The 1016: The Under Appreciated Thread

[Karbon74]

actually, we would be bored doing a microbrand.
Who wants to run a factory. that sounds like a day job

A customisation shop like Blaken more fun.


edit : i guess we are already doing this, of sorts

 

[369mafia]

 

[369mafia]

 

[pullthat92]

Now, I'm going to bet that someone in this thread will even attempt casting.

 

[1016 lover]

I found a stupid good deal on a 20W laser, so engraving metal should now be in the realm of possibilities. It's sturdy as hell, I'm actually slightly scared of it, because a little bit of carelessness could be catastrophic (fire, blindness, loss of limb, etc...you know, the usual things that watch hobbyists kindergarten teachers, and librarians worry about...). I actually have a protective enclosure on order, and have made a promise to myself not to use it until it arrives. Cliff Notes: It now has a honeycomb metal baffle, stainless steel plate, some leftover ceramic tile, a sheet of aluminum foil (why not?), and 3/4" of plywood underneath it, lol.

ENJOYWOOD

ENJOY THE JOY OF WOOD AND WOODWORKING DIY

www.amazon.com

This thing makes Goldfinger look like a potzer.

It isn't powerful enough to deeply engrave Stainless Steel, but could possibly be enough to engrave cases and backs, with enough passes.

That said, it IS powerful enough to deeply engrave, or cut, aluminum. So now cutom pad printed dials are within reach. I'm still researching the process, but thinking I have a dial pad printer in my future...

Cutting the plates with laser:

Printing the dial, sometimes using multiple plates:

I seriously am enjoying the process more than the product, by far.

So I'd prepare a blank dial (polish or paint), scan a dial into Adobe or similar, tweak it into a high res vector file, create the plates, print the dial, and it should be about as professional as you can get this side of Geneva...gilt showing through a black dial with raised, glossy white printing.

It's still very early in the process, but as I learn, I will post results here.

Long story short: I think the later model Explorer dials and odd variants might now be within reach...maybe even stuff like Karbon's Railmaster or others. And technically, I should be able to "correct" whatever flaws we find in the offerings from Raffles, HR, Yuki, etc.

I see myself living in Vietnam in 10 years, lol.

In french, sorry, cant found the english version if it exist...

https://www.microprint.ch/pdf/Technique-de-tampographie.pdf

 

[dpd3672]

I've been doing a lot of "foundation building," but very little "watch building" for the past month or so....and every time I think I'm almost done, I complicate the project and have to revise the plan.

I've got almost everything I need in place, however, to really start doing some "better" builds...not just putting a movement into a Raffles case and adding a dial with some simple patina, which is about all I'd done before. Once it starts, I'm hoping things start moving quickly, as I'll have the tools, space, and materials organized and in one location where setting up and taking down the workstation won't be half of the time I spend on a project every time I get a couple hours to myself. (Short version, I won't have to wait until after dinner to get everything assembled at the dinner table, then put it all away before bedtime).

I've got a beautiful Space Dweller case that's about ready to build, thanks to our own 369 Mafia's help, a Commando build that WAS ready to go, until Raffles decided to up their "hands" game and put it on hold again, and some gen 34mm 5500 cases that will eventually be a photo essay on the relative merits of gen vs Raffles vs Yuki vs Mochacha vs DIY that should be done in the intermediate future.

Hoever, this project started out as a thought experiment, but is probably going to be high on the list, if not the first thing that I build next. I love the predecessor of the 1016, the earliest watch that can claim to be an "Explorer," the 6098. It's the watch that (maybe, probably, opinions are mixed) earned the Explorer its name, worn to the top of Mt. Everest for the first time. This is the Hillary "Explorer" before they called it an Explorer, and the one that Hillary and Norgay had when they reached the summit:


Full disclosure, it's probable that while Norgay, the Sherpa, wore this watch, Hillary probably was wearing a Smith's, like this:


While the 6098 above is on my grail list, looking over possibilities for building one, I came across this picture. I can't, for the life of me, find another, so it probably wasn't a big seller or popular watch. It's a 6098 with a different face and "Everest" branding (my research shows that Rolex put the "Everest" label on a lot of Oyster Perpetuals, probably to capitalize on the hype surrounding Hillary's climb). I've posted it before, but it's become a project that's slowly starting to materialize. Photo is from this excellent article, in case anyone might be interested in some very cool Explorer history.


Since as far as I can tell, this watch only exists in one photograph, lol, I had to do the best I could with what I have. I opened the watch in some editing programs, and using my newly developing skills, I tweaked it and cleaned it up the best I could. I also called on a pro to help with the finishing touches. What I came up with was this, which should work as the basis for a waterslide decal gilt dial, although I'm also going to experiment with a few other techniques I'm learning, but it's close...as close as the rep of a watch that probably 100 people in the world have ever actually seen in real life can or needs to be, lol.


I've got an old gen 6604 bubbleback case that's not correct, but very close, and am trying to find hands on ALIX that look right...nothing is super close, but these are the ones I'll go with till I can find better:


It's not going to be a AAAAA+ 1:1 SUPER CLONE by any means, but I think I've got most of the high points covered, and it's potentially a very faithful copy, in spirit, at least.
And if you read this far and found this somewhat interesting, I'll end with this. The Smith's watch company got out of watches shortly after they were worn to Everest. Recently, a guy bought the rights to use the name, and they starting producing this watch, which is a pretty cool fusion of both watches that can claim to be the first to reach the top of the world. It's very reasonably priced, decent quality, and has some cool DNA from two very respective lines (3, if you count the Citizen movement).

 

[369mafia]

I've been doing a lot of "foundation building," but very little "watch building" for the past month or so....and every time I think I'm almost done, I complicate the project and have to revise the plan.

I've got almost everything I need in place, however, to really start doing some "better" builds...not just putting a movement into a Raffles case and adding a dial with some simple patina, which is about all I'd done before. Once it starts, I'm hoping things start moving quickly, as I'll have the tools, space, and materials organized and in one location where setting up and taking down the workstation won't be half of the time I spend on a project every time I get a couple hours to myself. (Short version, I won't have to wait until after dinner to get everything assembled at the dinner table, then put it all away before bedtime).

I've got a beautiful Space Dweller case that's about ready to build, thanks to our own 369 Mafia's help, a Commando build that WAS ready to go, until Raffles decided to up their "hands" game and put it on hold again, and some gen 34mm 5500 cases that will eventually be a photo essay on the relative merits of gen vs Raffles vs Yuki vs Mochacha vs DIY that should be done in the intermediate future.

Hoever, this project started out as a thought experiment, but is probably going to be high on the list, if not the first thing that I build next. I love the predecessor of the 1016, the earliest watch that can claim to be an "Explorer," the 6098. It's the watch that (maybe, probably, opinions are mixed) earned the Explorer its name, worn to the top of Mt. Everest for the first time. This is the Hillary "Explorer" before they called it an Explorer, and the one that Hillary and Norgay had when they reached the summit:


Full disclosure, it's probable that while Norgay, the Sherpa, wore this watch, Hillary probably was wearing a Smith's, like this:


While the 6098 above is on my grail list, looking over possibilities for building one, I came across this picture. I can't, for the life of me, find another, so it probably wasn't a big seller or popular watch. It's a 6098 with a different face and "Everest" branding (my research shows that Rolex put the "Everest" label on a lot of Oyster Perpetuals, probably to capitalize on the hype surrounding Hillary's climb). I've posted it before, but it's become a project that's slowly starting to materialize. Photo is from this excellent article, in case anyone might be interested in some very cool Explorer history.


Since as far as I can tell, this watch only exists in one photograph, lol, I had to do the best I could with what I have. I opened the watch in some editing programs, and using my newly developing skills, I tweaked it and cleaned it up the best I could. I also called on a pro to help with the finishing touches. What I came up with was this, which should work as the basis for a waterslide decal gilt dial, although I'm also going to experiment with a few other techniques I'm learning, but it's close...as close as the rep of a watch that probably 100 people in the world have ever actually seen in real life can or needs to be, lol.


I've got an old gen 6604 bubble back case that's not correct, but very close, and am trying to find hands on ALIX that look right...nothing is super close, but these are the ones I'll go with till I can find better:


It's not going to be a AAAAA+ 1:1 SUPER CLONE by any means, but I think I've got most of the high points covered, and it's potentially a very faithful copy, in spirit, at least.

Familiar with that watch. Thats the only pic I have seen it also, and Ive looked for more.
The red text does make a statement on that dial .
I agree they defiantly double stamped it to capitalize on the Everest campaign and hype
I think I prefer the shape of the hands you have more. more of an elongated dauphine than leaf.

Excited to see the progress on this. I really fell hard down this rabbit hole a few years back . I find it interesting on the loose variations of these earlier pieces.

 

[dpd3672]

Familiar with that watch. Thats the only pic I have seen it also, and Ive looked for more.
The red text does make a statement on that dial .
I agree they defiantly double stamped it to capitalize on the Everest campaign and hype
I think I prefer the shape of the hands you have more. more of an elongated dauphine than leaf.

Excited to see the progress on this. I really fell hard down this rabbit hole a few years back . I find it interesting on the loose variations of these earlier pieces.

I'm finding that, like Karbon and the Railmaster project, it's not so easy when there's not a trail already blazed by others on how to put one of these together...which parts are best and where to get them, etc.

It's easy when you can just order a Raffles case set for a 1016 or 5513...it's a bit harder when you try to order off the menu and have to a la carte every piece. There's a lot of points where "acceptable compromise" has to be good enough, and places where a little DIY skill goes a long way. With this, the dial is good, but not perfect (and I haven't even tried printing it yet, lol), the case is close adn from the same era, and the hands are similar...not as slender and long, tapered wider at the extreme end, but roughly the same design. The good thing is, any leather strap should be ok, so there's that...ha ha.

I haven't even started this build, just laying the groundwork and trying to anticipate and eliminate any obstacles I might have, but I think it's absolutely doable. Currently, I think the red "EVEREST" part will be the hardest, as the waterslide decal threads struggled with the red Subs, so I'll have to come up with something innovative. Probably will do the dial as a waterslide gilt dial first, then pad print the "EVEREST" on afterword...then it'll be glossy and raised, like it's supposed to be, rather than dull and flat like many dials are.

 

[Karbon74]

Once it starts, I'm hoping things start moving quickly, as I'll have the tools, space, and materials organized and in one location where setting up and taking down the workstation won't be half of the time I spend on a project every time I get a couple hours to myself. (Short version, I won't have to wait until after dinner to get everything assembled at the dinner table, then put it all away before bedtime)

that's me too

Also maybe you are trying to pursue too many things at the same time, plus I feel you are a "I can make this a little bit better" kind of guy

Just ship me a couple of vinyls and dials already. I will take the MVP

 

[316lad]

Everyone busy at the forges today - great stuff.
"Hammer Time" for me with this old pocket watch Barrel Bridge arbor hole. . .

 

[dpd3672]

that's me too

Also maybe you are trying to pursue too many things at the same time, plus I feel you are a "I can make this a little bit better" kind of guy

Just ship me a couple of vinyls and dials already. I will take the MVP

Brother the simplest project can become a lifelong vocation if I can't finally learn to leave well enough alone, lol.


I'll be finishing up the "workshop" all week, and heading out of town next weekend for a trade show thing. I should be up and running in early February. And I have to say, there's a LOT to be optimistic about. The new vector files came back and they're super high resolution and the lines are damn near perfect. The new engraving tools are much more precise than what I was using, and there's some new decals/stickers/magnets I just got that should push the project a little farther along. I can't share SVG files here, but here's aN enlarged comparison (in jpg format, sadly) to show the improvement. The left is a vector file (white dial with black writing). On the right is the older, jpg files I was working with previously (black dial, white writing):



The lines are much cleaner and less pixelated, and should translate to a print that will survive damn near microscopic scrutiny. I'll use the same files for the dial prints and the luming masks, so it should make perfect luming a trivial job.

EDIT: On second look, I think I'm showing two different watch images, lol...the font for SCOC is different...but it still shows the difference in the svg files over the jpg.

 

[369mafia]

I'm finding that, like Karbon and the Railmaster project, it's not so easy when there's not a trail already blazed by others on how to put one of these together...which parts are best and where to get them, etc.

It's easy when you can just order a Raffles case set for a 1016 or 5513...it's a bit harder when you try to order off the menu and have to a la carte every piece. There's a lot of points where "acceptable compromise" has to be good enough, and places where a little DIY skill goes a long way. With this, the dial is good, but not perfect (and I haven't even tried printing it yet, lol), the case is close adn from the same era, and the hands are similar...not as slender and long, tapered wider at the extreme end, but roughly the same design. The good thing is, any leather strap should be ok, so there's that...ha ha.

I haven't even started this build, just laying the groundwork and trying to anticipate and eliminate any obstacles I might have, but I think it's absolutely doable. Currently, I think the red "EVEREST" part will be the hardest, as the waterslide decal threads struggled with the red Subs, so I'll have to come up with something innovative. Probably will do the dial as a waterslide gilt dial first, then pad print the "EVEREST" on afterword...then it'll be glossy and raised, like it's supposed to be, rather than dull and flat like many dials are.

in terms of the red text could you not apply a red paint to the brass dial in the position to where you will see it through the decal ? . I know bart said there were challanges to doing this but I think if you were mask off the section on the dial plate. spray a light coat of red and then apply the decal over it ? I dont think the applied paint thickness would add that much to the dial surface that it would be visible once the decal applied. ?

 

[dpd3672]

in terms of the red text could you not apply a red paint to the brass dial in the position to where you will see it through the decal ? . I know bart said there were challanges to doing this but I think if you were mask off the section on the dial plate. spray a light coat of red and then apply the decal over it ? I dont think the applied paint thickness would add that much to the dial surface that it would be visible once the decal applied. ?

That's something I considered, as well as adding it in with a red sharpie or paint pen afterward, but IIRC, somewhere in the LONG thread about decal print dials on the other forum, someone tried it with less than satisfactory results. I think manodeoro has pulled it off, so it's doable, I just have to experiment until it's right. I'm thinking there's potential with a piece of masking tape, cut with the laser or precision cutter from the original image, and carefully placed on the finished dial might also be a good option.

Because raised, glossy print on a black dial is something that a lot of our rep dials lack, even the better ones. They look dull and flat, and it's a combination of textures that really gives a watch a high end, rich look. Probably one of the reasons the gilt printed flat black dials look so good.

That said, I fully expect to print this dial several dozen times before I'm happy with the result, but I'm not overly optimistic that it will be that simple.
One thing I keep reminding myself is that the original thread on the RWG forum is almost 8 years old, and the technology...especially what's within reach of home hobbyists...is light years ahead of what we had then. I think Bart Cordell mentions he's been using the decals since 2008...before high resolution printers, before film free waterslide decals, before computer controlled precision cutting machines, and before laser engravers were within the reach of DIYers. I'm too old to ever reach the level of experience some of the modders in this culture have achieved, but I'm not above taking the shortcuts that technology offers. Those guys have way more skill than I do, but I'm hoping that the better tools I'm able to take advantage of levels the playing field somewhat, and even gives me a slight advantage at times.

Ultimately, I suspect it will wind up being a gilt dial...probably a waterslide decal, but possibly a laser etched painted dial, or a "sticker" that's cut, rather than printed, if I can sort out a process that works. And the red font will probably wind up being pad-printed (I'll delete the "Everest" font from the image, then print in red over the black dial). This watch will ultimately wind up costing almost as much as a gen once it's all done and the cost of tools and software and materials is counted, but when it's over, I'll have a repeatable process that's adaptable to almost anything...so all a Sub or 1016 or Breitling or whatever will require is a good scan of the dial, a bit of prep work for the prints, and it should be good to go.

 

[brahmabull]

Love making this thread my Saturday afternoon read. You guys are amazing!

 

[Karbon74]

Love making this thread my Saturday afternoon read. You guys are amazing!

i came across this thread in my early days on RWI. I read 5 pages and dropped, saying to myself "the guys are nuts"

...one year after, look at me...

 

[316lad]

Love making this thread my Saturday afternoon read. You guys are amazing!

Aaah,
We’re just monkeying around. . .

 

[369mafia]

I still am impressed with the quality and appearance of the Raffles 6610 dial its a beauty!!

 

[brahmabull]

I still am impressed with the quality and appearance of the Raffles 6610 dial its a beauty!!

Trying very hard to be disciplined every time you guys post pictures of your awesome builds….. I have to say that the 1016 on a jubilee has piqued my interest even more…..

 

[brahmabull]

i came across this thread in my early days on RWI. I read 5 pages and dropped, saying to myself "the guys are nuts"

...one year after, look at me...

lol. Your builds are quite incredible. I’m shocked you have only been building for a year. Maybe one day I will have the courage to start a build. Still lots to learn before crossing that bridge.

 

[brahmabull]

Aaah,
We’re just monkeying around. . .

Why does this picture scream: take the plunge. You know you want one. Come to the dark side.’