And my ZF 1359 also has the known problem of the CG lever not closing properly. It won't open by itself though. I think I can fix this myself. And while I'm at it I'm also going to shorten the CG lever pin so it won't stick out. It's a stunningly beautiful watch but I wouldn't buy it again at this point. These QC issues seem to be too common in the 13xx. ZF.
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New 1xxx series - ***`[ QC pics allowed ] ***
- Thread starter Maraach
- Start date
And my ZF 1359 also has the known problem of the CG lever not closing properly. It won't open by itself though. I think I can fix this myself. And while I'm at it I'm also going to shorten the CG lever pin so it won't stick out. It's a stunningly beautiful watch but I wouldn't buy it again at this point. These QC issues seem to be too common in the 13xx. ZF.
I need to add the PAM 1312 to my collection soon rather than later! 
I was planning to get the KW version, probably from TimeWillTell. Now I noticed a lot of you guys own the ZF version. Which version is the best to get at this point in time, and what are the main differences? They both have the thinner case, right?
My friend owns the PAM 312 , from KW I believe. It features the thick case, and I must say I like the heft of it a lot.. Am I crazy..
I was planning to get the KW version, probably from TimeWillTell. Now I noticed a lot of you guys own the ZF version. Which version is the best to get at this point in time, and what are the main differences? They both have the thinner case, right?My friend owns the PAM 312 , from KW I believe. It features the thick case, and I must say I like the heft of it a lot.. Am I crazy..
just for the record, i've had my zf 1312 for about a month now and so far no issues with the movement or cg/cg lever. Hopefully it stays that way
I think at this stage their seems a high instance of issues with the ZF. A lot of reported CG issues and also a couple movement issues (my last ZF also had movement issues from the onset). I really wanted this watch but as said im going to hold off until it seems like the QC improves or another manufacturer (VSF maybe?) Hits the market.
Ive picked up two of the new v3 KW's. Im pretty happy with the 1523, even though its got obvious tells its still a nice looking watch. Dissapointed with the 1392 though. Same issue i have with virtually all black faced KW's. The crystal / AR (im not sure which it is) still casts a strong yellow hue. The gen has a beautiful deep black subtle lustre whereas the rep looks washed out.
Its why for me i have a strong preference to the appearance (but not the QC problems) of the ZF. They just seem to get closer.
Ive picked up two of the new v3 KW's. Im pretty happy with the 1523, even though its got obvious tells its still a nice looking watch. Dissapointed with the 1392 though. Same issue i have with virtually all black faced KW's. The crystal / AR (im not sure which it is) still casts a strong yellow hue. The gen has a beautiful deep black subtle lustre whereas the rep looks washed out.
Its why for me i have a strong preference to the appearance (but not the QC problems) of the ZF. They just seem to get closer.
Thanks Maraach for your feedback! Interesting stuff.. I don't really mind about any tells, I just want a quality watch that looks gorgeous as well ofcourse..
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Thanks Maraach for your feedback! Interesting stuff.. I don't really mind about any tells, I just want a quality watch that looks gorgeous as well ofcourse..
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My view is that as long as you dont own a gen pam to compare it to you wont see any issues
. Most days (when im wearing a panerai) i wear my 351 or 438. Not surprisingly i dont own the gen of either. I wonder if i did if that would change anything. Either way they both look great to me. However the 320/329/1392 just dont have the same effect. I can tell immediately. We worry so much about movements, positions etc.... but we speak very little about the most important part - the face. The clarity of the gen is just so beautiful with the textured deep black dial. It makes the whole watch "pop". Something its hard to see from photos but if anyone is ever in my neck of the woods id be happy to show you.ZF are close enough in appearance for my tastes (though many disagree with this view). The movements on the other hand..... im pretty much done with them for now. 5 ZF's. 4 with movement troubles either immefiately or within 3 months. Im not happy with that ratio.
The reason we take the dial/crystal for granted nowadays is because compared to 4-5 years ago when you needed a custom dial and AR'ed crystal from one of the legendary modders like LH or EL, we are now pampered by reps that have good enough dials and AR out of the box. You could still go the custom route if you have the moolah to spare, but for most people that is no longer necessary.
Could you point me in the right direction mysterio? I find plenty of rolex crystal options but it seems a gen spec crystal doesnt fit our reps - i tried...
Not recommended to purchased any 1312 from either ZF or Noob. One big reason as the gold spin wheel on the rep
Is deeper than gen even they located same as 7
O'clock as original. Other than that by glance both watches hardly tells the differences.hopefully this will help
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Is deeper than gen even they located same as 7
O'clock as original. Other than that by glance both watches hardly tells the differences.hopefully this will help
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You are mixing models. The PAM1312 is using the P.9010 where the balance (gold spin) wheel is @11, the PAM312 is using the P.9000 where the balance wheel is @7. Also, Noob didn't make any PAM312/1312 reps.
Ohh sorry maybe I was confused. Let me have look again and see if I can dig any pic from the web.
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As I mentioned in the other post, the depth of the balance wheel on the rep P.9010 is mostly due to the addition of decorative plates on the A7750 to make it look the same as the in-house movement. No need to prove this, I am not at all surprised. But let's be happy that the position at least is now correct (previously the P.9000 had both positional and depth issues, now on the P.9010 it's only depth). Also these things are only for us rep collectors. Wearing on the wrist, not even the great Mr. Bonatti himself could tell the movement was different.
As I mentioned in the other post, the depth of the balance wheel on the rep P.9010 is mostly due to the addition of decorative plates on the A7750 to make it look the same as the in-house movement. No need to prove this, I am not at all surprised. But let's be happy that the position at least is now correct (previously the P.9000 had both positional and depth issues, now on the P.9010 it's only depth). Also these things are only for us rep collectors. Wearing on the wrist, not even the great Mr. Bonatti himself could tell the movement was different.
Yep agreed thanks for the reply. At least the position o the wheel are well and corrected. Overall it is still beautiful watch to have. Sorry for bong picky
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I didn't quite get the answer I was hoping for.. What about the KW version? If I am not mistaken it uses the slim case, but the Seagull ST movement. I understand that this is a solid movement as well, less easy to service, but more affordable. I believe the balance wheel is at the botton (6 o'clock position), but I believe I have seen pictures where it is @7 also..
However, I think I encountered some posts where it was mentioned that the latest versions were using 7750 movements as well, but I can be wrong about this..
I have seen quite a few posts talking about issues with the 7750 movements. Is this really something to worry about?
Since the KW version is cheaper, to me it looks like an interesting option. What do you guys think? Or is it worth spending a bit more on the ZF?
Any owners of the KW want to pitch in?
However, I think I encountered some posts where it was mentioned that the latest versions were using 7750 movements as well, but I can be wrong about this..
I have seen quite a few posts talking about issues with the 7750 movements. Is this really something to worry about?
Since the KW version is cheaper, to me it looks like an interesting option. What do you guys think? Or is it worth spending a bit more on the ZF?
Any owners of the KW want to pitch in?
The seagull has a balance wheel at 6. It is a cheaper movement. As far as im aware the kw's are all seagull's. It wouldnt be a surprise to hear they released an a7750 version but im yet to come across one.
Id do a bit of reading in this channel on movement and manufacturer. Ale is a fan of the KW and the seagull. Others have different opinions. I buy the one i like at the time. I personally prefer a serviced a7750 but thats just me.
Regardless id stay away from any watch that is having endemic QC issues unless you are feeling lucky. Thats why ive got 2 KW's in the 1xxx series.
Thanks Maraach for your feedback! Again, very informative!
I already read up a bit on the Seagull movement, and I don't really have something against it. As I mentioned before, I don't really it isn't an exact copy of the real one. I just want a quality piece that looks good.
Maybe I would prefer the 7750, but indeed I would like to avoid having any issues.
I already read up a bit on the Seagull movement, and I don't really have something against it. As I mentioned before, I don't really it isn't an exact copy of the real one. I just want a quality piece that looks good.
Maybe I would prefer the 7750, but indeed I would like to avoid having any issues.
Unfortunately, in our hobby, avoiding any issues, although desirable, is not always attainable. In all honesty, rep movements is a game in Russian Roulette. You either get lucky or you don't. Fortunately, there are more empty chambers for the rep game, so the chances of you getting shot is less likely.
Can't tell you which is better, I own reps with both movements and they've been pretty much running well. Seagull is cheaper but more expensive to repair, A7750 is more expensive but cheaper to repair; that is, if the movement needs repairing at all. If you're not after visual accuracy, then the Seagull is the cheapest.
Just a quick update on my ZF 1359:
- The slipping quick change date problem fixed itself after continuously wearing the watch for a week
- I removed the CG pin an reinserted it which for some reason fixed the loose CG lever in the closed position. I think the rubber bushing between the CG pin and the lever is in a slightly different position now and that's why it's not loose anymore in the closed position.
- When I reinserted the CG pin I pushed it in a little less deep. It's now flush with the CG. Looks perfect, I noticed the pin's top is chamfered giving it a gen like look.
I had another go today in trying to get my ZF 1312 to set the time.
As can be seen in the picture of my posting on the 27th Jan, the nut at the base of the winding mechanism was very much unscrewed. I was afraid to tighten it in case I did something wrong and damaged the workings. Today I was fed up of waiting and just turned the winding wheel clockwise whilst at the same time pushing it into the watch really hard. I focused on keeping a balanced pressure though, from both sides where I could grip the winding wheel. Slowly, very slowly, the nut screwed into the case and when it was as far in as I could get it, I manually wound the watch by turning the winding wheel counterclockwise whilst fully pushed in.
Then I pulled the winding wheel out and it actually went past the position for setting the date, thus allowing me to set the time without a problem.
Easiest fix!
Compare the position of the nut to the picture taken in my post of 27th. I'm really happy with this outcome and that I've figured out how to sort out the problem of setting the time in my watch.
It is a great looking timepiece and a pleasure to wear.
As can be seen in the picture of my posting on the 27th Jan, the nut at the base of the winding mechanism was very much unscrewed. I was afraid to tighten it in case I did something wrong and damaged the workings. Today I was fed up of waiting and just turned the winding wheel clockwise whilst at the same time pushing it into the watch really hard. I focused on keeping a balanced pressure though, from both sides where I could grip the winding wheel. Slowly, very slowly, the nut screwed into the case and when it was as far in as I could get it, I manually wound the watch by turning the winding wheel counterclockwise whilst fully pushed in.
Then I pulled the winding wheel out and it actually went past the position for setting the date, thus allowing me to set the time without a problem.
Easiest fix!
Compare the position of the nut to the picture taken in my post of 27th. I'm really happy with this outcome and that I've figured out how to sort out the problem of setting the time in my watch.
It is a great looking timepiece and a pleasure to wear.