Compare ARF 116710LN with the VRF 116710LN

[Nivka]

occb2

thanks for your insights as always. Are there significant differences in the cosmetic aspects of the cases? Eg lugs, CG, thickness?

My understanding so far of the pros/cons of each is as follows. Please correct me if I’m mistaken
=============
ARF $488
3186 (more unstable in genuine)
Better bracelet (finishing and correct number)
Thinner case
Better bezel action
Better bezel construction (gen spec, friction fit insert)
Better hands
Better insert (thickness of numerals)

==============
VRF $458
3185 (Part number 3185-660 Module for jumping hours). Wobbly hands when setting
Better case internally (no movement tabs)
Better dial
Better datewheel

 

[mega12]

occb2

thanks for your insights as always. Are there significant differences in the cosmetic aspects of the cases? Eg lugs, CG, thickness?

My understanding so far of the pros/cons of each is as follows. Please correct me if I’m mistaken
=============
ARF $488
3186 (more unstable in genuine)
Better bracelet (finishing and correct number)
Thinner case
Better bezel action
Better bezel construction (gen spec, friction fit insert)
Better hands
Better insert (thickness of numerals)

==============
VRF $458
3185 (Part number 3185-660 Module for jumping hours). Wobbly hands when setting
Better case internally (no movement tabs)
Better dial
Better datewheel

If you say it like this I will probably go for ARF. Lol.

Don’t forget, that gen hands might cause issues on VRF pinions.

It’s soooo difficult, I’m not sure if I should go with 3186 or 3185. I don’t care about wobbling hands and prefer reliability. But if I need to change only one part on 3186 to make it reliable (even if this part is 300€), I would definitely go for 3186. But this seems still unclear. And i prefer ARF bracelets and clasps. Also I have a gen bezel assembly and a gen dial, so I could replace on both whatever way I go for. But I’m really undecided this time what to do.... haha, but i guess that’s the hobby


Time doesn’t exist, clocks exist.

 

[DC109]

occb2

thanks for your insights as always. Are there significant differences in the cosmetic aspects of the cases? Eg lugs, CG, thickness?

My understanding so far of the pros/cons of each is as follows. Please correct me if I’m mistaken
=============
ARF $488
3186 (more unstable in genuine)
Better bracelet (finishing and correct number)
Thinner case
Better bezel action
Better bezel construction (gen spec, friction fit insert)
Better hands
Better insert (thickness of numerals)

==============
VRF $458
3185 (Part number 3185-660 Module for jumping hours). Wobbly hands when setting
Better case internally (no movement tabs)
Better dial
Better datewheel

occb2 can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the A mid-case is thinner. Just the crystal was higher because of the non-gen spec bezel assembly and the case back wasn't fully seated. So the overall measurement shows it as thicker until those issues are fixed.

As for the 3186, everyone might want to take a step back and consider the basis for all this worry about the movement. Only a few people have either of these watches yet, and there is limited information about their reliability. As far as I can tell, no one has reported one break yet. The gen 3186 is a great movement, and I don't see discussions in the R forum about it going bad all the time. There is a single linked article floating around arguing that the 3186 isn't as sturdy as the 3185, but that's it. And yet people here repeat the point until it becomes received truth. We're not talking about the CHS movements, which have proven again and again to be unreliable. The A movement may turn out bad, but we have little reason to think they'll be worse than the V movements so far.

 

[BiH855]

I went for the (imo) better looking watch, the movements are interchangeable and I think it's only a matter of time that our TDs will be able to source them in the worst case. I ordered the ARF, there is an updated spring of that fragile part, the number is 3186-657-1, going to throw that in and two reversing wheels from a spare VR3135 I have here. As it needs service anyway, thats only about $80 additional for the spring.

 

[mari115]

occb2 The gen 3186 is a great movement, and I don't see discussions in the R forum about it going bad all the time.

i agree, it's a great movement, because it's GEN.

The problem in the ETA CHS movements was caused by a little retarded metal spring, that once broken it's not possible to find, since it is a custom piece.
The 3186 also uses a thin curved piece of metal in order to control the jumping hour, whilst the 3185 seems way more solid.
If that little piece of metal in the 3186 is flimsier in the gen, what do you think it's going to be like when created and assembled with chinese metals and QC?

Ofc there isn't enough 3186 out yet, BUT, i don't trust that little piece of metal, like i don't trust the one in the ETA CHS movements.

I'd either go with the VR3185 in an ARF base, or keep the 3186 But i won't trust and i will be very wary of the hour quickset.

 

[Vvvlllooo]

i agree, it's a great movement, because it's GEN.

The problem in the ETA CHS movements was caused by a little retarded metal spring, that once broken it's not possible to find, since it is a custom piece.
The 3186 also uses a thin curved piece of metal in order to control the jumping hour, whilst the 3185 seems way more solid.
If that little piece of metal in the 3186 is flimsier in the gen, what do you think it's going to be like when created and assembled with chinese metals and QC?

Ofc there isn't enough 3186 out yet, BUT, i don't trust that little piece of metal, like i don't trust the one in the ETA CHS movements.

I'd either go with the VR3185 in an ARF base, or keep the 3186 But i won't trust and i will be very wary of the hour quickset.

agreed.

 

[wNe]

Anyone know the Rolex GEN part for the 3186 to improve the movement?

 

[mari115]

Anyone know the Rolex GEN part for the 3186 to improve the movement?

3186-657-1 i think, correct me if im wrong

 

[Cranberry2]

what do you think of this?
it looks like counterfeit parts....allegedly Swiss made

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313.TR8.TRC0.A0.H0.X3186.TRS0&_nkw=3186&_sacat=57720

 

[m5smg2]

If I were AR or VR and invested heavily in a clone movement—and new case design, retooling—I’d make efforts to to be as reliable as an ETA clone.

Otherwise what’s the point. May as well continue to use the current iffy CHS we’ve always had.

 

[Vvvlllooo]

If I were AR or VR and invested heavily in a clone movement—and new case design, retooling—I’d make efforts to to be as reliable as an ETA clone.

Otherwise what’s the point. May as well continue to use the current iffy CHS we’ve always had.

i personally doubt they care too much about the reliability of the parts. they make counterfeit watches, their business plan is to sell as much replicas as they can..to make as much money as they can..never to make one that is the best. hence why we have so many versions..many more to come

 

[m5smg2]

i personally doubt they care too much about the reliability of the parts. they make counterfeit watches, their business plan is to sell as much replicas as they can..to make as much money as they can..never to make one that is the best. hence why we have so many versions..many more to come

Agreed brother. But if these expensive new movts are time bombs that would hurt sales and their losses would be much much more. Just my wishful thinking, it’s in their best interest for these not to fail....for them, not us.

 

[Princewilliam]

Agreed brother. But if these expensive new movts are time bombs that would hurt sales and their losses would be much much more. Just my wishful thinking, it’s in their best interest for these not to fail....for them, not us.

I tend to agree, why waste so much money developing the movement and then not care if it’s stable. Hopefully these movements have as much success as the 4130


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[Vvvlllooo]

Yes I think having a clone, as advertising, is a great benefit for these guys and will wait to see how the new movements hold up. Look at noob manufacture..they have that ridiculous sa3135 still on their sub and the Chs 3186 decorated eta, to be determined. Again we are fortunate to have these next gen movements. Zzf actually listened and their new v2 3135 movement sub looks promising. Kudos to them for listening and changing quickly. But anywho I like the direction these manufacturer are going

 

[stufuse]

Just look at the 3135 clones, been out years, still not reliable out the box, service one a d swap a couple parts and they are fantastic little movements.

Don’t agree that they dont care about The parts,why bother cloning? Sling in any old shit and take people’s money


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[Vvvlllooo]

Just look at the 3135 clones, been out years, still not reliable out the box, service one a d swap a couple parts and they are fantastic little movements.

Don’t agree that they dont care about The parts,why bother cloning? Sling in any old shit and take people’s money


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I think they understand that if you don’t innovate...you’ll be left in the dust. Clone of the real deal..advertises better than decorated movement. We are getting smarter as buyers, due to these forums, and so these manufacturers have to up their game.

 

[DC109]

Just look at the 3135 clones, been out years, still not reliable out the box, service one a d swap a couple parts and they are fantastic little movements.

Don’t agree that they dont care about The parts,why bother cloning? Sling in any old shit and take people’s money


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Their goal is definitely to improve their business, but I don't think we are the market. I always assumed the movement clones and other improvements were intended to help scammers selling reps as gens. A clone 3135 won't fool an AD or major retailer, but it would fool a pawn shop. That market is probably worth much more than the small community of people who actively want increasingly gen-like reps.

 

[Vvvlllooo]

Their goal is definitely to improve their business, but I don't think we are the market. I always assumed the movement clones and other improvements were intended to help scammers selling reps as gens. A clone 3135 won't fool an AD or major retailer, but it would fool a pawn shop. That market is probably worth much more than the small community of people who actively want increasingly gen-like reps.

i agree with this..we are probably 1% of the market..

 

[tsyeo4]

Is just the rep market. They dont bother about reliability or qc. That is why franken watches are made to last with gen parts. If they sell cheap and reliablie, they also will kill their own business. They want long term business in which people dont mind paying 400 to 600 bucks each time a watch last for maybe 5 years. Watch makers and hobbist here are just making it super reliable so you dont need to dig another hole in the wallet.

 

[ap@12]

Franken vrf