- 9/7/17
- 6,737
- 3,990
- 113
-
Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!
Full review of the VSF 8500 clone movement *Pic Heavy*
- Thread starter santre22
- Start date
So here it is the last part of the service. It's hard to take a picture with both hands busy but I tried my best to get sharp pictures.
Here is the different oils and greases I use,
take a look at the coulors of the arrows it will indicate which type and where to put it.
The fomblin grease is used on caseback and crown rubber o-rings only.
Removing the inca-block shock absorber before cleaning.
Removing the inca-block shock absorber before cleaning on the other side.
The balance mounted without inca-blocks ready to clean.
All the parts in mesh baskets for Elma RM90 cleaning machine.
In for a 5 min clean in ISO propanol cleaning alcohol only and a 7 heat drying afterwards.
(this is to prevent the printed markings on bridges from disolving from stronger cleaning sulotions)
All jewels clean and shiny and ready for a drop of oil before puting them toghether.
This is very magnifyed, the cap jewel is smaller than 1mm in diametre.
Putting back the inca-blocks on both sides and secure them under the small springs.
Some really clean and nice jewels on the mainplate under strog magnification.
The underside of the barrelbridge dissasembled, oil the riveted gear first before assembly of other parts.
just ad a tiny amount in the small slot and then gently rotate the gear with a twezer 2-3 times to get the oil even.
oiling of the plate that connects to the keyless for manual winding. add oil on the edge on 3 diferent spots.
it will draw around the edge because of surfacetension.
here you can see the red tone 9104 oil also called HP1300.
add a tiny film of oil on the edge of this holder for ratchet gear to prevent it from get stuch when manual wind.
mount these gears and barrels, be carefull as I told you in my first post barrels are sligtly different, I marked mine with 1 or 2 small dots.
so they are now in the right place. then add tiny amount of oil on the pilar for balance stop (hacking second)
The 3 screws for the barrelbridge is different they need to be in the right place to not block the calender (DW on other side of movement)
Here is where the different screws should sit.
this gear in the geartrain need to be mounted because it's under the barrelbridge,
if look carefully on next picture there is a important step asseblying this.
IMPORTANT!!!
Here a side view of the gear under magnification, do not put the pivot in the jewel. if the barrels turn during tighening the barrelbridge screws
this gear is only pivoted in the mainplate and can easy snap. but if the gear is not engaged it dosn't matter if the barrels turn.
Second wheel need a tiny tiny amount of oil before going in to the tube (pivoting point)
Now its time to put both wheels in plase so they engage with the rest of the gears.
Here is a lot of oiling points, the lower autowind jewels need to be oiled here also as they can't be reached from dial side.
now over to dial side, a lot of different oil points but not all of them.
the reversing gears, tiny tiny tiny amount of oil. another option is to dip them in LubeETA V105 but I don't have it at the moment
so oil is fine as long as its the right amount. to much it will stuck to little it will wear and then stuck.
this is what causing spinning rotor error when manually winding the watch.
Top of the autowinging bridge there are fake jewels here that dont need to be oiled. the same for the deco plate that goes on top of it
there all jewels should be without oil!
deco plate assembled no oil in these jewels.
part of the keyless when adding grease points
3x grease dots for the breguet teeth.
put in the stem and secure the slot in the balance stop (hacking seconds) so it will move freely when pulling the stem (when complete asembled)
some more oil grease points
the blue 9504 grease can be seen where there is steel-steel with high friction. mostly in the keyless.
the yoke spring needs a film of oil where the gear turn see 2 pics down.
another really important grease point, theis is to get nice feeling when pull the crown in wind->date->set time setting.
yoke spring grease point, minute wheel oil point. its important the whole tube have a thinn oil film to prevent wear damage over time.
minute wheel need grease for hand setting friction. makes the hands turn but the geartrain stand still.
oil point x3 small dots for the first part of the hourwheel
GMT style top of the hour wheel with grease points. make the hours jump smooth when setting date.
date plate need oil on the 2 riveted gears, they are for date setting.
calendar plate assembled, date jumper oiled after mounting the top plate to hold down spring and jumper + DW itself.
oil then forward DW with a toothpick 5 dates then oil again. repeat for 1 rotation of the DW.
Palletfork in place.
palletfork bridge in place now the movement can be wound for the first time to add force on the geartrain.
add a tiny drop of high speed grease 9415 on the pallets on the surface that slides against escapement wheel teeth.
add little and then forward the escapement 3-4 steps and repeat untill all teeth have little oil. amount should only be visible under microscope or 15-20x magnification.
now oil ratchet on the side otherwise it will get stuck by manual winding.
the 2 screws for the balance bridge is also different.
the thinn headed screw to the right no.2
the thick headed screw to the left no.1
oiling the ballbearing, same here tiny amount on every ball and then put a toothpick in center of it and let it spinn little to distrubute the oil.
everything mounted in the case and movement fully wound and regulated and watch sitting on my wrist
its an increase of around 70 degrees in amplitude which defenatly shows that the chinese movement assemblers have some training to do before they can compete with the swiss watchmakers..
to be a chinese movement its in the higher end in terms of quality and definaely in terms of precission!
I will check post and mayby update it if I find somthing I forgot.
It's a quite time consuming movement to work with and the risk is high due to custom parts that are impossible to source if broken.
so an estimate for this type of service I would say is around 140€ when no parts is broken. However I'm not offering any type of service at the moment, I just wanted to cover this new movement and share it with you guys!
Cheers
Santre
Now I'm going to drink a fine glas of single malt whisky
Here is the different oils and greases I use,
take a look at the coulors of the arrows it will indicate which type and where to put it.
The fomblin grease is used on caseback and crown rubber o-rings only.
Removing the inca-block shock absorber before cleaning.
Removing the inca-block shock absorber before cleaning on the other side.
The balance mounted without inca-blocks ready to clean.
All the parts in mesh baskets for Elma RM90 cleaning machine.
In for a 5 min clean in ISO propanol cleaning alcohol only and a 7 heat drying afterwards.
(this is to prevent the printed markings on bridges from disolving from stronger cleaning sulotions)
All jewels clean and shiny and ready for a drop of oil before puting them toghether.
This is very magnifyed, the cap jewel is smaller than 1mm in diametre.
Putting back the inca-blocks on both sides and secure them under the small springs.
Some really clean and nice jewels on the mainplate under strog magnification.
The underside of the barrelbridge dissasembled, oil the riveted gear first before assembly of other parts.
just ad a tiny amount in the small slot and then gently rotate the gear with a twezer 2-3 times to get the oil even.
oiling of the plate that connects to the keyless for manual winding. add oil on the edge on 3 diferent spots.
it will draw around the edge because of surfacetension.
here you can see the red tone 9104 oil also called HP1300.
add a tiny film of oil on the edge of this holder for ratchet gear to prevent it from get stuch when manual wind.
mount these gears and barrels, be carefull as I told you in my first post barrels are sligtly different, I marked mine with 1 or 2 small dots.
so they are now in the right place. then add tiny amount of oil on the pilar for balance stop (hacking second)
The 3 screws for the barrelbridge is different they need to be in the right place to not block the calender (DW on other side of movement)
Here is where the different screws should sit.
this gear in the geartrain need to be mounted because it's under the barrelbridge,
if look carefully on next picture there is a important step asseblying this.
IMPORTANT!!!
Here a side view of the gear under magnification, do not put the pivot in the jewel. if the barrels turn during tighening the barrelbridge screws
this gear is only pivoted in the mainplate and can easy snap. but if the gear is not engaged it dosn't matter if the barrels turn.
Second wheel need a tiny tiny amount of oil before going in to the tube (pivoting point)
Now its time to put both wheels in plase so they engage with the rest of the gears.
Here is a lot of oiling points, the lower autowind jewels need to be oiled here also as they can't be reached from dial side.
now over to dial side, a lot of different oil points but not all of them.
the reversing gears, tiny tiny tiny amount of oil. another option is to dip them in LubeETA V105 but I don't have it at the moment
so oil is fine as long as its the right amount. to much it will stuck to little it will wear and then stuck.
this is what causing spinning rotor error when manually winding the watch.
Top of the autowinging bridge there are fake jewels here that dont need to be oiled. the same for the deco plate that goes on top of it
there all jewels should be without oil!
deco plate assembled no oil in these jewels.
part of the keyless when adding grease points
3x grease dots for the breguet teeth.
put in the stem and secure the slot in the balance stop (hacking seconds) so it will move freely when pulling the stem (when complete asembled)
some more oil grease points
the blue 9504 grease can be seen where there is steel-steel with high friction. mostly in the keyless.
the yoke spring needs a film of oil where the gear turn see 2 pics down.
another really important grease point, theis is to get nice feeling when pull the crown in wind->date->set time setting.
yoke spring grease point, minute wheel oil point. its important the whole tube have a thinn oil film to prevent wear damage over time.
minute wheel need grease for hand setting friction. makes the hands turn but the geartrain stand still.
oil point x3 small dots for the first part of the hourwheel
GMT style top of the hour wheel with grease points. make the hours jump smooth when setting date.
date plate need oil on the 2 riveted gears, they are for date setting.
calendar plate assembled, date jumper oiled after mounting the top plate to hold down spring and jumper + DW itself.
oil then forward DW with a toothpick 5 dates then oil again. repeat for 1 rotation of the DW.
Palletfork in place.
palletfork bridge in place now the movement can be wound for the first time to add force on the geartrain.
add a tiny drop of high speed grease 9415 on the pallets on the surface that slides against escapement wheel teeth.
add little and then forward the escapement 3-4 steps and repeat untill all teeth have little oil. amount should only be visible under microscope or 15-20x magnification.
now oil ratchet on the side otherwise it will get stuck by manual winding.
the 2 screws for the balance bridge is also different.
the thinn headed screw to the right no.2
the thick headed screw to the left no.1
oiling the ballbearing, same here tiny amount on every ball and then put a toothpick in center of it and let it spinn little to distrubute the oil.
everything mounted in the case and movement fully wound and regulated and watch sitting on my wrist
its an increase of around 70 degrees in amplitude which defenatly shows that the chinese movement assemblers have some training to do before they can compete with the swiss watchmakers..
to be a chinese movement its in the higher end in terms of quality and definaely in terms of precission!
I will check post and mayby update it if I find somthing I forgot.
It's a quite time consuming movement to work with and the risk is high due to custom parts that are impossible to source if broken.
so an estimate for this type of service I would say is around 140€ when no parts is broken. However I'm not offering any type of service at the moment, I just wanted to cover this new movement and share it with you guys!
Cheers
Santre
Now I'm going to drink a fine glas of single malt whisky
centrum
Active Member
- 27/7/14
- 442
- 187
- 43
Great review. You deserve a star. Your post just confirms my belief that the replicas are still shitty and haven't received much attention on the inside and the Chinese need to provide a better work.
What does a movement service mean exactly? Does it mean a though cleaning and oiling?
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
What does a movement service mean exactly? Does it mean a though cleaning and oiling?
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
Mille M
I'm Pretty Popular
- 24/7/18
- 1,254
- 2,756
- 113
Usually yes - cleaning, oiling and regulating...
In this case I think he changed some parts with new 7750 ones.
That's a replica my friend
And that's why you pay less than one tenth of the price...
(Also, that's why it is recomended to buy replicas with a 2824, 2836, 7750's, Miyotas and so on - because they are easy to fix/cheap to replace).
Find a guy like the OP, that can service a super clone movement, and your replica value skyrockets.
In this case I think he changed some parts with new 7750 ones.
That's a replica my friend
And that's why you pay less than one tenth of the price...
(Also, that's why it is recomended to buy replicas with a 2824, 2836, 7750's, Miyotas and so on - because they are easy to fix/cheap to replace).
Find a guy like the OP, that can service a super clone movement, and your replica value skyrockets.
Enthusiast88
Known Member
Amazing! Very informative, Thank you for all of your effort and once again amazing and very clean work. Well done!
Tigerdragon
Mythical Poster
- 19/10/13
- 7,292
- 1,684
- 113
I did make some additional effort in regulating and adjusting the escapement of the watch. The watch have been on the winder since yesterday evening and the amplitude have settled little like it usually does.
Adjusted in 6 positions and I'm pretty satisfied with the result.
In some positions like dial up it have insane performance! It's stable as a rock and it actually beat all my other watches gen, Frankens and other reps doesn't matter. Not sure if it's pure luck...
Look at this Timegrapher results.
Adjusted in 6 positions and I'm pretty satisfied with the result.
In some positions like dial up it have insane performance! It's stable as a rock and it actually beat all my other watches gen, Frankens and other reps doesn't matter. Not sure if it's pure luck...
Look at this Timegrapher results.
- 25/4/15
- 2,945
- 1,235
- 113
santre22 the second part of the review is a monster Thank you for all of the photos and the writting.
I am very happy with the power reserve and accurancy of mine, tho I did not timed it yet in some many position. Will have a closer look on it's accurancy now.
Impressive how the amplitude has changed after the lubrication
In the meantime, I found something interesting. VSF probably is still working on the improvements in their clone.
Here - Andrey uploaded V2 GMT PO, while the bezel insert is a downfall, we can see that balance of VSF 8605 looks nicer.
I mean, the wheel mimics the free sprung weights and the spring itself has nice colour (like silicone let's say).
Of course it is the impovement in the decoration, fingers crossed the perfomance of the clone will be unaffected.
Edit: Or wait, fake news probably.
Just double checkecked your photos and looks like you've been already working on the clone with the light-coloured balance spring, lol
Thank you for all of the photos and the writting.I am very happy with the power reserve and accurancy of mine, tho I did not timed it yet in some many position. Will have a closer look on it's accurancy now.
Impressive how the amplitude has changed after the lubrication
In the meantime, I found something interesting. VSF probably is still working on the improvements in their clone.
Here - Andrey uploaded V2 GMT PO, while the bezel insert is a downfall, we can see that balance of VSF 8605 looks nicer.
I mean, the wheel mimics the free sprung weights and the spring itself has nice colour (like silicone let's say).
Of course it is the impovement in the decoration, fingers crossed the perfomance of the clone will be unaffected.
Edit: Or wait, fake news probably.
Just double checkecked your photos and looks like you've been already working on the clone with the light-coloured balance spring, lol
Last edited:
If you need any tips and tricks feel free to send me a PM and I try my best to help out
Amazing time and effort.
My question is if I had a service like this and wore it every day how often would it need servicing?
J
My question is if I had a service like this and wore it every day how often would it need servicing?
J
If you need any tips and tricks feel free to send me a PM and I try my best to help out
Thank You. I ordered the watch and Sead will send it straight to Adrian to do the same service you did. Adrian is very well trained but I sent him a copy of your POST as the details are excellent.