Making a gilt dial (not decal)

[chrome72]

chrome72 ...
100% with you about points 1 to 5
Then white paint and lume ... that's how I proceed on my Doxa dials and it works perfectly ...

you plate your dials? I assumed you just painted and wet sanded and that would be a back up plan if I couldn’t figure this out and or it wasnt feasible.

 

[p0pperini]

My apologies for the mundane nature of my interjections in this thread, but could I ask where that info graphic came from? Is it from a website where there's more interesting Rolex dial info, or from a book?

 

[Sidney.Shaw]

My apologies for the mundane nature of my interjections in this thread, but could I ask where that info graphic came from? Is it from a website where there's more interesting Rolex dial info, or from a book?

Following this thread

p0pperini believe it is from rolexhaven.com, very informative material on there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[p0pperini]

p0pperini believe it is from rolexhaven.com, very informative material on there

Thank you Mr. Shaw. Turns out I’d bookmarked that site - but must have done so a long time ago, as I’d no recollection of seeing it before! It certainly is a mine of information, albeit in a very (appropriately) clunky old format.

 

[deadpan]

Thank you Mr. Shaw. Turns out I’d bookmarked that site - but must have done so a long time ago, as I’d no recollection of seeing it before! It certainly is a mine of information, albeit in a very (appropriately) clunky old format.

Off topic, but for those of us of a certain age-who perhaps remember a time when the internet was ‘new’-old websites have a certain beauty all of their own. I recently introduced someone to the wayback machine (which I’d temporarily forgotten about) , and spent a little while looking at how some websites had changed over the last twenty odd years!

 

[Sidney.Shaw]

Thank you Mr. Shaw. Turns out I’d bookmarked that site - but must have done so a long time ago, as I’d no recollection of seeing it before! It certainly is a mine of information, albeit in a very (appropriately) clunky old format.

You’re welcome. Yes I did come across it and then kind of totally forgot about it. I must admit the layout is... let’s just say funky.

 

[manodeoro]

My apologies for the mundane nature of my interjections in this thread, but could I ask where that info graphic came from? Is it from a website where there's more interesting Rolex dial info, or from a book?

rolexhavenDOTcom ...
Not only about dials ... everything about small crowns ...

 

[chrome72]

Always throwing out there I tried to talk to MKII about their process but they said they are not allowed to disclose who makes their dials or the process. NTH watches has a nice gilt dial however they made theirs with enamel black paint and left gaps for the gilt portion.

 

[chrome72]

for getting the design onto the disc that will essentially be a liquid mask which will prevent plating, Any reason why I wouldn’t make a stamp to stamp on the design of the watch onto the brass disc vs pad printing the design on? Is there a reason why pad printing might be better?

 

[chrome72]

This is idea vomit more for me to come back and reread. I think I found a super easy cheat to get what I want and not have to make a 3D stamp or pad print and tinker with which kinds of liquid masks would work and give me consistent results...I am lifting strategy from the people who make their own circuit boards here but excluding the step of etching the design onto copper. I can essentially create a mask via toner from a laser jet and iron it onto the dial which should create a pretty accurate mask in the brass, this is essentially a temporary tattoo. I would then electroplate and do the chemical reaction, then remove the toner and should be left with a negative relief galvanic dial! After spending waaaay to much time researching I found someone who did something very similar albeit a brass plate then plated in zinc so the concept should work great.

Inching forward to reality.

 

[Spoons]

This is idea vomit more for me to come back and reread. I think I found a super easy cheat to get what I want and not have to make a 3D stamp or pad print and tinker with which kinds of liquid masks would work and give me consistent results...I am lifting strategy from the people who make their own circuit boards here but excluding the step of etching the design onto copper. I can essentially create a mask via toner from a laser jet and iron it onto the dial which should create a pretty accurate mask in the brass, this is essentially a temporary tattoo. I would then electroplate and do the chemical reaction, then remove the toner and should be left with a negative relief galvanic dial! After spending waaaay to much time researching I found someone who did something very similar albeit a brass plate then plated in zinc so the concept should work great.

Inching forward to reality.

Hello,

I was going to suggest something like this, which I have seen done to etch designs onto knives using press-n-peel transfer paper: https://www.instructables.com/Detailed-Acid-Etching-With-a-Stencil/

 

[chrome72]

I’m doubting my idea of the black portion of the dial after looking at pics of water damaged gilt dials. I see bubbling and I can’t find anything like that on a a electroplated surface. The black coating can’t be a dye because I have only read about that in aluminum. Additionally I have seen bubbling from the radium lume which I don’t think could happen on an electroplated surface with a chemical conversion. I’m guessing the black really is just some sort of “paint” over a galvanized coating like gold maybe? Thoughts?

I am guessing my options are now

1- gold plate. Stamp image into disc with a liquid mask. Paint. And remove mask. I’m not sure I can dissolve the toner transfer while not removing paint at the same time so toner transfer might not work. .
2- gold plate. Paint the dial with maybe an automotive enamel paint and then laser engrave.

 

[kilowattore]

If you laser etch the indices they will result carved, recessed. This is not correct for 5512/1675/6538 dials only some early explorers (I think 6604) had that effect.
I have no idea of the process but for sure it must include some sort of plating to make dial surface so glossy and gold coloured. Black is definitely paint of some sort, applied on top.
if you study brown tropical dials made in vietnam (the only one that can easily be accessed) you will notice the brown color is some sort of ink added in the last steps, it is evident in the way brown sometimes makes sort of water ripples or "clouds" on the surface of dial.
I know it's not very technical but maybe it can help

 

[manodeoro]

I've talked to a guy who use chemical dip black coating (hematite) to blacken metal parts.
He said that, depending on the heat applied, the dip duration and the composition of metal, the coating can develop some chips and bubbles along the time.
He also said that some shaddy brown areas can appear on the black coating.
He consider all this as defects but that sounds really close to what makes some old gilt dials so collectable.

 

[Sidney.Shaw]

Excellent, excellent read and some meticulous research the OP has had to carry out.
Not familiar with the process at all and I understand this is looking into the processes used way back when, However I thought I would add, some dial makers out of Vietnam use something called Print Mark when producing true gilt dials. Assuming this isn't an original method but maybe useful for further research and/or if anyone knows anything further on this

 

[Raddave]

Theres a thread on .cc about this

 

[chrome72]

Theres a thread on .cc about this

What is .cc?

 

[Sidney.Shaw]

What is .cc?

Maybe RWG.cc...

 

[manodeoro]

Theres a thread on .cc about this

link please

 

[Raddave]

https://rwg.cc/topic/196701-rolex-sub-franken-help/?do=findComment&comment=1575040