Regulate Rolex Clone Movement?

[pilworx]

how is the timing adjusted on the Rolex clone movement?
there doesn't appear to be a fine regulation screw or a regulator arm.

 

[katt]

If you post a pic of it I might be able to help . Last I heard though was that this is an ETA 2836-2 dressed up to look like a 3135 . If so there is a regulator .

 

[GC]

Pilworx, I had a look at some pics of the clone 3135 movt and strangely can not find a regulator anywhere on the movt... I'm thinking it might (and I stress might) have an adjustable ring around/below the shock system but without (as per usual) a handle or +/- engraving. The pics I saw were not that great and had the shock system half covered so I'm sorry for the halfazz answer. If you could take a macro pic of the shock system we might have better luck.

 

[pilworx]

okay i searched the interweb on how to regulate a real Rolex 3186 movement and found this page:
http://www.minus4plus6.com/regulation.htm
the real 3186 has a free sprung balance wheel assembly and the regulation is done by manipulating these tiny screws on the balance wheel itself. you can see them here in this pic and it requires a special tool called a Microstella wrench.

this next pic shows my clone 3186 with one of the bridges removed so you can see the balance wheel area better. there are no tiny screws on the balance wheel itself and i still can see nothing that i want to touch that looks like it will regulate the watch.

i started to remove the other decorative bridge but when i got the screw out it was obvious that the entire balance wheel assembly is attached to this bridge and would come out hairspring and all if i tried to remove the bridge, so i stopped and replaced that screw.
the top ring near the jewel there is what usually the regulation arm is attached to but it's not there.

any ideas?

 

[GC]

Pilworx, like I guessed... the ring around the shock system (the one that has the little notch opening) looks/seems to be the regulator but like I assumed it does not have an arm or any symbols showing +/-. Have a look and see it it rotates clock wise/counter clock wise as I belive it will.

 

[katt]

Remember this is an ETA 2836-2 and has nothing to do with a Rolex 3135 or its balance . So , to regulate , you need to remove the automatic wind mechanism , then the regulator will become accessible .

 

[pilworx]

Remember this is an ETA 2836-2 and has nothing to do with a Rolex 3135 or its balance . So , to regulate , you need to remove the automatic wind mechanism , then the regulator will become accessible .

do you mean the rotor?
what will that reveal?
all the other 2836's i have have the regulator arm right there next to the stud coming off the jewel on the balance wheel assembly. the rotor in the pic above is not covering anything near the balance wheel. unless you are speaking of something else entirely please elaborate.

i think G. could be right but the question is, how to move that ring without something come off of it to turn it with.

 

[katt]

This is a modded ETA disguised to look like a 3135. The regulator is accessible just underneath the auto wind mechanism , not the rotor. Good luck mate .

 

[GC]

This is a modded ETA disguised to look like a 3135. The regulator is accessible just underneath the auto wind mechanism , not the rotor. Good luck mate .

Katt...pics plz, so we who are not movt specialists can learn something new.

"automatic wind mechanism"...is that not the rotor?

Is it possible that Katt is taking about adjusting the movt ( there are several places that a movt can be adjusted 3 & 5 & 7... places if i'm not wrong). But if I'm not wrong all that pilworks is trying to do is adjust the accuracy of the balance wheel beat not adjust (fine tune) the whole movt.

 

[katt]

Regulating rate and adjusting for beat error are distinctly different procedures .

 

[GC]

Regulating rate and adjusting for beat error are distinctly different procedures .

Katt, great info my brother... but plz explain the differences so we (non-watch repai/movt experts can follow and learn what exactly you are referring to.

Pilworx wants to adjust the regulator that is normaly found on the balance wheel...so what exactly does that regulate( rate or beat?)

Again, I am not a movt expert but am ever willing to learn along with you if you could share some knowledge with us.

 

[katt]

I would caution against doing anything more to this watch , unless you're pretty sure you know what you're doing . Take care mate .

 

[GC]

OK...that was not the answer we/pilworx were/was looking for but I totaly understand, since your business is in repair/regulating, that you would prefer he send it in to be regulated. Fair play on your part.

Out of curiosity, have you worked on this particular movt before, only reason I ask is in Oct of last year you yourself posted a thread asking the community about this very same movt. Kindly LegendsOfSpeed answered your question about it not being a clone ETA but instead a decorated Asian movt. Based on your first response to pilwoxs you referred to it as a clone ETA, so I'm guessing you have established that it is truly a Clone ETA or is it in fact a Seagull ST-2530...hmmmm

@ pilworx,

here ya go, some info on what exactly i was referring to in regards to "the more positions regulating", compliments of TimeZone.com

3.2.1 What does "adjusted" vs. "unadjusted" vs. "regulated" mean?

These are terms to be used in conjunction with the discussion in section 3.2. An "unadjusted" movement is a movement where no attempt has been made to ensure that the daily error rate in several orientations (positions) have been minimized across the positions. An "adjusted" movement, therefore, has had some extra care in ensuring that the variance in accuracy between several orientations is minimized.
Watches are typically adjusted to 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 positions. Traditionally, they are ordered as follows:

1. Dial Up
2. Crown Down
3. Dial Down
4. Crown Left
5. Crown Up
6. Crown Right

For example, a watch adjusted to two positions include positions 1 & 2 from the above list (i.e. face up and crown down). Similarly, a watch adjusted for 4 positions has been adjusted in positions 1-4, and so on. Watches can also be adjusted for isochronism (i.e. constant time across varying states of wind) and temperature. Some manufacturers (Franck Muller, some Patek Phillipe) adjusts to 8 positions (the above six plus two half-way orientations); some on the forum would say that this is a bit over-the-top. There is a 3 part, in-depth technical article on adjusting, including photos and commentary on the actual adjusting of a watch, in The Horologium series on "Tweaking the Mark XII".
A "regulated" movement is a when the overall rate of the entire movement (either adjusted or not) is brought into correct absolute timing. Unlike adjustment, this is a simple tweak, which moves the daily rates of all of the positions up or down without intentionally changing the relative rates in positions.

Also read "Tweaking The Mark part2" (i think it has some valuable info) http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium0037

 

[GC]

btw: here is what katt was referring to as "the automatic winding mechanism" i.e. not the rotor...

THE AUTOMATIC WINDING

Because the automatic winding system of the Swatch automatic is characteristic of all ETA automatics, and because it has been widely imitated (with slight variations to circumvent patent rights), it is worth describing in more detail. The winding rotor, in this case a base metal piece, carries a drive gear that directly engages the two click wheels. As illustrated at right, the rotor mount uses ball bearings, a now common practice, but a design first developed by Eterna and adopted by ETA. The two click wheels (illustrated left) are responsible for the bidirectional winding,

transforming either direction of rotor movement into counter-clockwise winding of the mainspring. Each click wheel is comprised of a pair of wheels, one on top of the other. Each pair is connected by a unidirectional click that lies between the two wheels. These directional clicks are the heart of the bidirectional winding. Both top wheels rotate continuously with the rotor drive. Because of the unidirectional click between each pair of stacked wheels, the lower wheel will rotate only if the upper wheel is moving counterclockwise (for the right click as illustrated left) or clockwise (for the left click). The two lower wheels are always engaged with each other and it is the lower wheel of the left hand click wheel (as illustrated above left) that engages the first of the two reduction wheels that eventually leads to the mainspring barrel.

With reference to the illustration of the top plate at right, (5) indicates the click wheels; (7) the first reduction wheel; (6) the second reduction wheel; (3) the mainspring barrel ratchet wheel; (4) the mainspring barrel; (2) the transmission wheel that transfers power to the barrel during hand winding (from the crown gear on the winding stem); (1) the stem; and (8) the sprung button that releases the winding stem push piece to remove the stem from the movement. With corresponding numbers, the parts still attached to the automatic winding bridge (inverted) may be seen in the illustration at left. The three lower jeweled pivots on the click wheels and first reduction wheel are visible here.

Note that there is no disengagement of the automatic winding during hand winding in this movement and that all automatic parts rotate during rotation of the crown, all the way back to the two click wheels. Additionally, on this movement the ratchet (to prevent unwinding of the mainspring) is actually provided on the transmission wheel rather than on the "ratchet" wheel of the barrel (visible to the left of the transmission wheel {2} in the illustration above right).
I have prepared a pair of schematic drawings that clearly illustrate the two paths that automatic winding takes with clockwise and counter-clockwise rotation of the rotor. Please click here to view these schematics and an explanation of the operation.

 

[katt]

Looks like an ETA to me . I've dealt with a similar version .

Now, take out the two usually black screws that hold the auto wind mechanism in place, then remove the mechanism itself, and the regulator should become accessible . Good luck mate .

See the two black screws on the movement on the left ?
Now see the movement on the right, look at all the room and see the regulator and stud bridge .

 

[pilworx]

super kudos to katt!!
i can indeed see the regulator arm hidden deep underneath the auto winding mechanism. the next question is, do i have the cajones to remove all that to try to regulate the watch? first impression is no, but as i have all my other reps running to within a couple seconds a day i know i will not be able to live with this watch running at the +15 seconds per day that it is.
hmmm, some thought is required here.

thanks guys for all your help.
i love this place.

 

[katt]

Glad this has been elucidating for you. But , if you decide to err on the side of caution , I have a watch timing machine and years experience in these matters . Thanks , good luck .

 

[coop]

Just wondering, it was my understanding that these movements are eta CLONES, not gen etas. Is this the case?

 

[pilworx]

yeah, i do not see any "eta" logo engraving anywhere, just ROLEX branded engraving.

 

[GC]

super kudos to katt!!
i can indeed see the regulator arm hidden deep underneath the auto winding mechanism. the next question is, do i have the cajones to remove all that to try to regulate the watch? .

I personally would send it off to a pro for a real regulation.