The 1016: The Under Appreciated Thread

[dpd3672]

Great to see another pantograph on the forum!!

How much you wanna bet @Karbon74 joins us?

We're gonna need a pantograph thread, lol.

 

[dpd3672]

would that fit into a 1016 for engraving?

It should, it's what Rolex (allegedly) used. You'd need to make some kind of fixture to hold the case steady and aligned, but I'm thinking a small vice, like for a drill press, would work as a basis, and a 3D printer (and a few hours of head scratching) would fill in the rest.

Already "sciencing the shit out of it," lol, will post whatever I come up with, if it works, to save anyone else the trouble.

 

[Singapore9]

Great to see another pantograph on the forum!!

How much you wanna bet @Karbon74 joins us?

We're gonna need a pantograph thread, lol.

There is one somewhere but it has gone a bit quiet and the salt water etching thread has taken over

 

[dpd3672]

I thought the inside of the caseback was stamped, but looking at some listings on Ebay, these look like they were done with a drag engraver as well. There's a fixture that I picked up for another project that's for engraving in an arc or circle. I think that they used that and straight line font in two ratios (sizes) for the case backs. They most likely had an assembly line, where one worker did the arc engraving, one did the larger font, and one did the smaller font, but it could all be done, more slowly, by one person and one machine.

 

[Karbon74]

How much you wanna bet @Karbon74 joins us?

We're gonna need a pantograph thread, lol.

I would love to. But I live in a flat (albeit quite roomy >170m2) and I am already pushing it with my existing watchmaking gear. The wife is not happy

Once the kids are in Uni, we plan to move to a house. Then I will splurge. I already am thinking about a CNC machine and a lathe. maybe even a forge and a mecanical hammer machine.

 

[dpd3672]

I would love to. But I live in a flat (albeit quite roomy >170m2) and I am already pushing it with my existing watchmaking gear. The wife is not happy

Once the kids are in Uni, we plan to move to a house. Then I will splurge. I already am thinking about a CNC machine and a lathe. maybe even a forge and a mecanical hammer machine.

Fast forward 10 years, and we’re all going to be a little cult, living together in an abandoned monestary, with a full machine shop.

Maybe then we will finally come up with a 1570 rep movement, lol.

 

[Karbon74]

I have always wondered what I would do to keep active during retirement...now I know

 

[pf78]

assembled by @pompompurin and relumed by @manodeoro

 

[1675lover]

assembled by @pompompurin and relumed by @manodeoro

Vietnam dial + Vietnam case?
Raffles hands?

 

[pf78]

Vietnam dial + Vietnam case?
Raffles hands?

- bivintage case
- vietnam dial
- 116610 seconds hand
- rafflestime minute hand
- aliexpress hour hand

^^this is the spec list i got

 

[1675lover]

- bivintage case
- vietnam dial
- 116610 seconds hand
- rafflestime minute hand
- aliexpress hour hand

^^this is the spec list i got

Interesting combination of hands!

 

[316lad]

This is a New Hermes drag engraver. Supposedly, these are the same machines that Rolex used in the factory. The machine was $200. I'm told people are finding them for about $150, but I didn't want to wait so I got the first one I found that looked to be complete and in good condition. It actually arrived much better than the photos in the listing. I found them on Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, and Ebay. Ebay was the most expensive option, but had more to choose from, and this time of year, I just didn't have the time available to make 4 hour round trips to buy locally. Shipping was kinda outrageous, lol.

The "fonts" were about $100 each. I wound up buying two different ones, because I still can't decide if the Rolex Factory used "Regular Block" or "Condensed Block." To my eye, it looks more like "Regular," but I haven't tried doing a curved case yet, which I assume will change the width of the letters as you approach the edges, since you're engraving on a slight angle. There's also "Helvicta" and "Futura," which have more accurate looking numbers than the "Block" sets. That said, I'm stuck with what comes up for sale, so I'll keep an eye out, but very happy with what I have.

Once I figure out some kind of jig to hold the cases, I should be able to do case engravings in just a few minutes...literally, the time it takes to arrange the letters and trace them. It's pretty easy to use, once you figure it out.

I'm actually thinking this would work for the lug engravings on a 5517. Maybe the caseback engravings, but that would require a template. I think I could make one with saltwater etching, but now I'm opening yet another huge can of worms, lol.

Very exciting indeed. A lovely piece of equipment to have on the bench.
Are you going to make some sort of sliding, rotating stand so the watch can be turned in it as you engrave to allow for the curviture between lugs?

 

[Karbon74]

Very exciting indeed. A lovely piece of equipment to have on the bench.
Are you going to make some sort of sliding, rotating stand so the watch can be turned in it as you engrave to allow for the curviture between lugs?

I am guessing that the engraving stylus is mounted on a sort of spring loaded mecanism that adjusts mechanically to the curve

 

[dpd3672]

Very exciting indeed. A lovely piece of equipment to have on the bench.
Are you going to make some sort of sliding, rotating stand so the watch can be turned in it as you engrave to allow for the curviture between lugs?

I might have to, eventually, if it doesn't look right, but that's a wildly complicated thing that I'd like to avoid. Technically, it would need to be something like a small vice or clamp, that rotates along a central axis, with a type of clockwork, that would rotate the piece one space for every letter, which is probably beyond my technical abilities. New Hermes did have something similar already produced (and there are Chinese knockoffs, ironically, but the font looks wrong...more script than block lettering)...there's a machine for engraving rings that rotates the piece for every character, but I don't know if it could be adapted to a watch case...it's designed to write on the INSIDE of the ring, rather than the OUTSIDE of a watch case.

OG Ring engraver:

Chinese copy:


They also make a jig for engraving watch case backs, which will write in a circle, but it's on the wrong axis for what I need, if that makes sense...facing the watch head on, it writes on the back...parallel to the dial...not on the "top" and "bottom" between the lugs. I have one of these, but not sure it would work for between case lugs.


What I'm hoping works, instead, is basically a small jeweler's vice or drill press vice, with a "block" that I 3D print to hold the watch...maybe with a clamping mechanism, but I don't know if that's necessary.

This is the VERY rough draft of what I think will work. I'm going to try to 3D print it this week and see how it does (which means: Learning CAD software...another rabbit hole, lol). The vice I have from my drill press is 3", and probably too big to work for this, so I'll pick up a super cheap Harbor Freight/ALIX/Ebay/Amazon 1-2" vice and see how that does. a 3-4" theaded bolt and a wing nut on each side should hold it steady enough, probably with washers to spread out the load and avoid bending the plastic. If the block between the lugs is a tight fit, it should hold it along 2 axis, and the plates clamping it top and bottom should take care of the other axis.


I'm sure it will get a dozen refines before it's perfect (or as close as I can get), but it's simple enough that it shouldn't be too hard to pull off.

 

[316lad]

Yes, that's what I had in mind. Should do it perfectly.

 

[Karbon74]

I think I have a better idea for you

Use a three jaw chuck and hold the case from the inside. That could even manage rotation



That's assuming that the stylus would clear.

Another idea would be to have a wooden cylinder, slightly tapered to wedge the case from the inside. Your clamp would then lock with the cylinder flat sides.

 

[dpd3672]

I am guessing that the engraving stylus is mounted on a sort of spring loaded mecanism that adjusts mechanically to the curve

Yes, it's basically a parallelogram. One side traces the numbers/letters, and the other side engraves.

You trace the design with your right hand, and manually push down the engraver side with your left to apply enough pressure to write on the metal.
If you look at the sample I did, it doesn't take much pressure at all...this is softer metal (probably aluminum or similar...it's a cheap wrench that came with something I bought), and I was barely pressing down...about as much pressure as I'd use to hold a sandwich, lol.


Steel is much tougher than aluminum, but you're really not pressing hard to make it work...mostly just holding it against the object to be engraved to keep the pressure even.

 

[369mafia]

@dpd3672 " and I was barely pressing down...about as much pressure as I'd use to hold a sandwich, lol."

Interesting comparison. I am going to start using this as a unit of measure. lol

"The equivalent pressure to hold a sandwich. "

If your sandwich looks like this....dial it back a bit bud.

 

[369mafia]

assembled by @pompompurin and relumed by @manodeoro

That is a proper frog foot. the best I have seen yet!!

I thought that lume was factory!! Dang he is getting good.

 

[dpd3672]

@dpd3672 " and I was barely pressing down...about as much pressure as I'd use to hold a sandwich, lol."

Interesting comparison. I am going to start using this as a unit of measure. lol

"The equivalent pressure to hold a sandwich. "

If your sandwich looks like this....dial it back a bit bud.

Believe me, the first few practice runs went about like that. I was using an old Altoids tin (I couldn't find anything to practice on) and damn near scribed through it.