Something about custommade handmade straps

[thermalboyz]

[MENTION=98229]tysoosn[/MENTION] I did change the topic as I feel that your concern is quality and price hence I put up example of homage and Rep. As I quoted on your post above regarding paying logo for 10k. Either paying 10k or 100 is the same concept on your strap theory, both are watch with same design as with your strap theory all skin are same. I am trying to find out what's your purpose of posting this thread without any solid proof of it. Anyway, even the crocodile/ alligator is the same, farm is same, food is same, but the pattern and parts for skin is different. Croc belly is the most expensive part and depends on species, for example louisiana Croc have a unique pattern and can fetch higher price. There are no 100% same alligator / Croc skin pattern. Yes, labour cost can be different (i.e. China vk Europe) and I think to back up your point you need to have enough proof of different strap maker are using the same part, same material, same colouring / dyeing process, stitching, etc. Without that I cannot agree with you the quality is 100% same. I am sure strap / leather maker will have their opinion here as well. I hate overcharge strap too but I appreciate decent quality material and workmanship. By the way, do not confused the quality of Alligator, crocodile and caiman are the same. Google or wiki you will find out more.

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[tysoosn]

emdeevee Yes! Thats what Im thinking too. Hey Panerai can sell 1000$ strap. I will not have problem with that. Its "Panerai". Their watches cost more more than that... But this handmade straps we talk about are not brands. Lets be clear... I dont mind if these sellers sell to people who bought gen PAM. They payed 10k for watch why not for a strap they like it. They dont have time to search if they can find it cheaper. For the time they will lose it will not worth. But you bought replica 200$ and strap 200$. Its like buying citizen watch 200$ and buy some 200$ strap...

 

[tysoosn]

thermalboyz what's your purpose of posting this thread without any solid proof of it
Nothing! Rly nothing. I just think this is interesting topic. I dont want advertise someone. Or make someone buy something. Im just talking. I respect and appreciate everyone here. If i dont respect you i will not be here right? If I was on their place i would do the same. I would sell them for 1000$ if there are customers. Its custom handmade in Italy

Let me tell you something. I was few times in Paralia, Greece. I hope here are some guys from Greece they will tell you some details. Its a village. But it have lot of leather and fur factories. They produce jackets for very famous brand names. And you can find there leather jacket who cost 100$ and in the boutique find it for 1500$. Its engraved on them Made in Germany and Italy. The same!! It comes from same factory. They work with west countries. The difference with furs is lot bigger. You can find nice fur jacket for 100$-150$ the most expensive ones are 500-600 (tiger fur i think im not sure). The same ones when you buy from the boutiques in Germany are x20 and sometimes more. I guarantee you this!!!

 

[ShiroTenshi]

Interesting topic.
I myself am not keen on spending US$100+ on strap (especially calf strap), with some exceptions.
I'm sure some of the European/American maker uses croc strap from their local farm, which is much more expensive then one coming from Thailand/Vietnam. Add that to labour cost from developed country and it's definitely going to be more expensive then one coming from viet/Thai.

Why not let us know where we can buy the cheap and quality strap that you mentioned so that we can ourselves buy and compare?


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[thermalboyz]

Thats why I confused, first you said logo, strap, then fur, then Labour cost. I think should be more specific in terms of your questions. For example OEM calf leather strap cost 400 is the same quality that 50 from strap maker, then I can understand. But if Alligator / Croc, I will disagree with you because it is a different level and lot more complex to determine the "Value of money". For comparing Croc strap I always look at the pattern and colour, the compare it with other maker then make my judgment whether it's worth it or not. Yes, fur coat I agree with you if only they are from the same factory and using the same material. Otherwise the quality won't be the same as skilled workers , machinery and quality material always come in higher cost hence lower price does not guarantee it's 100% same. It's because the resources will cost more that effect the profit margin. So what exactly is your questions if you don't mind repeat and I am sure others (including myself) will be kindly to answer.

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[Fiddo]

thermalboyz what's your purpose of posting this thread without any solid proof of it

I ask you the same question.



I'd like to see this 10 minute strap. Can you post a video or pictures, please?

 

[trailboss99]

of course, produce a strap in Vietnam and one in Europe has a different cost
a Vietnamese wage is $ 30 a month, in Europe around € 2,000
when a person takes half a day to wrap a strap, you can claim $ 1 or 100 € for labor
perhaps now you need to be at the current price of hides in Europe
the crocodile is measured in centimeters wide, the cost varies from 10 € to 18 € per centimeter + taxes, depending on the color and finish
normally use a 24/26 cm skin that can cost from 300 to 400 €, a good cutter, gets 6/8 strap. materials, edge dyeing, dyes, threads, linings etc. are all tested and antiallergic, and very expensive. I do not know in China or other countries there are certain checks on the quality of materials
perhaps it is no art, but I think my work can be evaluated something, when I bring my car into the dealership for the checking, I pay € 110 per hour, even for the guy who washes the car. because I should ask for € 2 per hour
this is just my thoughts
regards
Mario

Sorry you had to see this and sorry for the insult the poster has thrown at you sir. Any time you wish to have a dealer spot here all you need do is ask.







My comments below in red.

. First of all I dont want provocate someone or something. Then why post such utter garbage claiming you can make a strap in 10 minutes and that artisans (and that is what top strap makers are) over charge.

I respect everyone here and that the reason why Im here. No you do not! You have insulted the many fine strap makers on this forum in the most base and ignorant manner possible.

I dont have any problem with Orloff and other strap makers. Well I'm sure the now have one with you, I certainly do and I was the wrong person to piss off.

Why we didnt bought swiss watch? I and many others here have lots of Swiss watches.
Why we bought chinese one? Because I can't afford 100 plus Swiss ones that's why, not because they are over priced but because I cant afford 'em.
Why we didnt pay 10x for swiss 7750? Cost not value, you are confusing the two.

Why we should pay italian straps? It is none of your concern what "we" do, mind your own bloody business.

Someone posted 35$ vietnam croco strap on his IWC. Whats the difference with the italian ones who cost lot more? Quality you numbskull, you ask Strap Viet if he thinks his straps are the equal of an Orloff or a Paci. He would be the first to say no.

Italian hand made? You say if you want premium quality you will pay for it. YES!!! But vietnam straps are not premium quality? No they are not. They are very good value for money but they are not the same as a top grade strap or they would cost a lot more.

It must be Italian, Swiss, German to be premium? Who the hell said that? One of the best PAM strap makers in the world is from Indonesia.

I know what is art. You don't have a clue what is art and at any rate you are confusing artists and artisans, art and an art. Two entirely different concepts.


I respect the strap makers especially on this forums. No you do not, you have deeply insulted them and that is not showing any respect at all.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDo-zzr9dY Now I'm not sure if trolling us or a very special kind of stupid. Ever heard of editing? Do you actually think it takes 10 minutes to make one of the highest quality English style dress watch straps you can buy? Good god man, that would have taken him a couple of hours at the very least. THAT is your basis for your claim that it takes 10 minutes to make a strap?

 

[thermalboyz]

Ok, boss come. Now I can go to sleep.

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[beau_bands]

I've been making straps for about 4 years. I can tell you that the big names like Orloff, Rob Montana etc charge $200 because people pay $200. It's economics. No one has mentioned that yet. If Orloff charges $5 for his strap. Shoot, I'll buy 20! Or if he starts charging $3000, I bet orders will dry up really quick.
$200 is their sweet spot to give them the number of orders they're able to take.
Wait til you see a sale, that's when you know things are slow.
And a strap with full stitching is 2-4 hours to make. I haven't made nearly as many as the strap makers who's names we all know, but I've made more than a few straps and that's how it works.

 

[trailboss99]

Yup, I don't get out of bed for less than $50 an hour (before tax) either.

 

[root]

Guys. Im happy you reply on this thread. First of all I dont want provocate someone or something. I respect everyone here and that the reason why Im here. I dont have too much post but I have read for days and days. I will give link of some work on youtube. 10 min work. I dont know what strap seller is that. I just found on internet. Im happy that someone think the same like me. I dont have any problem with Orloff and other strap makers. Guys dont get me wrong. I dont wanna argue with someone lets just talk. Why we didnt bought swiss watch? Why we bought chinese one? Why we didnt pay 10x for swiss 7750? Why we should pay italian straps? Someone posted 35$ vietnam croco strap on his IWC. Whats the difference with the italian ones who cost lot more? Italian hand made? You say if you want premium quality you will pay for it. YES!!! But vietnam straps are not premium quality? It must be Italian, Swiss, German to be premium? I know what is art. I respect the strap makers especially on this forums. They are great. I have 1000 photos saved from their work. But thats not art! Guys pay 10k$$$ for PAM and buy 200$ strap. But buying 200$ chinese watch and get 200$ strap? That will make your watch gen? If you need 4 hours to make 10cm leather piece - How much time you need to make a wallet for example? or bag? or Jacket? A year??? Enjoy in the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDo-zzr9dY

Since you asked for wallet it takes 4-6 hours, the same for stitched belt, bags from 10 and up depending on complexity. Of course, for 100% handmade, using machines (clickers, sewing) considerably shortens the time needed, but I don't consider it as a handmade. Jackets and leather garments in general are sewn by machines so it takes less than for bag So, just multiply this with hour price + material and you'll get production (not retail) price...


KAMILeather (Atelier Petrov)
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kami.leathercraft
Instagram: @kamileather

 

[root]

Please pay attention that original straps that comes together with many high priced gens are in general just a crap! I had many of them on repair just after couple of months in use, and there you pay brand on a cheep strap (+300€ for replacement). There are some exceptions of the rule (like some models of Glasshutte), but, good handmade straps like Toshi ones (had just one on repair) are worth money


KAMILeather (Atelier Petrov)
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kami.leathercraft
Instagram: @kamileather

 

[virtual_luke]

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[thermalboyz]

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

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[Knifemaker]

:junio:

Your Avatar fit this post perfectly Rob!

KnifeMaker, Central Tx.

 

[Knifemaker]

10 minutes to make a strap? 10 minutes to cut four pieces of leather, fold and glue them, punch the thread holes, sew, cut the tang notch, punch the tang holes, seal the edges make the keepers and finish the strap? You have no idea what you are talking about so kindly stop insulting artisan strap makers including those on his forum.

Your so right TB! My wife makes one hell of a nice Pam Strap in the Ammo Style. Absolutely first grade stuff. She doesn't make them for sell, as her authorities simply won't allow it.

The waterproofing alone takes a couple of hours to do it right. LOL!!!

Knife

 

[Knifemaker]

Guys. Im happy you reply on this thread. First of all I dont want provocate someone or something. I respect everyone here and that the reason why Im here. I dont have too much post but I have read for days and days. I will give link of some work on youtube. 10 min work. I dont know what strap seller is that. I just found on internet. Im happy that someone think the same like me. I dont have any problem with Orloff and other strap makers. Guys dont get me wrong. I dont wanna argue with someone lets just talk. Why we didnt bought swiss watch? Why we bought chinese one? Why we didnt pay 10x for swiss 7750? Why we should pay italian straps? Someone posted 35$ vietnam croco strap on his IWC. Whats the difference with the italian ones who cost lot more? Italian hand made? You say if you want premium quality you will pay for it. YES!!! But vietnam straps are not premium quality? It must be Italian, Swiss, German to be premium? I know what is art. I respect the strap makers especially on this forums. They are great. I have 1000 photos saved from their work. But thats not art! Guys pay 10k$$$ for PAM and buy 200$ strap. But buying 200$ chinese watch and get 200$ strap? That will make your watch gen? If you need 4 hours to make 10cm leather piece - How much time you need to make a wallet for example? or bag? or Jacket? A year??? Enjoy in the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDo-zzr9dY

Well, I just watched the vid. and had seen it before. The skiving alone took far more than 10 minutes, and the hand stitching, done on the stitching horse, takes around 20 minutes each. So we are already at 30-40 minutes. Add the edging, glue application, and set-up, not to mention the full layout and cutting, not to mention the careful edging.

We're talking some serious time here folks.

A good friend of mine makes vid's of KnifeMakers in their shops, making their wares. The vids last usually 1-2 hrs. The actual knives can take days of solid work.
An uninitiated observer of the vid would have no clue the time involved. No matter how many times the vid was viewed.

For instance, one of the videos show a 4" blade being fully polished. The segment is about 2 minutes long. The actual process takes closer to 4-6 hours, not counting all the prep work before the polishing, which takes hours as well.

A newby, fully ignorant of the process, could easily miss the point of the vid completely..

Knife

 

[tysoosn]

ShiroTenshi I cant tell you that because I respect TD here. You search them sorry. thermalboyz I want to us ti discuss on this Topic i dont have any special questions. beau_bands Knifemaker Thats what im saying too. Do this math ok? Same man in Italy and China. Italian takes 50$ per hour Chinese take 5$ per hour - The same strap will cost 45$ less right? I bought handmade knives in Istanbul. There are very professional guys who made. He make easily 3-4 per day big knives. 1 guy 3-4 knives. Relaxed. I have 20 years old ones my dad bought. They are like new. And you know the price? Cheap cause its not Made in Italy. And the steel believe me is great. For the 10 min thing video. I didnt said its 10 min. But its not more then 1 hour if he do it relaxed. If he push it he can do it faster. Im talking about experienced guy who know what he is doing. I GUARANTEE YOU. Experienced guy will saw that strap for 1 min!!! Its 10 cm leather. Have you seen experienced guys how sew? You cant see their fingers... Glueing use time? Even glueing car tyre dont use more then 1 minute. Common guys. Making holes? That cost time? Cutting the leather? Have you seen work of a experienced chinese in fabrics? Search on google or somewhere. Making knive for days? Seriously? For me it can never be art cause its 10 centimetars of leather. Nothing else. Even belt cant be art. I live in very small country 2 000 000 citizens and there are hundreds of sewing factories. Big ones. They make things for lets say most famous brands in the world. Lot of them. I go directly in factories and buy them for 10% of the price in the shop. I will not tell the names of the brands cause its not allowed to sell them in the factories. I saw how people work there. Im talking about handwork too not just machines. Guys you cant see their fingers!!! trailboss99 I will make new reply for you cause it will be long i think. First of all im happy to talk with 1 of the administrators of my favourite forum! Thank you for the reply first of all.

 

[thermalboyz]

Making watch strap is NOT an ART!!!!! Lets be clear. Its nothing more then 10min. work from experience leather tailor. I GUARANTEE YOU!!!

[MENTION=98229]tysoosn[/MENTION] , Yes you did said 10 mins. (Actually less than 10 mins you said). What are you trying to find out by insulting everyone here and straps maker. You didn't bing any proof and findings but claiming all this shit and saying "I appreciate everyone opinion, respect strap maker, not making controversy, etc".

Bring some proof of what you've said otherwise shut up making assumption on how much strap maker charged. They can charged whatever price they want but the buyer only buy at a sensible price. Simple math will work it out and it's your choice to buy it or not. If you can't afford it doesn't mean it is poor quality. As I said the final price charged are all factor in with time, materials and other resources in order to make the strap.

Stop talking about factory, fur, china, turkey, cheap vs expensive, and especially "10 Mins". Bring some proof to back you up and do your research before making any statement.

 

[tysoosn]

trailboss99 No you do not! You have insulted the many fine strap makers on this forum in the most base and ignorant manner possible.
Its part of their job. I have small business. Im having problems like this too some times. I dont think they will get hurted if I just tell my opinion. I respect them because they respect their work. If you dont respect yourself then noone will!!

Well I'm sure the now have one with you, I certainly do and I was the wrong person to piss off
I dont know why is that? Men you cant say there are professionals only in Italy! Every big Italian or German brand have factories all over the world. You think BMW is maded 100% in Germany with 100% german materials? no! why no? Because the workers in China dont get 3000$ per month. Right? If Im saying this i dont mean i dont respect Germans. In fact Germany and Italy are my favourite for the Euro 2016. France not!

Why we didnt pay 10x for swiss 7750? Cost not value, you are confusing the two.
No! Thats not true. Cause you bought your watch rep 300$ for example. Swiss eta is 1000$. You have 1000$ im sure but you dont wanna buy it because the watch rep dont worth that much itself! But if you had genuine watch with 7750. If it get broke im sure you will buy new swiss 7750 because you payed the watch 3000$ already. Numbers are just examples here!!


Why we should pay italian straps? It is none of your concern what "we" do, mind your own bloody business.
You are right for this. Its your money. But what you want. You can buy 1000$ strap on your 200$ pam too. Wait let me buy 10 000$ tyres for my 20 years old car. Its none my business really!!!

Quality you numbskull, you ask Strap Viet if he thinks his straps are the equal of an Orloff or a Paci. He would be the first to say no.
Im sure Orloff is more professional then him. But strap viet are young men who start do straps with his friends. How about 50 years old professionals in Vietnam who works 30 years with leather? My friend. If you give piece of leather on 30 years experienced leather sawer he can do anything you want. Just show him what you want. There are leather factories in Greece. You give them photo or something of leather jacket, belt or anything you want. And you come tomorrow and get it. 30 years old professional can do anything you want And he is not an Artist. Its just professional sawer who work for salary or for his own factory.

Italian hand made? You say if you want premium quality you will pay for it. YES!!! But vietnam straps are not premium quality? No they are not. They are very good value for money but they are not the same as a top grade strap or they would cost a lot more.
Really? You saw and touch all the straps custom handmaded in Vietnam? All of them? Why they would cost more?

It must be Italian, Swiss, German to be premium? Who the hell said that? One of the best PAM strap makers in the world is from Indonesia.
I will say chinese are best! You just need to find the real deal. They can do anything you want. Not just for 10cm leather. But everything!

I know what is art. You don't have a clue what is art and at any rate you are confusing artists and artisans, art and an art. Two entirely different concepts.
If making 10cm leather is art. Then tell me my friend. What is Leonardo da Vinci. Who is Mozzart? Have you seen some episodes on How its Made on Discovery? They make rockets who go out of space. Even that is not art. Its just technology. 10cm can never be art. Fact!

I respect the strap makers especially on this forums. No you do not, you have deeply insulted them and that is not showing any respect at all.
Again. Its part of their job. I didnt insult them. If i didnt respect them i would give you some guys from some countries who do the type "art" you want for funny prices. But i dont do that! I respect them! With some of them im friend of FB and we chat sometimes. I dont know if they are on this forum but they are expensive! I respect them!

Now I'm not sure if trolling us or a very special kind of stupid. Ever heard of editing? Do you actually think it takes 10 minutes to make one of the highest quality English style dress watch straps you can buy? Good god man, that would have taken him a couple of hours at the very least. THAT is your basis for your claim that it takes 10 minutes to make a strap?
The video is 4 min first! Second the guy there is slow. IDK who is he. Have you seen how 30 years experienced proffesional works? Ok. Let me say 1 hour. But slow relaxed working. Like the guy on the video. 1 hour maximum.