai boutique or some reputable dealer, then there is always the chance that the seller may scam you, wherever that may be.

I want to be clear in that, in so far as my experience with PAM replicas go, there has been no good replica of the PAM335. Not saying there isn't just saying within the realm of my experience in the replica fora there hasn't been anything even remotely looking like a proper replica of that watch.

First, the dial cut-out on the rep always exposes more than the gen. Second the movement hasn't been replicated yet (although theoretically a cosmetic version may be done with an A7750 movement with the balance wheel @11). But maybe there is an independent maker out there who can do such a replica, who knows? We just haven't seen one. So we're saying there isn't but not discounting the possibility that there could be one.

Anyway, some pictures of the actual watch from your seller will shed some light on the matter.

 

[Backt0thefuture]

Not valid point. If you can't service it, or no one wants to service it, buy a new one.

Servicing a gen Rolex = >$500
Buy a new BK = $500


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What's a BK? And I feel if your getting a closed case back Rep Pam then your good to go.

 

[bb8]

I think of it this way.

Reps - the best possible, most accurate to originals - will always have tells and small differences to trained eyes. We all know this.

It's like identical twins. To the people most familiar with the twins - they can tell who's who in a second. One has slightly smaller or wider-set eyes, one has a mole, one's nose is more narrow than the other. At first, even second or third glance, it's very difficult to discern. But the family and friends who spend time with both twins not only know to look for these tiny discrepancies, but other things like their inflection, posture, body language, etc are going to give them away. Say each twin has a distinct style of dress and they swapped for a day. It would even fool those closest to them - until they spent a bit of time, or spoke with them, etc. And once you can tell them apart so easily - it's very obvious to you and you probably don't quite see how these two individuals could possibly be perceived as identical.

 

[mysterio]

What's a BK? And I feel if your getting a closed case back Rep Pam then your good to go.

BK is short for @bklm1234, a very well known modder who has his own section here in the forum.

I think of it this way.

Reps - the best possible, most accurate to originals - will always have tells and small differences to trained eyes. We all know this.

It's like identical twins. To the people most familiar with the twins - they can tell who's who in a second. One has slightly smaller or wider-set eyes, one has a mole, one's nose is more narrow than the other. At first, even second or third glance, it's very difficult to discern. But the family and friends who spend time with both twins not only know to look for these tiny discrepancies, but other things like their inflection, posture, body language, etc are going to give them away. Say each twin has a distinct style of dress and they swapped for a day. It would even fool those closest to them - until they spent a bit of time, or spoke with them, etc. And once you can tell them apart so easily - it's very obvious to you and you probably don't quite see how these two individuals could possibly be perceived as identical.

That analogy reminds me of when people ask me what's my favorite PAM. It's like asking who's your favorite child. :lol: