- 18/1/11
- 19,845
- 419
- 83
Noob has flaws like all makers and some releases were not as good as others
But overall Noob is the leader in reps nowadays.
I'm talking in general not about a rep in concrete
ALE
-
Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!
NOOB PAM 372 Launched - [[ QC pics ALLOWED ]]
- Thread starter leandim
- Start date
Noob has flaws like all makers and some releases were not as good as others
But overall Noob is the leader in reps nowadays.
I'm talking in general not about a rep in concrete
ALE
- 18/1/11
- 19,845
- 419
- 83
Please elaborate
As far as I know some old PAMs had welded lugs, but I think that modern PAM 372 is made in one piece case
Already discussed in Reep Geek
ALE
...and here comes surprise!
I just got from my business trip hence so short reply yesterday…. I was not active on the forum for a week or so since I was leading a group of professionals for training in an abrasive manufacturer’s training facility in Switzerland, skipping the names. Day after day we had opportunity to see cutting edge industrial abrasive technology and to get some experience in using it. The abrasive manufacturer is delivering its tools and technology to IWC (which they can officially admit to and use as reference) and to other watch manufacturers they cannot confirm directly. On Friday we had a course of drum sanding tools with another technician with …a gen 372 in his wrist. I was cursing at myself for not taking my H-factory 372 to compare (but I will do that next time, in January 2014). Anyway, during the coffee break I jumped on the topic of how good is to be well paid technician in Switzerland pointing at his nice watch. “I got huuuuge discount from our customer
†- he replied smiling.Then I asked him how is Panerai able to achieve so perfect shape of a case with so nice lugs flat surfaces and so on.
“They shape and polish case and lugs separately and then they insert lugs, mill and polish the back side in assembled state.†- he explained.
“Ah… so they weld the lugs in?â€
“Not necessarily. If you do it right all you have to do is to freeze lugs in liquid nitrogen, insert them with some force and wait.â€.
“WOW!†I said, “… but can’t we achieve the same with just milling and sanding?â€.
“No, since the weak point will be sanding with belt sanders which will always lead to not flat, wavy surfaces, especially close to the case, where you need special care not to ruin the shape of main case. Of course, you can try to use drum sander after the belt sander to reverse unwanted shape change but it would be even more difficult to avoid damage to the main case. The welding / inserting is the cheapest way provided you can do lugs and mill square holes with high accuracy.â€
“OK, but the lugs dissection is of rectangular shape, not square one... Milling the square hole - I know how, but rectangular with high accuracy? Not easy…â€
“Look, lugs are rectangular in shape JUST before the insertion point.â€. And they were. I got home and gave a look at H rep, and lugs were widening themselves just before they enter the case…
So now I know, from probably almost the original source, that the lugs are inserts. Which is logical from production point of view. Panerai experimented with this technology in 1940's and 1950's. Hence it is reference to this historical fact in modern pam 1940 case-based watches.
Noob just got it wrong due to lack of technology/tools or just to trump “we have it done different wayâ€. On the other side, H-factory seemed to take right approach but failed on high accuracy and sometimes you can see hairline gaps between lugs and the rest of case…
Now to photos:
Interesting fact, there is similar photo on Puretime website, showing the quality of Noob's engravings but avoiding to show the quality of areas around lugs…?
Well done PolonusTM, this is very informative. Sadly, I doubt that any rep maker will be using the same process anytime soon, maybe never.
H-factory is using it, albeit with not so high accuracy (gaps left). They upgraded their equipment to deliver 372 and to be ready for next watches based on 1940 Radiomir case set. I got the knowledge from Joshua before H-factory 372 release. Now I can guess what their upgrade was about. This production method is cheaper than trying to carve the right shape of lugs while leaving pillow-like main case.
Sorry I missed that part...
Any idea when we can see a new version of the H factory 372? I really am curious to see if H factory can come out with a even better version than the current H Factory (which I can not find info on "Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" ), PT and Cartel
I wish they release better version, especially with better (more correct) and deeper engraving of "LUMINOR PANERAI". In such case I would buy it again. On the bright side - I would expect PAM 532 from them, since they already have right technology.
Interesting!!!!! Now we know allot more about the gen and how the two reps differ. With all this however time and time again the noob pams are still the better watch. All the h factory pams I have just don't have the same level of fit and finish...attention to detail.
In most cases Noob's products are indeed better. Never buy V1, if You can stand the fact there is new rep on the market
It's just such a great watch but I can't pull the trigger until someone get's the bridge right.
That's too much of a tell for me.
The second they fix that I will be all over it.
That's too much of a tell for me.
The second they fix that I will be all over it.
- 18/1/11
- 19,845
- 419
- 83
Thanks Polonus for the explanation and mainly for the investigation
This is really a surprise
Explained like that, this system of inserts is the "correct" way to get perfect lug contours and flat (non warped) surfaces
But I'm afraid that for a rep maker this system of production with perfect quality could be more difficult than current system, or maker should get different machines and tools.
Anyway very interesting discussion and we remain waiting for dealers and makers reactions and feedbacks
Thanks again and rep points added
CONGRATS !!
ALE
This is really a surprise
Explained like that, this system of inserts is the "correct" way to get perfect lug contours and flat (non warped) surfaces
But I'm afraid that for a rep maker this system of production with perfect quality could be more difficult than current system, or maker should get different machines and tools.
Anyway very interesting discussion and we remain waiting for dealers and makers reactions and feedbacks
Thanks again and rep points added
CONGRATS !!
ALE
ALE, can you clarify for me (and others) whether the 'FIRST CLASS REP of low level" applies to the NOOB factory 372 release expected in late October or whether that class designation will have to be re-evaluated once the NOOB release comes out?
Puretime website listing for the 372 release in late October states that this version will be a super-rep (http://www.pureti.me/product/pam372-p-11-noob-best-edition-on-thick-brown-leather-strap-p3000/).
Also, will the decorated plate be glued or screwed down? (my assumption is that it will be glued down).
Thanks for the clarification and answer. :thumbsup:
In the PureTime video of the noob 372, the plexiglass definitely has better shape than my H factory. It looks more like the gen 372 plexiglass I looked at yesterday at my local dealer.
- 18/1/11
- 19,845
- 419
- 83
As indicated in PAM GUIDE
Puretime and H maker versions are for me just Good replicas with some problems to get Frist Class status. Although the interesting investigation of Polonus, H maker has not the fitting and finish to get advance with the insert lugs system.
Noob is already a Frist Class bot at low level bordering lower status because the improvements are not so great (anyway the better LP engraving and colour, and the crystal shape are important).
This replica, following the current criteria, can be never a Super rep. since has display caseback and no true cloned Manifatture PAM movement P.3000. With this obvious flaw we are not considering Super any rep.
Anyway I think there are more flaws leaving aside movement. from inscriptions to hands ....etc
The plates seem glued and just with drilled holes to allow seeing the screws, but not fixed by them.
ALE