Well appointed review and appreciated. Based on this and the whole thread, I have ordered my first Pam.
Thanks
Thanks
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KW PAM351 released - [QC pics ALLOWED of all versions KW, ZFac, ...]
- Thread starter ernien
- Start date
Ugh, atespo, you're killing me bro. Great review and pics....
I have the kw 359 and 388. Was contemplating getting the 312 when mehmet informed me of the 351. While I tried to figure out if I should go with 312/351, now the 320 comes out! What decisions!
In terms of quality, I have yet to see any factory make watches with the precision and attention to details kw does. I'm sure this new z factory is trying, but I have yet to see anything from them that exceeds kw in these areas. As such, in my eyes, if you're considering which factory to go with it has to be kw until someone else comes out with clearly superior watches.
I have the kw 359 and 388. Was contemplating getting the 312 when mehmet informed me of the 351. While I tried to figure out if I should go with 312/351, now the 320 comes out! What decisions!
In terms of quality, I have yet to see any factory make watches with the precision and attention to details kw does. I'm sure this new z factory is trying, but I have yet to see anything from them that exceeds kw in these areas. As such, in my eyes, if you're considering which factory to go with it has to be kw until someone else comes out with clearly superior watches.
Nice A man
Did you say anything about that CP... I didnt see it but I might have missed it
Pics certainly suggest something ..but what about in the hand mate?
Did you say anything about that CP... I didnt see it but I might have missed it
Pics certainly suggest something ..but what about in the hand mate?
CP looks sunken and not flushed ... same as in the 321, 359. Maybe CP used is too low or Maybe it varies from watches. But great watch !
- 18/1/11
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CP looks very very recessed like first pics of PAM 312
I think it depends on batches
My KW PAM 312 is flush but my KW PAM 359 is recessed too
It is more evident on pics, because the tip of CP is very dome shaped and always is recessed in the contour.
Anyway, PAM 351 above showed has seemingly more recessed CP that above drawn
ALE
I think it depends on batches
My KW PAM 312 is flush but my KW PAM 359 is recessed too
It is more evident on pics, because the tip of CP is very dome shaped and always is recessed in the contour.
Anyway, PAM 351 above showed has seemingly more recessed CP that above drawn
ALE
Just curious if 359, 351 using the same clone P9000 (A7750) movement why isn't the CP flushed like in 505, 386?
Could it be due to the diff dial thickness or maybe the hour/min tubes are taller on 359, 351?
Shot of 386 CP
Could it be due to the diff dial thickness or maybe the hour/min tubes are taller on 359, 351?
Shot of 386 CP
Atespo you're my idol! I also have the kw312. Now I just ordered this. My wife is going to kill me!
where is the best place to acquire the gunny? What size is the 351? My google returned 24/22 and Peter @ Gunny straps. Please confirm and color that will match the watch face?
Thought i would post my KW351 QC pics. I have already accepted, so be nice as i do not have the skills you boys have in terms of picking out issues (new guy :wyliehelp: )
I am expecting Zf to release a revised 359 soon .. it will be interesting to see how they manage this time with the dirty dial...
In respect of the 351... My preference is the Zf makers.... accepting movement.... I find it the better OTB of the 2..but of course they are as reps so close to each other in terms of flaws and good points that it is more of a subjective decision when choosing...
FWI ...the reasons I say that are... and remember I am talking OTB here... The CG mainly the pin, (Flat with edge and sat low) the RegTm, (Deeper and sharper definition), RB, Crown (colour, finish and shape) crystal (AR and chamfer at edge as sits in bezel), dial colour (better tobbaco or Black/brown as sometimes called), hands (shape and finish) plus of course CP (height but also the size and shape as it sits flush around hands with the slight edging)
Yes there are other points but for me those are the main ones that affect my choice.
Of course they re both very good OTB reps and I would happily wear either..but IMOO my reference is the Zf.
There was also a comment about feel and quality...and to a degree I tend to agree that both a pretty comparable but I think the Zf seems to suffer more with consistency of that quality.. especially with the final colour on say the bezel and the hairlines on the grade 4 satin ...
In respect of the 351... My preference is the Zf makers.... accepting movement.... I find it the better OTB of the 2..but of course they are as reps so close to each other in terms of flaws and good points that it is more of a subjective decision when choosing...
FWI ...the reasons I say that are... and remember I am talking OTB here... The CG mainly the pin, (Flat with edge and sat low) the RegTm, (Deeper and sharper definition), RB, Crown (colour, finish and shape) crystal (AR and chamfer at edge as sits in bezel), dial colour (better tobbaco or Black/brown as sometimes called), hands (shape and finish) plus of course CP (height but also the size and shape as it sits flush around hands with the slight edging)
Yes there are other points but for me those are the main ones that affect my choice.
Of course they re both very good OTB reps and I would happily wear either..but IMOO my reference is the Zf.
There was also a comment about feel and quality...and to a degree I tend to agree that both a pretty comparable but I think the Zf seems to suffer more with consistency of that quality.. especially with the final colour on say the bezel and the hairlines on the grade 4 satin ...
- 18/1/11
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Thanks Pete for above comments
I have just received my PAM 351 from KW
Unfortunately I have not a ZFac to make a comparison.
Have you get your conclusions with both reps together ?
Regarding RB KW seems very good, REG. TM. seems very deep to be improved (maybe sharper definition could be), KW crystal seems bevelled size like gen and almost flush with bezel, dial colour seems good Black-Tobacco but I have no way to compare.
About CP I agree compeltely, KW should be improved, it is recessed and a bit rough.
Regarding hands, i cannot see ZFac, but finish and polishing of KW could be clearly improved, although only noticeable under a lens.
Regarding case and bezel finish I doubt KW's can be improved because polishing and brushing are almost perfect for a titanium rep, but I repeat I have no ZFac for comparo.
The decoration movement is very good with nice appearance and I like the "real" jewels of KW instead the painted jewels of ZFac. But again difficult to tell it without a lens.
Anyway, as you say, two very good replicas OTB. First Class reps of good level with some flaws to be "easily" improved
ALE
I have just received my PAM 351 from KW
Unfortunately I have not a ZFac to make a comparison.
Have you get your conclusions with both reps together ?
Regarding RB KW seems very good, REG. TM. seems very deep to be improved (maybe sharper definition could be), KW crystal seems bevelled size like gen and almost flush with bezel, dial colour seems good Black-Tobacco but I have no way to compare.
About CP I agree compeltely, KW should be improved, it is recessed and a bit rough.
Regarding hands, i cannot see ZFac, but finish and polishing of KW could be clearly improved, although only noticeable under a lens.
Regarding case and bezel finish I doubt KW's can be improved because polishing and brushing are almost perfect for a titanium rep, but I repeat I have no ZFac for comparo.
The decoration movement is very good with nice appearance and I like the "real" jewels of KW instead the painted jewels of ZFac. But again difficult to tell it without a lens.
Anyway, as you say, two very good replicas OTB. First Class reps of good level with some flaws to be "easily" improved
ALE
Thanks mate...
The big thing is that pics never really define anything for us...(sorry I really aint digging here I know we play sometimes but it aint honest mate ) but what I mean is that they can only ever be a guide which sometimes is spot on and sometimes bang off... it has hppened to us all and a gen in the hand alongside the rep is the only true way of defining an opinion that can be absolute but even then PAMs can vary enough to mean that what you are defining is only the gen that is in your hand not necessarily any other...
I can take a pic of a watch detail and then take another with a slightly different angle, lens, lighting etc etc and make the same detail look completely different... thats why in the same way you can never rely on say an OP catalogue as they PB everything and use what are generally PT not made.. but it goes on and on the way you can create variables and mis diagnose what you see because that aint how it looks...if you get what I mean...
I have a Zf351 here mate if you want pics..which I can email you and you can play with...
I have had the gen of these and can see the differences in both versions... but can I be sure ...no mate...its only my opinion and sometimes I have been right and sometimes I have been wrong... but I am always happy to learn and share..
PS Where is my avatar and what are those green things under my name ?
The big thing is that pics never really define anything for us...(sorry I really aint digging here I know we play sometimes but it aint honest mate
) but what I mean is that they can only ever be a guide which sometimes is spot on and sometimes bang off... it has hppened to us all and a gen in the hand alongside the rep is the only true way of defining an opinion that can be absolute but even then PAMs can vary enough to mean that what you are defining is only the gen that is in your hand not necessarily any other...I can take a pic of a watch detail and then take another with a slightly different angle, lens, lighting etc etc and make the same detail look completely different... thats why in the same way you can never rely on say an OP catalogue as they PB everything and use what are generally PT not made.. but it goes on and on the way you can create variables and mis diagnose what you see because that aint how it looks...if you get what I mean...
I have a Zf351 here mate if you want pics..which I can email you and you can play with...
I have had the gen of these and can see the differences in both versions... but can I be sure ...no mate...its only my opinion and sometimes I have been right and sometimes I have been wrong... but I am always happy to learn and share..
PS Where is my avatar and what are those green things under my name ?