Milgauss 1019: Rep to Gen Comparison... I have my opinion, what's yours?

[ThinkBachs]

I'm taking a deeeeeep breath right now. I noticed a vintage Milgauss for sale in the trade area, for $1800. This is what it looks like:

From everything I've been able to research, I can't seem to find anything that looks like it.

The Dial:
-this version was never offered with a white dial
-not a single Milgauss was ever made with markers that were all the same
-the dial is too small for the case
- the hands are correct, but because the dial is too small, they exceed the diameter of the markings
-the MILGAUSS stamp is incorrect, most notably the spacing of the L and G
-the rehaut is wrong

Gen Dials:

The Movement:
-from what I can find, not a single version of the 1560 movement represented as gen has ever been made by Rolex.

Here are the gen 1560 movements I've been able to find...

So the question is, how could anyone consider this to be worth $1800?

:thinking:

 

[Time4Direct]

It's not but some crazy will buy it to put with their $2000 moded fiddy next to their $2000 Franklin Planet ocean in the same box as their VDB $5000 rep vintage .

So you can never say if it's worth it or not to me and you no but to some it may be their grail

 

[ThinkBachs]

Holy Grail this and send me the balance as a finders fee!

The only problem is that it has a higher beat of 28800 BPH than the gen movement of 19800 BPH...

$285 :woot:



While looking around, I found this neat version...

And this one for $70!

 

[ThinkBachs]

Nice gen shot...

 

[JellyJoe]

hahaha 1800$ for that?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[indyberetta]

1

 

[indyberetta]

1

 

[JC7]

God I love this place..

 

[ThinkBachs]

:stir:

 

[pilworx]

This is not a true rep as most of you know here...i.e. cheap china rep...this is intended as a real counterfeit. You can find these at gen watch dealer shows through the world. It is just an elevated level of our replica collecting.

whoa, wait a minute, can somebody tell me where the line between the rep world and the gen world is again?

"...you can find these at gen watch dealer shows..." ??

huh?

 

[indyberetta]

1

 

[LHOOQ]

Hmm... I know I'm late to the party, but let me comment on the first post in the thread.

-My first thought was this is a silver dial, and it's very difficult to capture the color and texture of a silver dial in pictures. I know the seller said it's white, but I'm almost certain that this is a Phong dial. It's described as being silver on his website.
-The case is likely from Phong as well, though I don't think he sells it anymore. The dimensions seem mostly correct. Flat sides are nice, and so are the deep caseback and iron shield. Where these rep cases drop the ball is the rehaut, which shows too much of the dial.

If you sum up the total cost of parts, $1700 is a reasonable price. I wouldn't pay it given the inaccuracies, and the fact that I don't like spending that much on a rep. But it's fair.

Last year, someone on RWG was selling an outstanding franken 1019 made from a modified NDT case, gen dial, hands, tube &c. To top it all off, it even had a 1580 movement! It sold for $5000.

 

[LHOOQ]

One more thing: There was a similar situation (possibly in another rep forum) where someone reported an eBay sale of a vintage Omega SM300 that was clearly labeled a "project watch". The seller was upfront about it: The case was aftermarket, but all other parts were well chosen and genuine Omega. It was a great-looking watch that wound up selling for just under $700. I wish I'd bought it.

Thing is, there are worse fake Seamaster 300s on eBay that are sold as gens for $2000-3000. That one did not deserve to be called out, and it seemed hypocritical to me that guys on a rep forum were the ones blowing the whistle.

 

[Exploder]

-My first thought was this is a silver dial, and it's very difficult to capture the color and texture of a silver dial in pictures. I know the seller said it's white, but I'm almost certain that this is a Phong dial. It's described as being silver on his website.

The case may very well be a Phong but the dial is definitely not. It's a (very) white standard-looking dial (which is too small for the case), absolutely not silver, look at the other pics in the sales thread. It does NOT look "absolutely authentic" as the seller claims.

However, the high price for this piece is mainly due to the "gen" movement, and I have never seen such a poorly engraved 1560 with such a shock absorber. I have doubts that it is gen, but hopefully I am totally wrong.

 

[LHOOQ]

The case may very well be a Phong but the dial is definitely not. It's a (very) white standard-looking dial (which is too small for the case), absolutely not silver, look at the other pics in the sales thread. It does NOT look "absolutely authentic" as the seller claims.

I agree that the dial is terrible, and not "absolutely authentic" looking. But go to jewelryandwatch.com and look under Rolex Spare Parts-->Dials-->Other Rolex Dials. Or skip all that and look here.

Same identical markers, same crappy quality. All for the low, low price of $265.

 

[JellyJoe]

Claiming jewellers sell fakes or frankens to justify that ridiculous price is simply hysteria. Where? Who does or did that?
If I don't have to bring evidence to give substance to my words I will say that all men are noobs, only some will not admit it. Proove me wrong.
If seller spent all his own substances to build an ugly watch it's his own right, but claiming that watch looks gen is a lie. I have been interested in vintage Rolexes for 20 years and that watch looks fake from a mile.
Truth is with 1500$- you can buy a splendid Precision, not a franken, A gen vintage Rolex with a story to tell, with papers and box and a serial on its side.
Whoever buys that watch has to be aware that it doesnt look like a gen and it is insanely overpriced.
Add to that the 10 posts count, first sale here for 1800$ and you will have an idea whom you are dealing with here.
If some noob gets ****** here who is taking responsability?

 

[Exploder]

I agree that the dial is terrible, and not "absolutely authentic" looking. But go to jewelryandwatch.com and look under Rolex Spare Parts-->Dials-->Other Rolex Dials. Or skip all that and look here.

I stand corrected, you are absolutely right - that dial looks identical to the one in this thread! Never realized his stuff could be so crappy. Dials from ND Trading aren't that much more expensive and look considerably better?

Still don't get it: Why is the dial too small for the case?

If I don't have to bring evidence to give substance to my words I will say that all men are gay...

But Joe, you can't judge all men based on your own prenocturnal thoughts and activities...
:gay: (And there was actually an icon for that?!)*

Add to that the 10 posts count, first sale here for 1800$ and you will have an idea whom you are dealing with here.

Well, that was actually his second sale @ $1800 on this forum! (Which may be a bit worrisome? http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/rolex-6541-old-school-lightning-56346)

If some noob gets ****** here who is taking responsability?

In this case I think we all were, with Thinkbachs in the lead. Even if the case + dial are Phong (which the seller never said) and if the movement is gen, meaning that we all are wrong and it may actually be worth the $1800 (to somebody), I think we asked the right questions and the seller's attitude that he did not have time to answer our questions may prove us right?




* Just to make sure that we are all ok here. I have nothing against gay people. Several of my best friends are gay and I work in an environment where there are many gay, both men and women.

 

[ThinkBachs]

My point in bringing this up is that I know how it feels to purchase a watch that someone made grand and excessive claims about, on top of posts from the seller's buddies raving "what a nice watch," "great deal!," "won't last long!" to help their buddy get a watch sold. Only to discover that I was duped.

That experience has stayed with me to this day. It sucks being a newbie looking for your first replica. It sucks even more to discover that you spent way more than you should have and are stuck with a piece of trash based on the trust you put in the opinions of others who don't have your best interests in mind.

This is in no way meant to imply that the majority of descriptions and supporting comments left on sales threads are exaggerated, and certainly they are not on this forum. But they do happen often enough on other forums and now that I have the experience and background in this hobby, I feel it's important to share that with those who might be in the same frame of mind I was way back then.

I'm proud to be a member of a forum that has been and continues to be a respectable place where everyone of all levels of experience can gather to enjoy a past-time that results in a positive experience. If I can contribute to that experience in some small way, then that just makes the hobby all that more enjoyable for me.

 

[LHOOQ]

I stand corrected, you are absolutely right - that dial looks identical to the one in this thread! Never realized his stuff could be so crappy. Dials from ND Trading aren't that much more expensive and look considerably better?

Still don't get it: Why is the dial too small for the case?

To be fair, NDTrading also sells its share of crap cases and dials, as does Yuki. But Phong charges top dollars for his crap!

I really think the problem is down to the rehaut, which is very thin on the rep. The Milgauss takes a dial that's ~29mm, but a good deal of it is covered up. I'm taking a wild guess, but maybe the case is partially based on a Tudor Jumbo? It's 37-38mm with flat sides, it shows off more of its 30mm dial, and it's not that rare.

 

[POTR]

Jack, the 6541 was very well executed with only a few minor issues,

This is not even in the same category...

You are as overpriced on this listing as you are under-priced on the 6541.