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QC Pics need some better eyes than mine.

acesup11

Known Member
31/12/10
161
17
18
Oh, stop rep-whoring, would ya! :p

OK Tony was nice enough to send me more choice.

IMG_4092.jpg


IMG_4093.jpg


IMG_4094.jpg


I think this last one looks the best please chime in. Also yes I am going to buy a membership.
 

Time4Direct

Trusted Dealer (In Memoriam RIP)
Gold Patron
25/3/08
2,058
40
0
Oh God just read the post about I can afford a Gen.
Why is it that every person who can't find exactly what they want can always afford a gen?
Moreover they are usually price buyers rather than serious buyers who are prepared to pay for a modded item.
Maybe I am old fashioned but if I wanted a 100% perfect item and only that would do plus I had the means to buy a gen I wouldn't be messing about with a $200 rep and spending so much time trying to find the holy grail on a budget. I would buy the gen or make do with what is perfectly acceptable and available or have one modded if as it seems price is not the deciding factor
 

JC7

Respected Member
15/6/10
3,976
13
0
spacing looks the best in the last but the pin looks the worst.. the flannergan is also off and the blugeron3 looks like it belongs on a 112i. 2nd one is just as bad. :facepalm:

Oh God just read the post about I can afford a Gen.
Why is it that every person who can't find exactly what they want can always afford a gen?
Moreover they are usually price buyers rather than serious buyers who are prepared to pay for a modded item.
Maybe I am old fashioned but if I wanted a 100% perfect item and only that would do plus I had the means to buy a gen I wouldn't be messing about with a $200 rep and spending so much time trying to find the holy grail on a budget. I would buy the gen or make do with what is perfectly acceptable and available or have one modded if as it seems price is not the deciding factor

strange things are happening when i agree with t4d.. rep added
 

Time4Direct

Trusted Dealer (In Memoriam RIP)
Gold Patron
25/3/08
2,058
40
0
Winder crown is close but top part of CG is not a great fit to the case I would bet if you tightened that CG up to meet the case perfectly the lever would be too tight
 

shandroid

Respected Member
13/9/10
3,555
34
0
Oh God just read the post about I can afford a Gen.
Why is it that every person who can't find exactly what they want can always afford a gen?
Moreover they are usually price buyers rather than serious buyers who are prepared to pay for a modded item.
Maybe I am old fashioned but if I wanted a 100% perfect item and only that would do plus I had the means to buy a gen I wouldn't be messing about with a $200 rep and spending so much time trying to find the holy grail on a budget. I would buy the gen or make do with what is perfectly acceptable and available or have one modded if as it seems price is not the deciding factor

Because of this, methinks....

angrywife2-1.jpg


or this, lol

liar.jpg
 

ugoderosa

Renowned Member
12/9/10
541
4
0
aces: I would choose the 2nd one personally, as it seems to have the best combo of CG fitment to the case/crown spacing. Again, though, in real life, none of this stuff is really visible or noticeable. These macro shots exaggerate these issues.

Modding the crown spacing issue yourself would be very, very tricky and from what I have read, the fix is not nearly as simple as some have assumed.

As has been pointed out, there is a high degree of inconsistency in this business.... same factory, different days, different results.

This is a great watch. I love mine.

As a side note, the other option is to order one from Sead. He charges an additional $100, and for this, you get a corrected crown spacing (Sead mods it himself), and, more importantly, you get a different, more cosmetically accurate (corrected dagger shape, etc.), and somewhat better quality movement (Sead gets his watch from the same factory, but then swaps out the 6497 movement for a bit higher quality version).

I am happy with the stock version myself, as even Sead's version has "tells"- no AD or hardcore 'risti will be fooled by any rep movement. But to some, it is worth it. If this same watch was sold by Little Hero 6 months ago, the hard core 'risti would be happily shelling out $1K without a single complaint.
 

acesup11

Known Member
31/12/10
161
17
18
aces: I would choose the 2nd one personally, as it seems to have the best comobo of CG fitment to the case/crown spacing. Again, though, in real life, none of this stuff is really visible or noticeable. These macro shots exaggerate these issues.

As has been pointed out, there is a high degree of inconsistency in this business.... same factory, different days, different results.

This is a great watch. I love mine.

As a side note, the other option is to order one from Sead. He charges an additional $100, and for this, you get a corrected crown spacing (Sead mods it himself), and, more importantly, you get a different, more cosmetically accurate (corrected dagger shape, etc.), and somewhat better quality movement (Sead gets his watch from the same factory, but then swaps out the 6497 movement for a bit higher quality version).

I am happy with the stock version myself, as even Sead's version has "tells"- no AD or hardcore 'risti will be fooled by any rep movement. But to some, it is worth it. If this same watch was sold by Little Hero 6 months ago, the hard core 'risti would be happily shelling out $1K without a single complaint.

thanks I really appreciate the info.
 

MMs

I'm Pretty Popular
6/8/10
1,924
3
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I hate it when noobs do this.

time to put in my two cents, which has already been covered pretty much:

QC photos are NOT to be posted on forums for others to tell you what they think!

YOU need to put in the time and effort to find out if YOU like the watch pictured or
not, end of story. if you don't know what you're looking at, that's your problem.

there are reviews for pretty much every single popular rep, and reading them and
all the threads about that particular rep will give you the firm understanding you
need about it. you will there learn the flaws and shortcomings of that rep and so
on, and and you will there decide to order one or not.

then you order, you get your qc pics, if it looks good to YOU, you buy it. this is not
a place for us to pick apart watches for you. that happens in review threads. and
chances are no matter what the rep sent to you will have some issues.

what's going to happen here? are you going to reject the one that was picked for
you? because you think there's a problem with the crown (which there isn't)? and
then maybe you'll get a different one sent to you with no anglage on the bridges,
and maybe that'll bother the shit out of you. then what?

do your research, stop asking everyone to do it for you. trust me, if you keep up
your current pattern, dealers are going to blacklist you. nobody wants to deal with
an uneducated noob the nit picks on stuff they know nothing about and bugs dealers
over what was said on a forum over their qc pics. no offense, but most the people
you'll find commenting on this thread are not pam experts and you can't trust what
people here have to say about the watch. trust only yourself and your own gained
knowledge. and put in the time to acquire it.
 

acesup11

Known Member
31/12/10
161
17
18
I hate it when noobs do this.

time to put in my two cents, which has already been covered pretty much:

QC photos are NOT to be posted on forums for others to tell you what they think!

YOU need to put in the time and effort to find out if YOU like the watch pictured or
not, end of story. if you don't know what you're looking at, that's your problem.

there are reviews for pretty much every single popular rep, and reading them and
all the threads about that particular rep will give you the firm understanding you
need about it. you will there learn the flaws and shortcomings of that rep and so
on, and and you will there decide to order one or not.

then you order, you get your qc pics, if it looks good to YOU, you buy it. this is not
a place for us to pick apart watches for you. that happens in review threads. and
chances are no matter what the rep sent to you will have some issues.

what's going to happen here? are you going to reject the one that was picked for
you? because you think there's a problem with the crown (which there isn't)? and
then maybe you'll get a different one sent to you with no anglage on the bridges,
and maybe that'll bother the shit out of you. then what?

do your research, stop asking everyone to do it for you. trust me, if you keep up
your current pattern, dealers are going to blacklist you. nobody wants to deal with
an uneducated noob the nit picks on stuff they know nothing about and bugs dealers
over what was said on a forum over their qc pics. no offense, but most the people
you'll find commenting on this thread are not pam experts and you can't trust what
people here have to say about the watch. trust only yourself and your own gained
knowledge. and put in the time to acquire it.

I need to post pics because I am color blind and would not want to say OK to a watch and someone is like well you bought a watch with the wrong color dial how didn't you spot that. Or the wrong color txt etc.

I also would like other people to see what I am ordering because sometimes your too close to the problem and do not know it. So lets say I bought the first watch and posted pics and was like look at my new rep. Then every one is like great rep but .... and then point out whatever should have been caught pre shipment and is something wrong with it from the factory vs just a know flaw of that particular rep. As far as I know its not against the rules to post pics of reps once you have them in your possession is it? So if it is taken care of before it ships and goes through customs it will be a lot more fixable and cost less then getting the rep and posting the pics after and finding out..... or am I incorrect.
 

MMs

I'm Pretty Popular
6/8/10
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well I suppose it's a grey area.
several dealers will tell you to not post their qc pics on forums. like Josh for instance
that puts that statement in huge bold letters in the email he sends that contains the
pictures.

in this example, all of the 177l's will have the same color dial, the same color text
and all of that stuff. the point is that it is your responsibility to see a "defect from
the factory" on your own and raise an issue with it if there is one.

case in point is this thread. not one single watch pictured here has any problem
whatsoever with the crown. but you're probably going to reject your watch in favor
of another that seems as though the crown sits out an extra 1/4 of a mm.

and then you're going to have to ask the dealer for an entire new round of qc pics
for that said watch. because now that the non-existent crown issue is to the liking
of the forum per se, now you have to have the rest of the watch examined. and
what if that second watch has a beat error a bit out of the range of the comfort
zone of one of the people that posts here? what if 12 secs a day is unacceptable
to them? then you'd probably reject that watch, and so on.

and all the while, the first watch picked for you is as perfect as it will ever get. soon
the dealer will realize that you're more trouble than you are worth, and they'll get
sick of you posting the qc pics for people to make their own comments on. then
going back to them and rejecting perfectly fine watches.

and about the crown spacing, seeing how that's what's being nit-picked here... have
you even seen the gen watch to compare it? are you aware that many gen 177's have
the crown sitting pretty much perfectly flush with the case? on some there is a
fraction of a mm of spacing, but on some there is not. so what are you really trying
to accomplish here? do you know that moving the crown out can negatively impact
the ability of the watch to be water resistant?

moral of the story, educate yourself, make your own educated decisions and calls.
don't put the dealer at the mercy of a forum because you don't know what you're
buying. and chances are that most here aren't going to do anything but make your
ignorant position worse. that's what I'm trying to get at I suppose.
 

JC7

Respected Member
15/6/10
3,976
13
0
Damnit, MMs is ALWAYS thoughtful with his responses.. one of the best we have.
 

acesup11

Known Member
31/12/10
161
17
18
well I suppose it's a grey area.
several dealers will tell you to not post their qc pics on forums. like Josh for instance
that puts that statement in huge bold letters in the email he sends that contains the
pictures.

in this example, all of the 177l's will have the same color dial, the same color text
and all of that stuff. the point is that it is your responsibility to see a "defect from
the factory" on your own and raise an issue with it if there is one.

case in point is this thread. not one single watch pictured here has any problem
whatsoever with the crown. but you're probably going to reject your watch in favor
of another that seems as though the crown sits out an extra 1/4 of a mm.

and then you're going to have to ask the dealer for an entire new round of qc pics
for that said watch. because now that the non-existent crown issue is to the liking
of the forum per se, now you have to have the rest of the watch examined. and
what if that second watch has a beat error a bit out of the range of the comfort
zone of one of the people that posts here? what if 12 secs a day is unacceptable
to them? then you'd probably reject that watch, and so on.

and all the while, the first watch picked for you is as perfect as it will ever get. soon
the dealer will realize that you're more trouble than you are worth, and they'll get
sick of you posting the qc pics for people to make their own comments on. then
going back to them and rejecting perfectly fine watches.

and about the crown spacing, seeing how that's what's being nit-picked here... have
you even seen the gen watch to compare it? are you aware that many gen 177's have
the crown sitting pretty much perfectly flush with the case? on some there is a
fraction of a mm of spacing, but on some there is not. so what are you really trying
to accomplish here? do you know that moving the crown out can negatively impact
the ability of the watch to be water resistant?

moral of the story, educate yourself, make your own educated decisions and calls.
don't put the dealer at the mercy of a forum because you don't know what you're
buying. and chances are that most here aren't going to do anything but make your
ignorant position worse. that's what I'm trying to get at I suppose.

I already told him to ship me the first watch he send me QC pics of. Also yes I have seen the gen multiple times and thats why I want this one. I understand your points. I just think we got to where we are today with reps because we are very nit picky about how good the rep is. I have been a long time lurker and just signed up recently and I know that even 2 yrs ago this would have been considered a SUPER REP. So again if we hold the factories to this high standard (not including flaws because of available movment or whatever) we will continue to see these sub $400 reps thats are amazing out of the box.
 

MMs

I'm Pretty Popular
6/8/10
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oh I agree. and being picky is not a bad thing per se. it's just that this qc thing and
the ordering process in general should really be between the buyer and the dealer.
not between the dealer and the entire forum.

we're lucky to even have this new qc thing with pictures and videos and all of that
jazz, 2 years ago that was unheard of as well. if it becomes a common practice to
abuse this process, we may lose it. we can only expect the dealers to incur so much
frustration before they decide it's not worth their time.
 

ugoderosa

Renowned Member
12/9/10
541
4
0
we're lucky to even have this new qc thing with pictures and videos and all of that
jazz, 2 years ago that was unheard of as well. if it becomes a common practice to
abuse this process, we may lose it. we can only expect the dealers to incur so much
frustration before they decide it's not worth their time.


+1. This is my fear as well.

Similarly, I am concerned that when a factory puts out a great bang for the buck rep such as this, and all the feedback consists of 99% b*tching and moaning over relatively minor details (when compared to the low price- if paying $700+, then some of the more minor flaws become unacceptable), with no props for the good parts, the factories and dealers will say screw this. Nothing will ever satisfy these buyers, and the ones who are complaining don't buy anyway, so perhaps we shouldn't care about improving rep quality. I know this is the view of at least one of the major dealers.

In other words, put yourself in the factories/dealer's shoes. You make great effort to correct some flaws, and make a business decision to hit a certain price point. Hitting that certain price point necessitates compromises- in this case using a movement that is not particularly well done. Then you release it. However, your pride and joy is met with waves of gripes about dagger shape, crown position and beveling. I know I wouldn't like it. The problem is not with commenting on flaws, it is the lack of perspective and the lack of appreciation for the good aspects that is the issue.
 

sconehead

I'm Pretty Popular
3/12/07
1,748
3
0
oh I agree. and being picky is not a bad thing per se. it's just that this qc thing and
the ordering process in general should really be between the buyer and the dealer.
not between the dealer and the entire forum.

we're lucky to even have this new qc thing with pictures and videos and all of that
jazz, 2 years ago that was unheard of as well. if it becomes a common practice to
abuse this process, we may lose it. we can only expect the dealers to incur so much
frustration before they decide it's not worth their time.
Ruby was sending pics prior to shipping over 3 years ago...imo the OP was asking for advice in posting the pics, many have done this before...I don't see a problem...aces, don't let him wind you up mate...;)
 

trailboss99

Head Honcho - Cat Herder
Staff member
Administrator
Certified
30/3/08
43,374
16,468
113
I hate it when noobs do this.

time to put in my two cents, which has already been covered pretty much:

QC photos are NOT to be posted on forums for others to tell you what they think!

YOU need to put in the time and effort to find out if YOU like the watch pictured or
not, end of story. if you don't know what you're looking at, that's your problem.

there are reviews for pretty much every single popular rep, and reading them and
all the threads about that particular rep will give you the firm understanding you
need about it. you will there learn the flaws and shortcomings of that rep and so
on, and and you will there decide to order one or not.

then you order, you get your qc pics, if it looks good to YOU, you buy it. this is not
a place for us to pick apart watches for you. that happens in review threads. and
chances are no matter what the rep sent to you will have some issues.

what's going to happen here? are you going to reject the one that was picked for
you? because you think there's a problem with the crown (which there isn't)? and
then maybe you'll get a different one sent to you with no anglage on the bridges,
and maybe that'll bother the shit out of you. then what?

do your research, stop asking everyone to do it for you. trust me, if you keep up
your current pattern, dealers are going to blacklist you. nobody wants to deal with
an uneducated noob the nit picks on stuff they know nothing about and bugs dealers
over what was said on a forum over their qc pics. no offense, but most the people
you'll find commenting on this thread are not pam experts and you can't trust what
people here have to say about the watch. trust only yourself and your own gained
knowledge. and put in the time to acquire it.


FFS MMs, why are we here? It's to offer advice! Who says QC pics are not to be posted on the forums? If someone feels they are not sure about what they are buying why not? Josh doesn't allow it and that is yet another reason he's not here, he doesn't run this forum and neither do you my friend, please do not tell people what they may or not do here, that is not for you to decide.

Noob bashing is not a sport, at least not one permitted here. We are a friendly forum and some of you guys are in need of a dose of friendly pills.

If there is a problem here it began with some of the advice being offered without a qualification to say that any better was not going to happen, not the fact the pics were posted and advice sought.

Having said that, the OP needs to realise that you can not buy perfection for 200 bucks and that as stated above some of the comments here are down right uninformed. Listen to what T4D has told you, he speaks the truth.

if you don't know what you're looking at, that's your problem.
And how does he learn without asking?

You make some good points but jeeze mate, go easy on the guy!



Col.
 

MMs

I'm Pretty Popular
6/8/10
1,924
3
0
+1. This is my fear as well.

Similarly, I am concerned that when a factory puts out a great bang for the buck rep such as this, and all the feedback consists of 99% b*tching and moaning over relatively minor details (when compared to the low price- if paying $700+, then some of the more minor flaws become unacceptable), with no props for the good parts, the factories and dealers will say screw this. Nothing will ever satisfy these buyers, and the ones who are complaining don't buy anyway, so perhaps we shouldn't care about improving rep quality. I know this is the view of at least one of the major dealers.

In other words, put yourself in the factories/dealer's shoes. You make great effort to correct some flaws, and make a business decision to hit a certain price point. Hitting that certain price point necessitates compromises- in this case using a movement that is not particularly well done. Then you release it. However, your pride and joy is met with waves of gripes about dagger shape, crown position and beveling. I know I wouldn't like it. The problem is not with commenting on flaws, it is the lack of perspective and the lack of appreciation for the good aspects that is the issue.

well I'm not so worried about the second part.

we've picked the 177l to death, as we do with all reps really, and determined that the
movement is aesthetically junk. we've even labeled that factory the "old movement
factory." however, most all of us have bought that watch. and pretty much all of us
that are the major critics have bought it. we know that swapping a movement is a
pretty easy thing actually, and the rest of the watch is amazing. when it first came
out, there were cheers and applause and all of that. amazing crown guard, crown,
case, lever, dial, lume, caseback, lugs, etc. we were overjoyed. then came the tear
down. poor movement, is that crown sitting a touch close? but really that's the only
issues we can see.

in the end we speak with our wallets. and judging by the sales of the 177l, especially
judging on how many more 177's are selling than the new 111's, I think we're
speaking loud and clear that they're on the exact right path here. and in the end
it's all about the money that comes in, that's what the factories are after. they're
making better reps because they want to sell more. there's a huge market out
there that doesn't want to buy new crowns, crown guards, cannon pins, have their
watches sent for expensive lume jobs, etc. so now they don't have to, and the
factories are raking it in.

if the 111j was superlumed, it would be outselling this 177l I bet, no question. but
they cut that corner, and they're paying for it. I think the nit picking is okay, and it's
not going to hurt the effort as long as the factories are keeping with the pace they
are now. if they start going backwards... then it might get ugly.

and if they release the p.9000 models as 1:1 and they have some crap a7750 in
them (like the ones on the market now) things are going to go downhill I think.

FFS MMs, why are we here? It's to offer advice! Who says QC pics are not to be posted on the forums? If someone feels they are not sure about what they are buying why not? Josh doesn't allow it and that is yet another reason he's not here, he doesn't run this forum and neither do you my friend, please do not tell people what they may or not do here, that is not for you to decide.

Noob bashing is not a sport, at least not one permitted here. We are a friendly forum and some of you guys are in need of a dose of friendly pills.

If there is a problem here it began with some of the advice being offered without a qualification to say that any better was not going to happen, not the fact the pics were posted and advice sought.

Having said that, the OP needs to realise that you can not buy perfection for 200 bucks and that as stated above some of the comments here are down right uninformed. Listen to what T4D has told you, he speaks the truth.

And how does he learn without asking?

You make some good points but jeeze mate, go easy on the guy!



Col.


alright buddy, I'll refrain from now on.
 

Member X

I'm Pretty Popular
21/4/09
1,289
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not one single watch pictured here has any problem
whatsoever with the crown. but you're probably going to reject your watch in favor
of another that seems as though the crown sits out an extra 1/4 of a mm.
...
the non-existent crown issue is to the liking of the forum per se
...
the first watch picked for you is as perfect as it will ever get.
...
and about the crown spacing, seeing how that's what's being nit-picked here... have
you even seen the gen watch to compare it? are you aware that many gen 177's have the crown sitting pretty much perfectly flush with the case? on some there is a
fraction of a mm of spacing, but on some there is not.
So it's not an issue?

... poor movement, is that crown sitting a touch close? but really that's the only
issues we can see.
So it is an issue?

:unsure2:
 

JC7

Respected Member
15/6/10
3,976
13
0
MM's is not touchy feely Mr. Nice guy but offered fantastic advice not only on this watch but on collecting reps as a whole.. i like advice without all the "fluff".