MCD's Aquanaut Thoughts: ZF vs 3KF V3. (2023)

[mclarendude]

So, before I start, this is my opinion. Not crapping on anyone or anything.

I shared some thoughts on the Supporters only area about my somewhat frustration with ZF and what they're doing to catch up to 3KF in this case.

Those who know, ZF has been doing a very damn good 5167 for years. I've had too many to count. I think 4.

Just a few days ago, I bought from the M2M their latest version, and the seller attached this link:

PP0291 - Aquanaut Ref.5167 SS/RU Black/Num ZF 1:1 MY9015 Mod [PP0291] - $478.00 : Trusty Time Watch, Your Trusty Watch Shop

Trusty Time Watch PP0291 - Aquanaut Ref.5167 SS/RU Black/Num ZF 1:1 MY9015 Mod [PP0291] - ZF Factory Top Edition Patek Aquanaut 5167 Edition Made 1:1 with a Genuine Patek Aquanaut Ref.5167 Series MOVEMENT: Platinum Plated Miyota 9015 Automatic (28,800bph) Movement with Decorated Bridges/Plates...

trustytime888.io

Andrew quotes on his page the following specs.

MOVEMENT: Platinum Plated Miyota 9015 Automatic (28,800bph) Movement with Decorated Bridges/Plates and Gold Plated Rotor with Insignia like Genuine Calibre PP324CS (Only Edition in the market with same position Balance Wheel as per Genuine)

As I said before, I've had my fair share of these and thought nothing of it, until I set it on the timegrapher. With the correct MY9015 lift angle, this thing was running like crap and I just wasn't able to regulate it to my taste. Those who know me, know how my tastes in that regard are very anal. It's the one thing I choose to invest my sanity in on this hobby.

Amplitude was in the very low 200's, averaging 215 and the rate was just either -10 or +10. Nothing in between. I hurt my COSC ego that I could not get it even close to +5/-5.

Having dealt with many of these, some will recall my last one having being sold for parts because of ZF's mods to the 9015. Those mods include the shaving of the mainplate's integrated dial spacer to acommodate their very good date-wheel with correct font threw a wrench into what should had been a straight swap.

So, getting those low numbers, I pulled out a brand new 9015 from my stock and went ahead to try to swap the balance complete with bridge. I couldn't.

"what has ZF done now?" I said to myself dumb founded. They literally have moved the balance around. Not only that, they created a brand new balance complete for it. I can hear @KJ2020 say "just one-dip it and oil it bro". I feared the usual "this is probably low quality first attempts by ZF."

On the pictures on Andrew's site, you can see that they used the MY balance complete as the stud carriers are the same as any normal MY9015. Mine weren't like that.

Mine:

"What are you on about?" you guys might ask. I sincerely think that ZF has taken the 9015 to its limit and beyond in the case of the Aquanaut. My last one ran perfectly with the deco plates it had. I just wanted to get a new movement in it.

The case for the 3KF V3. I know that there has been some items with the 3KF that might be of reserve to some. But at this point and after owning one, I cannot see a reason why not to go for a 3KF except the price difference which is not that much considering all the possibilities it brings to the table and other things like:

1. The strap is not half as bad as some make it to be. Yes, the 3KF is a little starchy, but not enough to be uncomfortable. Currently wearing it and I don't feel the watch on my wrist.
2. The watch feels better made, more refined.
3. The clasp is orgasmic compared to the ZF. The ZF clasp will gap unless you shave a little off the top of the ends and if you do too much, the watch will fly off your wrist. The 3KF one needs no shaving. Just cut and go.
4. The clone movement. It took me a minute to regulate into my standards. Lift angle of 0.1 and and +1 s/d.
5. The clone movement. You can do so much crap to this. Dials, datewheels, hands.
6. The clone movement. Correct case diameters. I thought I wouldn't notice, but I did as soon as I got it on.

"But MCD, there MUST be something wrong with it!!"

Yes, there is. It doesn't hack. It doesn't have a hack mechanism per gen. The one thing I do not understand about Patek. But thankfully, I've grown accustomed to it thanks to my Panerai 005.

There is no longer a reason for me to go for the ZF again, unless you really cannot afford the $100-ish difference and you cannot justify it to yourself that the 3KF is better. Yeah, there might be some aesthetic differences, but once you handle both, you'll soon realize you get the $100 extra worth on the 3KF.

If you just want an Aquanaut just because, then sure, get the ZF. Best simile I can do here: The ZF is ARF's attempt at the Daytona, it looks like one but that's pretty much it. Once it craps on you, it craps on you. The 3KF is Clean's attempt at the Daytona, it does a great job being a Daytona and you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

Wristies just three days apart.

ZF:

3KF v3

Look at those numbers!

 

[daytonadude]

Welcome to the dark side.

I recommend:

• Keylog datewheel over Buff, too many misalignments.
• Reshape the case by removing the two lines on the 9 o’clock side
• Dial + hands are really a question of preference.
  • I prefer Buff’s dial aesthetically but it’s closer to an Aquanaut from before when Patek changed the lume to a whiter color. I believe Buff may have updated theirs to a whiter lume, which is too bad imo. But the sunburst looks so great.
  • SW is very nice but as pointed out by @majwilliams0308 the hour markers are too flat, whereas gen is somewhat more bubble shaped. If your stock 3KF dial’s logo alignment is correct, you should consider keeping it.
• Engraved movement: elusive, expensive… but love it!

Did you get the new clasp?

 

[mclarendude]

Welcome to the dark side.

I recommend:

• Keylog datewheel over Buff, too many misalignments.
• Reshape the case by removing the two lines on the 9 o’clock side
• Dial + hands are really a question of preference.
  • I prefer Buff’s dial aesthetically but it’s closer to an Aquanaut from before when Patek changed the lume to a whiter color. I believe Buff may have updated theirs to a whiter lume, which is too bad imo. But the sunburst looks so great.
  • SW is very nice but as pointed out by @majwilliams0308 the hour markers are too flat, whereas gen is somewhat more bubble shaped. If your stock 3KF dial’s logo alignment is correct, you should consider keeping it.
• Engraved movement: elusive, expensive… but love it!

Did you get the new clasp?

At some point, things to consider. Currently just in the honeymoon phase!

 

[blunt_0000]

Great post, thank you. Finally a good 5167 pro/contra guide for ZF versus 3KF. I also don’t understand the hate the 3KF strap gets. I have then gen strap at home, compared both and despite minor differences, the 3KF is not bad at all. The gen clasp of course is another ball park. But the whole watch is highly enjoyable as a package. Enjoy the honeymoon phase

 

[KJ2020]

Very interesting read bro, thanks. I've never had an Aquanaut but often thought about trying one out. Even considered the V6F A2824 version. There's a lot to be said for no deco plate and a workhorse movement if you aren't a model fanatic.

I share your frustration with a crappy balance, it totally sucks to lose a whole movement over a $20 part that is so hard to get. I would indeed try the Dip and oil treatment, haha - you never know!

The RG and brown dial 3KF looks great, I could see sporting one of those around if I decide to go big. I always wondered about 3KF's stature with this model, your comparison to CLEAN's Daytona really helps put it in perspective. Well done and enjoy your 3KF!

 

[madedo]

Reshape the case by removing the two lines on the 9 o’clock side

May I ask what this reshape means/ what needs to be done?
Thank you!

 

[evilgenius88]

I'm currently in the middle of a 3KF modding project with @CTime

In the QC shot (long greenlit), you can clearly see that the midcase on the non-crown side has two edges, similar to the way the thin bit of the bezel edges too. This is incorrect per gen.



A few examples from past M2M sales where the 3KF cases were reshaped to remove such edges (and then rebrushed, of course):

 

[wizzzard]

Great write up @mclarendude - thanks for sharing.

 

[silentcut]

very interesting post. Thank you for your review.

 

[mclarendude]

@evilgenius88, I think that it is great that so many have great eye and taste for such detail, I sadly don’t and I am just not that bent over by the inaccuracies. Not saying it is a wrong thing! Just doesn’t appeal to me.

In my view and the reasons I buy reps is that they’re actually correctly represented. Not like one of those cheap rep DateJust with a Submariner name on the dial kind of thing.

It’s an Aquanaut rep and it looks like it!

At any rate, I think we can all agree that the 3KF is also the best base for mods.

 

[evilgenius88]

@evilgenius88, I think that it is great that so many have great eye and taste for such detail, I sadly don’t and I am just not that bent over by the inaccuracies. Not saying it is a wrong thing! Just doesn’t appeal to me.

In my view and the reasons I buy reps is that they’re actually correctly represented. Not like one of those cheap rep DateJust with a Submariner name on the dial kind of thing.

It’s an Aquanaut rep and it looks like it!

At any rate, I think we can all agree that the 3KF is also the best base for mods.

I agree with you that how much work you want to put into a rep is a personal choice. To me, part of a maturing rep journey is about:

1. Realizing no rep will ever truly be without flaws / tells
2. Learning which flaws you personally can live with
3. Understanding how much return you'll get by spending extra $ and work to get something on your rep to be "better"

I wanted to get a heavily upgraded Aquanaut and was fine with spending 1000 to 1500 all-in. I've seen people on RWI go über franken, but for me, it's a step too far: spending an extra 5000 bucks to get a few "percent" closer to gen.

And I've had the benefit of convenience: @CTime and Mr.Wang offered the case reshaping work for a very fair price, and I thought, if they're opening up the hood and doing all the work - why not get this done as well?

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

Great write up mcd. Im starting to go off zf purely because of their movement butchering. Got a zf 16202 recently and the movement shit it self within a week. They have taken my favourite part of the 9015, the balance jewels and springs, and replaced them with crappy kif spring’s similar to an eta 28xx movement. Very odd. Even after servicing it, the amplitude is now through the roof (320+…) but its occasionally over banking. I think im just going to stick in an actual miyota. Plus i miss quick date changes even if they arent on the gen watch.

Could you not just use their dial spacer on a stock 9015 to get the zf where you want it to be? Kind of irrelevant now you have a better watch and im sure you thought to try it but thought its worth mentioning!

 

[mclarendude]

Could you not just use their dial spacer on a stock 9015 to get the zf where you want it to be? Kind of irrelevant now you have a better watch and im sure you thought to try it but thought its worth mentioning!

I tried. Then the rotor was pressed onto the caseback. ZF thins the movement so a gen OOTB 9015 didn’t work unless it was modded to ZF’s standards.

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

I tried. Then the rotor was pressed onto the caseback. ZF thins the movement so a gen OOTB 9015 didn’t work unless it was modded to ZF’s standards.

Ah man that sucks! Can’t believe they changed the direction of the bloody balance though. Seems like a massive modification for minimal results. I guess there isnt much on the mainplate until you get near the gold autowinding wheels on a standard 9015. They were silver on my zf movement too weirdly. Might be thinner than standard i didnt check.

 

[majwilliams0308]

If you just want an Aquanaut just because, then sure, get the ZF. Best simile I can do here: The ZF is ARF's attempt at the Daytona, it looks like one but that's pretty much it. Once it craps on you, it craps on you. The 3KF is Clean's attempt at the Daytona, it does a great job being a Daytona and you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

This is 100% the sentiment I share with you.

I am going to make a PSA eventually once I have another one in for service, but the ZF movement that they use is a modified 9015, not even a true 9015. I have had one come in for a repair that had a broken post on the mainplate. I could not fix it, and could not swap the main plate with a different Miyota as the ZF mainplate was larger. This meant the movement didn't properly fit into the case either.

The ZF movement is just as precarious to service as the 3kf because two of the main components - the balance wheel and the mainplate - can not be interchangeable with any other movement than the same one. And you cannot buy these on any chinese site (that I can find).

Do you want the most robust movement? Choose either, because if anything goes wrong with either, you're going to need a replacement movement. Although I've been collecting spare cal. 324s for awhile now.

 

[silentcut]

This is 100% the sentiment I share with you.

I am going to make a PSA eventually once I have another one in for service, but the ZF movement that they use is a modified 9015, not even a true 9015. I have had one come in for a repair that had a broken post on the mainplate. I could not fix it, and could not swap the main plate with a different Miyota as the ZF mainplate was larger. This meant the movement didn't properly fit into the case either.

The ZF movement is just as precarious to service as the 3kf because two of the main components - the balance wheel and the mainplate - can not be interchangeable with any other movement than the same one. And you cannot buy these on any chinese site (that I can find).

Do you want the most robust movement? Choose either, because if anything goes wrong with either, you're going to need a replacement movement. Although I've been collecting spare cal. 324s for awhile now.

I will have to contact you then if anything goes wrong in my watch . Does the TD/supplier don't accept the watches to repair and ship back to the customers even if they pay for repairs ?

 

[RollyAP]

I thought the latest 3KF Aquanauts did have a hacking seconds hand? Or is it just a Cal 330 engraving?

 

[bpbp]

I thought the latest 3KF Aquanauts did have a hacking seconds hand? Or is it just a Cal 330 engraving?

No, no any different from ctime tell me, only updates is just the buckles, and the v3 movement are worse then v2 the new batches has different plate color, one plate has PP seal is more yellowish then other plates, ctime were tell me all the batches has same issuem

 

[bpbp]

I'm currently in the middle of a 3KF modding project with @CTime

In the QC shot (long greenlit), you can clearly see that the midcase on the non-crown side has two edges, similar to the way the thin bit of the bezel edges too. This is incorrect per gen.



A few examples from past M2M sales where the 3KF cases were reshaped to remove such edges (and then rebrushed, of course):

The picture of gen watch you post, look like the all case has been re polish, And is poor quality polish.

 

[evilgenius88]

The picture of gen watch you post, look like the all case has been re polish, And is poor quality polish.

There is no pic of a gen watch up there. All reps.