RAF 16610, New 5 Digit Factory

[Saggiolus]

it's still the stock but my watchmaker made a change that I can't tell you maybe on the click spring or elsewhere but now it rotates much better and it no longer looks like a cheap component like before

Probably the click spring! Thank you

 

[Leescott100]

It looks so much like ARF that it should be as good a base bro.

It has the same (slightly) stubby CGs as ARF and other than a different shade of LV insert and an improved numeral 3 on the dial it's pretty much the same.

The LN has an LV maxi dial and hands. The LN has poor rehaut engraving and a rough rehaut ledge. The LV has no rehaut engraving and a smoother ledge.

The movement is not an SA but SH and since ARF is the only factory using these it's a pretty clear fingerprint. Plus the clasp coronet is off center right, a known ARF issue.

SA3135 has the regulator arms reversed.

You're comparing I sent colours but there are actually 5 different gen insert colours of the Kermit

 

[mmax]

Wondering if the click spring is the problem I did interchange the springs of the RAF and a gen 16610LN from 2010. It had no effect at all. The gen bezel did still clicking nicely with the rep spring and the RAF continued to rattle with the gen piece as before. Honestly, that was not surprising. A tiny little click spring alone cannot fix a wobbly bezel assembly.

In the next step I interchanged also the bezel rings. It took quite a bit of force to press the gen bezel onto the rep, and as a result, it was so tight that it couldn't be turned. I tried multiple times with no better results. At least the wobblyness and rattling sound was gone.

Interesting was the effect on the other side. The rep bezel ring could be easily pressed on the gen retaining ring as expected. But to my surprise there was only little wobble and also the clicking sound was significantly better, although not gen like.

In summary, a gen click spring or gen bezel did not solve the problem. A gen retaining ring would make an improvement but is only the half way if you want to go gen. For me the question is open, if the RAF bezel can be modified somehow to fit more tight e.g., by putting something between the retaining ring. A better option may be to look for other aftermarket bezel rings that either fit directly or can be easily modded to do so. If anyone has any experience with this, I would be very interested to know.

 

[mmax]

This does the trick: Remove the bezel ring. Cut a piece of nylon thread for the inner side of the bezel ring. Place it in the groove between the teeth and the outer edge. Adjust the length so the thread has some tension and sits tightly like a gasket. Finally, put a little silicon grease on it. Check that the click spring and the washer still sit correctly on the retaining ring and press the modded ring back on the case.
The wobble will be gone and leaves back a very nice gen like clicking. Very simple and effective.

 

[Saggiolus]

This does the trick. Remove the bezel ring. Cut a piece of nylon thread and put it inside the bezel. Adjust the length until it tightly fits like a gasket (similar as used in ceramic bezels). Add a little silicon grease and press the ring back on the case. The wobble will be gone and leaves back a very nice gen like clicking. Very simple and effective.

Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure how it works tho. On the gmt bezel there is a specific place where the hytrel ring sit, on the 5 digit sub bezel I'm not sure where this thread should sit. Can you by any chance share some photos?

 

[mmax]

There is a small but a bit too wide groove under the bezel between the teeth and the edge. This causes the wobble and the ugly click resonance. Insert the nylon thread there.

 

[mmax]

I will try to take photos later

 

[Saggiolus]

I will try to take photos later

That would be AMAZING.

 

[KJ2020]

I'm putting a 5 digit GMT Franken together with bezel parts from different vendors and ran into similar issues with poor movement and click sounds. The gen 16610 and 16710 bezel assemblies are identical except for the tip of the click, which has a 90° angle bend on the GMT to allow two way rotation.

No one has mentioned if the RAF assembly includes the bezel tension ring, the large thin washer that sits on top of the retaining ring. I tried some different things to improve my bezel firmness - using a thicker tension ring, bending the click to put more resistance on the bezel inside teeth, etc.

On a whim I tried using a second bezel tension ring. It did the trick and the bezel firmness and sound are much improved. Note that doing this can make snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring additionally challenging. In my case the insert was out of the bezel so I could easily situate the two washers and reposition the click perfectly. After everything was in place and working well I snapped the insert home.

I've put a lot of these together, first time I ever used two washers. If the RAF doesn't come with even one, or even if it does, adding one could be attempted as a solution.

 

[GrandmasterChime]

I'm putting a 5 digit GMT Franken together with bezel parts from different vendors and ran into similar issues with poor movement and click sounds. The gen 16610 and 16710 bezel assemblies are identical except for the tip of the click, which has a 90° angle bend on the GMT to allow two way rotation.

No one has mentioned if the RAF assembly includes the bezel tension ring, the large thin washer that sits on top of the retaining ring. I tried some different things to improve my bezel firmness - using a thicker tension ring, bending the click to put more resistance on the bezel inside teeth, etc.

On a whim I tried using a second bezel tension ring. It did the trick and the bezel firmness and sound are much improved. Note that doing this can make snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring additionally challenging. In my case the insert was out of the bezel so I could easily situate the two washers and reposition the click perfectly. After everything was in place and working well I snapped the insert home.

I've put a lot of these together, first time I ever used two washers. If the RAF doesn't come with even one, or even if it does, adding one could be attempted as a solution.

Brilliant work as usual kj

 

[Saggiolus]

I'm putting a 5 digit GMT Franken together with bezel parts from different vendors and ran into similar issues with poor movement and click sounds. The gen 16610 and 16710 bezel assemblies are identical except for the tip of the click, which has a 90° angle bend on the GMT to allow two way rotation.

No one has mentioned if the RAF assembly includes the bezel tension ring, the large thin washer that sits on top of the retaining ring. I tried some different things to improve my bezel firmness - using a thicker tension ring, bending the click to put more resistance on the bezel inside teeth, etc.

On a whim I tried using a second bezel tension ring. It did the trick and the bezel firmness and sound are much improved. Note that doing this can make snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring additionally challenging. In my case the insert was out of the bezel so I could easily situate the two washers and reposition the click perfectly. After everything was in place and working well I snapped the insert home.

I've put a lot of these together, first time I ever used two washers. If the RAF doesn't come with even one, or even if it does, adding one could be attempted as a solution.

I'll definitely try this tomorrow.

 

[Fin]

I went ahead and cancelled my order for this piece. It seems all of them have this gap between crown and case. A pretty major problem IMO.

 

[heska]

I went ahead and cancelled my order for this piece. It seems all of them have this gap between crown and case. A pretty major problem IMO.

Gens have gaps too.

just a few random example found quickly on google image:

 

[heska]

I'm putting a 5 digit GMT Franken together with bezel parts from different vendors and ran into similar issues with poor movement and click sounds. The gen 16610 and 16710 bezel assemblies are identical except for the tip of the click, which has a 90° angle bend on the GMT to allow two way rotation.

No one has mentioned if the RAF assembly includes the bezel tension ring, the large thin washer that sits on top of the retaining ring. I tried some different things to improve my bezel firmness - using a thicker tension ring, bending the click to put more resistance on the bezel inside teeth, etc.

On a whim I tried using a second bezel tension ring. It did the trick and the bezel firmness and sound are much improved. Note that doing this can make snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring additionally challenging. In my case the insert was out of the bezel so I could easily situate the two washers and reposition the click perfectly. After everything was in place and working well I snapped the insert home.

I've put a lot of these together, first time I ever used two washers. If the RAF doesn't come with even one, or even if it does, adding one could be attempted as a solution.

I remember that on my JF bezel action was terrible (so flimsy that it was turning it self by just some contact with my shirt/jacket/etc...). After a lot of tinkering with the tension ring and the clickspring i finally got something somehow correct. I eventually got the opportunity to buy a TC bezel assembly and it was night and day.

 

[Saggiolus]

I went ahead and cancelled my order for this piece. It seems all of them have this gap between crown and case. A pretty major problem IMO.

I went ahead and cancelled my order for this piece. It seems all of them have this gap between crown and case. A pretty major problem IMO.

The gap is due to the shape and design of the rep crown. I replaced the crown with gen. The distance between case and crown is identical now to my gen.

 

[Saggiolus]

I went ahead and cancelled my order for this piece. It seems all of them have this gap between crown and case. A pretty major problem IMO.

I'm putting a 5 digit GMT Franken together with bezel parts from different vendors and ran into similar issues with poor movement and click sounds. The gen 16610 and 16710 bezel assemblies are identical except for the tip of the click, which has a 90° angle bend on the GMT to allow two way rotation.

No one has mentioned if the RAF assembly includes the bezel tension ring, the large thin washer that sits on top of the retaining ring. I tried some different things to improve my bezel firmness - using a thicker tension ring, bending the click to put more resistance on the bezel inside teeth, etc.

On a whim I tried using a second bezel tension ring. It did the trick and the bezel firmness and sound are much improved. Note that doing this can make snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring additionally challenging. In my case the insert was out of the bezel so I could easily situate the two washers and reposition the click perfectly. After everything was in place and working well I snapped the insert home.

I've put a lot of these together, first time I ever used two washers. If the RAF doesn't come with even one, or even if it does, adding one could be attempted as a solution.

Just a note. RAF comes with a washer that is thicker than the WSO washer. I am using WSO Bezel with RAF washer now. Today I will try and add the second washer and see how it goes

 

[Saggiolus]

I went ahead and cancelled my order for this piece. It seems all of them have this gap between crown and case. A pretty major problem IMO.

I'm putting a 5 digit GMT Franken together with bezel parts from different vendors and ran into similar issues with poor movement and click sounds. The gen 16610 and 16710 bezel assemblies are identical except for the tip of the click, which has a 90° angle bend on the GMT to allow two way rotation.

No one has mentioned if the RAF assembly includes the bezel tension ring, the large thin washer that sits on top of the retaining ring. I tried some different things to improve my bezel firmness - using a thicker tension ring, bending the click to put more resistance on the bezel inside teeth, etc.

On a whim I tried using a second bezel tension ring. It did the trick and the bezel firmness and sound are much improved. Note that doing this can make snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring additionally challenging. In my case the insert was out of the bezel so I could easily situate the two washers and reposition the click perfectly. After everything was in place and working well I snapped the insert home.

I've put a lot of these together, first time I ever used two washers. If the RAF doesn't come with even one, or even if it does, adding one could be attempted as a solution.

Just a note. RAF comes with a washer that is thicker than the WSO washer. I am using WSO Bezel with RAF washer now. Today I will try and add the second washer and see how it goes

 

[KJ2020]

Just a note. RAF comes with a washer that is thicker than the WSO washer. I am using WSO Bezel with RAF washer now. Today I will try and add the second washer and see how it goes

Keep in mind what I noted about snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring. It can be annoying enough to try to get all the pieces aligned with just one washer, let alone two. This process is mega easy with the insert removed. So if the insert is relatively easy to pop on, that would be the way to go.

Otherwise putting the two washers inside the bezel bottom and threading the click into place while pulling the bezel toward center is the technique I've always used. If one of these bezels won't rotate it's often due to misalignment of the washer or the click stuck under it or over the teeth.

 

[Saggiolus]

Keep in mind what I noted about snapping the bezel onto the retaining ring. It can be annoying enough to try to get all the pieces aligned with just one washer, let alone two. This process is mega easy with the insert removed. So if the insert is relatively easy to pop on, that would be the way to go.

Otherwise putting the two washers inside the bezel bottom and threading the click into place while pulling the bezel toward center is the technique I've always used. If one of these bezels won't rotate it's often due to misalignment of the washer or the click stuck under it or over the teeth.

The insert is a pain it a** to snap back in. I'll try.
Usually with one washer I put the washer and the click spring and than push the bezel down with a press. I've never had issues.

I was thinking to add the se on washer after the click is already in in place and try to fit it underneath, than press the bezel back with the press

 

[KJ2020]

The insert is a pain it a** to snap back in. I'll try.
Usually with one washer I put the washer and the click spring and than push the bezel down with a press. I've never had issues.

I was thinking to add the second washer after the click is already in in place and try to fit it underneath, than press the bezel back with the press

That could trap the click under the bezel teeth. You might try a piece of waxed dental floss wrapped around the click and then both floss ends taped to the crystal, pulling the click back out of the way of the bezel teeth. After the bezel is in place pull the floss out. Cut one floss end really short before pulling on the long end to remove it.