Making a gilt dial (not decal)

[manodeoro]

that looks fantastic, what case set is that? would love to build a 3H FF

I really don't want to spoil that thread so please let's talk about that here ... or in the thread I'll create when that build will be finished

 

[chrome72]

Ok so it’s been a hot minute since I’ve had time to tinker. My main limitation is good lord the pad printing ink smells up the house and lingers. Needed to wait for a day when wife was gone!

I spent about 30 minutes tinkering with ink/thinner ratios as the recommended ratio didn’t quite seem to work. This is my best effort of printed mask. It’s a lot crisper than toner transfer.

Anyone have ideas for making a dial holder that lines up with the center of the pad so no tinkering with alignment is needed?

 

[chrome72]

Also another thing to add is that pad printing requires the right amount of pressure for both picking up the ink from the cliche and the right amount of pressure onto the metal. That required a lot of tinkering as well.

 

[Dohdoh]

Awesome boys! I was also thinking about pad printing dials myself and regarding the pressure, I would like to buy a automated one... But they're pricey. Have you tried applying more layers to create some crisp and thickness? Many thanks for sharing your journey and I am happily following your progress

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[chrome72]

Have you tried applying more layers to create some crisp and thickness?

I did multiple layers on some tests on sheets of paper and I could tell a slight difference. No reason why you couldn’t do many layers once your dial is centered and anchored in to a dial holder.

 

[chrome72]

Struck up a conversation with a dad outside my daughters bus stop. Got to talking about doing projects. He told me he had a lathe and I mocked up a drawing of a dial holder and asked if he could make it in his lathe. He was happy to help and have I think the last piece of my puzzle… a dial holder that centers onto my pad printer and centers the dial. I made it so the dial holder will take all dials that have 2mm openings on them and it will take up to 30mm dials. This is just my prototype. Have a “nicer” one being finished by him.

hopefully soon I can go back to a real print now that my machine is calibrated can hold a dial

 

[manodeoro]

Struck up a conversation with a dad outside my daughters bus stop. Got to talking about doing projects. He told me he had a lathe and I mocked up a drawing of a dial holder and asked if he could make it in his lathe. He was happy to help and have I think the last piece of my puzzle… a dial holder that centers onto my pad printer and centers the dial. I made it so the dial holder will take all dials that have 2mm openings on them and it will take up to 30mm dials. This is just my prototype. Have a “nicer” one being finished by him.

hopefully soon I can go back to a real print now that my machine is calibrated can hold a dial

Nice !!!

Something you could add to your prototype is holes for dial feet so that the dial plate cannot turn/slip while printing.
You could drill holes correspondong to the the different calibers you could use (ETA 28XXX, ETA 27XXX, 3135 clones, gen movement, etc ...).

Of course, doing this, you will loose the possibility to rotate the dial but to be honest I don't think that rotating the dial manually can be a good option.
Here's something you could insert between the pad printer and your custom dial holder.

 

[chrome72]

That is a great idea. I am just using blanks I polish and drill center holes into and they don’t have feet. Maybe as I get more proficient and get better dials I will branch out into this idea.

 

[chrome72]

Nice !!!

Something you could add to your prototype is holes for dial feet so that the dial plate cannot turn/slip while printing.
You could drill holes correspondong to the the different calibers you could use (ETA 28XXX, ETA 27XXX, 3135 clones, gen movement, etc ...).

Of course, doing this, you will loose the possibility to rotate the dial but to be honest I don't think that rotating the dial manually can be a good option.
Here's something you could insert between the pad printer and your custom dial holder.

What is that thing called? I googled high and low for “dial holder” and various variations and didn’t see anything like this.

 

[manodeoro]

What is that thing called? I googled high and low for “dial holder” and various variations and didn’t see anything like this.

It's a "micrometric" rotating table ... 120€ shipped on AliE
looks like a copy of the MISUMI Rotary/Micrometer Head ... 305€ plus shipping

I'm not certain for what purpose that is produced but it looks really close to the rotary micrometer tools you can get for high end horological pad-printers

 

[chrome72]

I think this is good enough for my personal use. I’m a tad off on the y axis and not sure how to control for that. I’m not sure if that will matter. Lacquering it up today.

thoughts?

 

[Natas78]

Why bother with these elaborate technique when this can be achieved with just a simple decal?
I printed a few of these last night using Bart Cordell’s template, just one layer, used decal solution to make it look painted on, and that’s it.
Almost flawless.

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[chrome72]

Why bother with these elaborate technique when this can be achieved with just a simple decal?

excellent question. Decals are good but I wanted the next step. I can force patina the lacquer to get golden hues via UV light. I am somewhat confident I can make a dial turn tropical too since I’m using the same type of lacquer that was used on the generation of dials that turned tropical. Tropical dials weren’t common when rolex changed the type of lacquer is my understanding.

i also have a gilt dial that I made. The layer of translucent decal over the gilt part dulls the shimmer of the gilt. Having exposed brass makes the dial light up like lightning. It’s a big step up in terms of shimmer. You could get this from the film free method for a decal but lacking in what I wrote above in terms of potential for tropicalization.

 

[chrome72]

Also I can get these gilt dials made for any size dial. My goal is to make them fit cases that fit 29mm dials so people don’t have to buy a $300+ dial from Vietnam that is 27mm or whatever and then have to buy the case that fits the dials which costs near $1K.

 

[p0pperini]

Why bother with these elaborate technique when this can be achieved with just a simple decal?
I printed a few of these last night using Bart Cordell’s template, just one layer, used decal solution to make it look painted on, and that’s it.
Almost flawless.

I have yet to see a single laser/inkjet printed decal dial that didn’t look a little bit disappointing when viewed through a macro lens (and I like to take macro photos of my watches).

So I was pretty thrilled to get the chance to be involved in chrome72’s pad printing project, as it has the potential for results that are far higher quality than decals printed using even high end home printers - because it’s the same technique used in printing the genuine articles.


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[Natas78]

Of course they look a bit disappointing through a macro lens… but to achieve true gilt negative relief effect that looks good enough to wear, let alone photograph through macro lens is not going to be easy doing it DIY
I follow this thread and wish you all the luck in the world
God knows I’ve tried !

Here’s a decal macro
(This watch was originally a Pagani 44mm Sub homage, reshaped it, removed the “gold” coating, printed, made and lumed the gilt dial all in less than 48 hours lol)

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[d4v3]

Hey nice thread OP, no t so long ago i was talking with a former viet parts dealer and we started to talk about the gilt dials, all the versions up there all the models blabla small talk but i recall that he mentioned that true gilt dials are time consuming to make because they are made using that technique that consist into puting the print over water and then "catching" it with the plate, just like many car parts are custom modded to logos and so, check out this video for the process that i mean (you can find more searhing Hydro dipping)

take a looke in here for the vid----> https://youtu.be/IyeJcmJ_2g4

 

[manodeoro]

Hey nice thread OP, no t so long ago i was talking with a former viet parts dealer and we started to talk about the gilt dials, all the versions up there all the models blabla small talk but i recall that he mentioned that true gilt dials are time consuming to make because they are made using that technique that consist into puting the print over water and then "catching" it with the plate, just like many car parts are custom modded to logos and so, check out this video for the process that i mean (you can find more searhing Hydro dipping)

take a looke in here for the vid----> https://youtu.be/IyeJcmJ_2g4

I'm not 100% certain that method could be used to make true gilt dials ... to be honest I'm 99% certain it cannot ????

 

[d4v3]

I'm not 100% certain that method could be used to make true gilt dials ... to be honest I'm 99% certain it cannot ????

Could you elaborate on the reason why? my TD sent quite a few high quality dials ( whih doesnt means he is saying the truth but also dont see a reason for him to lie) our chat was related to why gilt dials are more expensive and he said "many attempts and errors are necessary until goes super perfect, so thats time consuming so more expensive bla bla"

but i would love to know your view, i was thinking to give it a try with a few cartel dial that i was planning to polish to mirror and true gold plate and then attempt the hydro dipping as there are multiple videos of people painting over chrome, steel and plastic...

 

[p0pperini]

Could you elaborate on the reason why?

Because your VN dealer didn't have a clue what they were talking about?

That hydro technique is impractical for watch dials. It's nowhere near precise enough to position a piece of floating dial artwork on a dial less than 30mm diameter. And if this was the technique used to make true gilt dials, then those here who have spent considerable time researching the subject would know that this is how it's done. And it isn't. But hey, that's no reason to dismiss it as a fun technique to try. But as mentioned before, decals (no matter what technique is used to get them on the dial) will not result in print quality as good as the results from using the correct carrier for the printing image - a pad printing plate.