Lets look at this interesting 16610

[HulkyGalore]

Some time ago I saw a cheap 16610LV for sale. After a week it sold and I thought, I should have bought that. I needed a case, love 5 digit subs and could have used it. It even had some bits of the original metal bracelet. Apparently, from mid 2000's.

Then recently, the person who had bought it, sold it having changed the green insert for a black one, and changed the strap again. So with an extra insert and a few straps, I bought it. My intention was to use the case and parts, but before figuring out its compatibility with other bits I decided to restore it to its original form, that green insert has a good colour to it.

Some play in the bezel, and the strap parts were missing links and screws. The holes in the links were smaller than any of the other screws I had, look like a different standard soon resolved by opening up the holes slightly. Fortunately I had some spare links from this style of bracelet with the brushed, not shiny sides.

A few pictures to start. Please comment on the case, would it be a good option for modding? I have read the RAF thread and see (expensive) TC's and realise that decent 16610 cases are not easy to find.

I bent the ring sections to improve the clicking a bit:

 

[HulkyGalore]

Some more pictures:

 

[HulkyGalore]

Back is now off, here is the movement. The seal is in great condition, bearing in mind the age of the watch. Note the small strip of brass under one of the movement mounting screws, not sure why it is there.

Is this a good movement?? Seems smooth to wind and adjust. The date clicks nicely at 12 o'clock or a couple mins after.

 

[HulkyGalore]

The rear of the case back is really interesting, check this out! Does anyone know anything about it? When I first saw it, I assumed it must be a more modern rep than had been realised previously, but this was before I actually read the text!! The model number is correctly written...

 

[KushBandit]

The rear of the case back is really interesting, check this out! Does anyone know anything about it? When I first saw it, I assumed it must be a more modern rep than had been realised previously, but this was before I actually read the text!! The model number is correctly written...

Shitinerand? Shit in her hand?! Well I'll do no such thing, thank you!

In all seriousness, the case appears to be acceptable for modding. It's a fairly accurate looking case, but without measurements I can't guarantee that it is gen spec.

 

[KushBandit]

Oh, and the movement is an Asian 2836 clone. It's the gold standard for reps. If you plan on keeping the watch, a gen 2836 would be a solid choice for an upgrade.

 

[HulkyGalore]

Shitinerand? Shit in her hand?! Well I'll do no such thing, thank you!

In all seriousness, the case appears to be acceptable for modding. It's a fairly accurate looking case, but without measurements I can't guarantee that it is gen spec.

Thanks for the comment, I have been researching the words on the caseback and learning that they were indeed made around 15-20 years ago. Quite a funny little find, it made me laugh. I do like the case though.
I need to see what to put in it, one option is a RAF LN dial and hands (small hour markers) but that would mean a 3135 would have to work and I am sure there would be complications.
I have nearly finished putting the bracelet together and the bezel back, but the clickspring design is very basic, I wonder if I can put something else in place to make it more stiff. Needs some thinking about, I am not too familiar with different types to come up with many ideas yet. Maybe I will leave it as is and just bend up those tabs more.

 

[KushBandit]

There are a few options you can do for the dial. BP 16610 dial is good for a 2836, but the date window won't be in the genuine location. 3135 won't be a direct swap due to the stem height difference. 3135 dial on a 2836 will require a date wheel overlay.

The bezel assembly isn't gen spec, but you may be able to install a gen spec retaining ring, bezel, tension ring, and click spring. You'll need a caliper to measure.

 

[HulkyGalore]

There are a few options you can do for the dial. BP 16610 dial is good for a 2836, but the date window won't be in the genuine location. 3135 won't be a direct swap due to the stem height difference. 3135 dial on a 2836 will require a date wheel overlay.

The bezel assembly isn't gen spec, but you may be able to install a gen spec retaining ring, bezel, tension ring, and click spring. You'll need a caliper to measure.

First of all, thanks for your considered replies, when I started this thread I did not think very deeply about modifications, but had an idea that it might be worth it, and wanted to check this with more experienced people.

You got me thinking about it with your responses so I have been studying threads on bezel mods, there is some very good knowledge here!!! By doing this, I will also learn more on this journey (I haven't been doing this for long, but have other hobbies modding stuff so a good basis. I do need some more tools though like a new vernier for starters... my existing one wont work despite a battery change.

So, some questions:
1. Regarding the bezel. I need to measure it but have a question. Is the 16610 design the same as the newer ones with hytrel ring etc. Or is it simply the click spring in a hole that is needed. I prefer not to have to drill more holes but could do it if needed. I include some more pictures for reference, but no measurements yet, sorry. Will do that soon.

2. The movement. I had got this watch as an unplanned sudden purchase and had in the meantime, been collecting parts for a 16610 build for which I needed a case. So, I had a RAF dial and hands, and a VR3135 ready to use. I see your comment and others from reading around that the stem height is different, but that the movement should physically fit in the space. A spacer of some sort will need making. I have not yet removed the 2836 from the Shitinerand, to see how it looks when test fitting the 3135.

Has anyone put a 3135 in a 2836/24 case and how is the stem height dealt with - is it a showstopper? It would be great to match this movement/dial and case if possible.
What about the cyclops position, I am not experienced enough to see by looking, what do you think from the picture (when I get round to test fitting the 3135 that may tell us).

I am looking forward to using this journey to learn more and get experience working on watches, interact with like minded people on here, and hopefully at the end have a really nice 16610 with a "worn" look except for the dial which will have been kept out of the elements so won't look out of place...

Thanks for your inputs - Cheers!

 

[HulkyGalore]

I tested the movement and dial in the case. All good except for stem height. I read that 2836/24 are different (I had thought/assumed they were the same) so 2836 vs 3135 should not work.
Is there a way? If there is it will take some ingenuity, such as putting some sort of dial spacer in or something between the dial and where it sits. None of it ideal or even workable, which is a shame because the position of the date is good, and the 3135 fits perfectly otherwise. Check out a mockup:

 

[wisedennis]

There are a few options you can do for the dial. BP 16610 dial is good for a 2836, but the date window won't be in the genuine location. 3135 won't be a direct swap due to the stem height difference. 3135 dial on a 2836 will require a date wheel overlay.

The bezel assembly isn't gen spec, but you may be able to install a gen spec retaining ring, bezel, tension ring, and click spring. You'll need a caliper to measure.

I have a related question to this topic; Can a dial designed for 2836 be installed on a 2824 movement? Would the “movement feet” fit right in ?

Thanks!
Dennis

 

[HulkyGalore]

After some more messing about. The stem height difference is difficult to measure but looking through the crown hole the stem hole for the 3135 sits in the outer rim of the watch stem hole. Depending on the angle it might not be quite as bad as it looks, but stressing the stem doesn't feel like the right thing to do, as enthusiastic as I am about making this fit. Shame, as the movement fits well otherwise.

So one attempt was a spacer between the dial and movement, using a 0.7mm rubber seal as an experiment. Crude, but I wanted to test the idea.

Not good, the date sits too low but more importantly the hour hand shaft is way too low. Maybe a thinner spacer might work. But I don't like this idea much.

The good news is that the date alignment issue was caused by extremely slight mis-alignment of the dial feet, which I had not wanted to move for fear of breaking them off, but decided to do it. It took very little adjustment to sort it out. Whilst this won't help with the movement fit in the watch, it was a small win.

My next plan will be to see if any thin tape or metal shim can be applied to the base of the rehaut without being noticeable.

Where is this gap best filled, do you think, rehaut to dial or dial to movement. Either way it is a compromise.

 

[wisedennis]

Back is now off, here is the movement. The seal is in great condition, bearing in mind the age of the watch. Note the small strip of brass under one of the movement mounting screws, not sure why it is there.

Is this a good movement?? Seems smooth to wind and adjust. The date clicks nicely at 12 o'clock or a couple mins after.

2836 has a quick date change just functioning as gen 3135; but it has a slightly lowered crown/stem position .

It’s a reliable movement

 

[HulkyGalore]

2836 has a quick date change just functioning as gen 3135; but it has a slightly lowered crown/stem position .

It’s a reliable movement

Thanks, I have been messing with the 3135 trying to work this out, and have learned about the stem position, see my recent post which must have been posted at the same time as your reply.

Good to know the 2836 is reliable, apparently this was bought in 2005 by a previous owner, so it has lasted a while!! Cheers!

 

[wisedennis]

@KJ2020 mate maybe able to give you some really good advice on this project

 

[HulkyGalore]

@KJ2020 mate maybe able to give you some really good advice on this project

Thanks, I have come across his posts during my searches for information. Look forward to his comments and experience!

In the meantime, I have been playing around with some different tapes and trying to find a way to make a gasket. I realised that the 2836 movement ring would be a good template.

So far, I have found that 1 layer of a 3M masking tape I have seems to work best (I don't know the exact spec but think it is around 4-5 mil or 100-130 microns or so).


I failed to cut an effective ring, so will have to think about how to do that. Meantime I used some separate pieces just to test the effect of different thicknesses. It didn't need much!

The date size still looks ok, I think. It is very hard to see the gap at the edges of the rehaut, but it would still be a compromise. Maybe I need black tape of the right thickness...

It seems to give the stem a better position, but its difficult to overcome the parallax error when aligning the camera to the right place. So I don't know for sure if it is perfect, only that it is better. I would feel comfortable assembling it this way, I think.

 

[HulkyGalore]

Update: I found a better way to use tape to space the movement slightly. I cut a thin strip of tape and applied it with some tension to the edge of the dial, applying it there rather than on the case.

This helped centralise the movement (it wont move side to side at all now) and deepen the position (lower it). The tape conforms to the edge leaving a layer of tape thickness above the dial. Care had to be taken not to go inboard too much, a few attempts were needed!

The stem now sits in a better position, although still not ideal. I will make a decision once I cut the stem, as to whether this is a workable long term solution, based on how it feels when closing it and tightening the crown.

For the moment there is another issue, a consequence of trying to make something fit that doesn't want to fit. The gap that the tabs fit into for locating the movement in the case, has been reduced, plus the 3135 is wider than the 2836. So smaller thinner tabs will be needed. I might have to make some somehow, not sure if I have the tools or raw materials for that.

 

[HulkyGalore]

I got out the old parts box from damaged DG2813's. I messed up a few keyless works early in my learning curve but kept the bits. I wondered if some parts could be used to modify into thinner mounting plates. Some bits stood out as contenders for the job:

A drill to get the hole bigger to accept the screw, and some filing. to make the shape right. I taped the part down to stop it moving when drilling.

Ready to fit, seems to be just the right size for the job. I will do the other one next.

 

[HulkyGalore]

I put the hands on the dial, these RAF hands had been in a little bag till now, they are really nice. A quick charge with a light, and a nice lume. Ready for assembly!

 

[RepPossessed]

haaaahaha i have seen a shitinerand caseback in some time, it doesnt get less funny