16233 build / Raffles 2824 holes case questions / H4 questions

[wowcoolusername]

I have been wanting to assemble a 16233 like watch lately and have a few questions about the raffles/riyi 2824 holes case, long post hands or H4 kits, and gen crowns.

My first rep was a no frills black roman silix 16200 like rep, and shortly after that I decided to assemble a 16234 like rep based around a raffles 2836 no holes case with a clone movement, raffles flat 3 dwo, refinished black roman dial, and on a "superb" ss president bracelet (sidenote: BIG fan of the "superb" bracelet). Aside from personal grievances with the silix oyster bracelet that prompted the "superb" president on the second watch, these two have served me well for 2+ years. If anyone actually wants pictures Ill take the time to figure out how to upload them. But lately Ive been wanting a watch with a little more flair for special occasions.

This next watch Im planning to assemble will be a half step above my last assembly job: a blue stick 16233 like rep on a strap with a raffles holes case, raffles champagne dwo, gen dial, gen bezel, and gen crown. Not decided yet on clone or swiss movement. I havent started collecting any parts yet because I have too many technical questions and want to know for sure my plans will work before I start laying out scratch so Im not left with unused parts to remind me of "that one time I had a stupid idea"...

Now, onto my questions:

1) How to go about the gen crown? Many threads Ive read say Ill need to drill and tap the case for a gen tube but none Ive read have said what size tap Ill need (and if they did I overlooked it). Ive read from another site that some 5.3mm tubes will accept 5.3mm AND 6.0mm crowns??? Older 6mm crowns are different from newer 6mm crowns from watches with sapphire crystals??? Does the raffles 2824 holes case need a 5330 or a 6030 tube? For an 18k 6mm crown, will I need a 6030, 5330, or some other tube? And are all 6mm crowns created equal? Will I need to go with a 5.3mm crown? This is the part Im fretting over and confused about the most. Anyone with insight from actual experience would be much appreciated.

2) Do any members here offer tube install services? In the same vein, do any members offer case shaping services? I feel comfortable doing the labor myself but not confident that I have all the necessary info to collect all the correct parts and would rather pay for someone with the required knowledge to do it. Case shaping would be nice also but Im not too worried about it at the moment.

3) I believe I will need raised hands for the gen stick dials Im looking at. Raffles has long post hands with lume; Im looking for plain. Do any parts houses offer these in gold?

4) In case number 3 is fruitless, do any parts houses offer 2824s with H4 kits already installed? I am an assembler and not a builder or a watch smith so I dont want to even think about doing this myself. Links to specific sellers if available would be appreciated.

Many thanks for bearing with me through my drivel, my apologies for asking questions that I feel are probably easily answered, and thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Docrolex]

You can do a Datejust franken different ways. In my opinion, the one you choose is the hardest and maybe most expensive one. The tasks you require can easily be done by any experienced watchmaker in your town, the problem is to source the correct parts. I am an assembler too, and I dont hesitate to take the parts to my watchmaker to solve tricky tasks, instead of messing the parts up.
Besides other frankens, I did one lately, which was super easy and quick ( approx 30 minutes from unboxing the watch to the finished product , during office times).
i got a cheap rep here M2M, from Singapore, for around 100 USD and it arrived quickly. I found out, that it takes all gen. Parts. I changed bezel, crown, crystal was all plug and play. Then I cut the feet on a gen. dial, re glued them to fit the asian movement, done. The hands had to be slightly bent for not to touch the indices. Luckily, the date window of the gen dial aligns well with the datewheel. May get a nicer overlay one day, but i am actually working on my next franken project. I like this watch, like wearing it, as it was relatively cheap and has a great overall look. And was my first and only dial feet job till now. I am planning to drill the lug holes, reshape the case and to mount a gen. Jubilee. Have a gen. Clasp waiting in my drawer already.

 

[Logixa]

BabaNJ is the Supreme King of vintage datejust. There are not many vintage models he hasn't build over the years. Perhaps he can chime in for some experience

 

[BabaNJ]

Cant use a gen dial with the raffles holes case for 2824 as it uses a 29mm dial and gen dials are 28mm. Your choice is using a raffles 2836 no holes case for 28mm dial. It can take a gen bezel for 162XX models(thicker bezel for sapphire models not the thinner one for 160XX plexi crystal models) and also a gen 603 crown (again gen crown for 162XX models with thinner stem and not to confused with the crown for older 160XX models) will fit on tube without any modification. Logixa good to see you again on forums, Cheers_J


Here is build with raffles case, gen bezel and gen crown. Case is heavily modified by me.

 

[wowcoolusername]

Cant use a gen dial with the raffles holes case for 2824 as it uses a 29mm dial and gen dials are 28mm. Your choice is using a raffles 2836 no holes case for 28mm dial. It can take a gen bezel for 162XX models(thicker bezel for sapphire models not the thinner one for 160XX plexi crystal models) and also a gen 603 crown (again gen crown for 162XX models with thinner stem and not to confused with the crown foe older 160XX models) will fit on tube without any modification.

Here is build with raffles case, gen bezel and gen crown. Case is heavily modified by me.

Beautiful watch.
Thanks for the heads up about the raffles holes case. My heart would have been broken if I went through all the trouble of fitting a new tube just to find out the dial wouldnt work. My main reason for wanting to use it was the holes, but if need be I can always have the 2836 no holes case drilled once I find someone who can do that. I had no idea the 2836 case could use a gen 603 crown; if I had known earlier, that by itself would have been enough for me to want to use it instead. Also, thanks for the help with the correct crown.

My only real concern at this point is hands but I could easily just do lume long posts instead of plain, it wasnt too big a sticking point to begin with. Ill start ordering tonight and post an assembly thread once everything comes in.

Thanks to everyone who replied. Special thanks to BabaNJ.

 

[Docrolex]

BabaNJ, what a beautiful build , love it. Especially the tapestry dial. Is this the newer bezel? Looks narrow to me. I am a Datejust addict for almost 30 years now. 20 years ago, I was collecting gen. datejust and Date watches (fortunaltely have kept them till now), and have lots of nice gen. dials preserved till today. I started to use them for franken builds, to give them a new life and to wear end enjoy them, and to keep,them, wouldnt give them away. It would be very helpful if I could fit a raffles case with a vr 3135 to use the dials without cutting the feet. Do you know if it could be possible to modify a 2836 case to take a VR 3135? Although I have no watchmaking skills, I am dental technician with all the tools, plus have lathe, 3d printer, even can do precision casting and gold plating, so would like to give it a try.

 

[s.orologiaio]

I suggest to use a 2836, you will have more clearance for datewheel overlay. With a 2824 is very difficult to glue dwo not to touch the dial, and raffles 2836 case is not an easy tell. If you need you can have lugs holes drilled of course. I don’t understand why raffles doesn’t have 2836 -drilled holes cases.
You should use a h5 kit on your 2836 In order to have correct hands fitting. I noticed that using some stick index DJ dials, 2836 original wheels are not tall enough. Using a h5 cannon pinion + hour wheel you can use better quality hour and minute hands, like Tudor hands. Then you can disassemble the movement and use a h5 second wheel, or you can get a raffles longer post hand set and only use second hand to complete your watch. If you like raffles long post hands you can use the whole set of course, with original 2836 wheels. All raffles cases fit 295 crystal, so gen 36mm rolex bezels are all ok.
For what concerns the tube, I suggest to buy the case you need and the crown, then try them together. I’ve always been lucky with that, 6mm crowns always fitted raffles tube. They also fit some 5mm tube, I don’t know why. Consider that raffles cases are 2.35mm tapped, so if you want to use a 6030 tube or similar, twinlock or not, they all need to be re-drilled and taped at 3mm rolex thread. I have here 2 raffles cases and gen 6mm crown is fitting on both. Good luck


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[wowcoolusername]

BabaNJ, one question: 603 is the crown for 162xxs, and 600 is for 16xxs and 16xxxs, correct? Im ready to pull the trigger on a 603 crown that looks acceptable and just want to make sure Im looking at the right one.

Also, I now have a case, dwo, and handset waiting to board the slow boat. Just need to find a sapphire specific bezel (not as common as the earlier ones on the big auction site), make up my mind about movement (my two clones havent given me any trouble in the past 2+ years Ive had them, but with 18k parts and the gen dial I dont know if a $70 movement would feel appropriate), and the long hunt for a decent blue stick tt dial.

 

[Voo-doo]

wowcoolusername interesting thread! Will be definitely following you in your journey! what do you mean with case shaping? brushing the case? And why is that, because of the raffles not being accurate or for the vintage look?
Docrolex what rep was it? Quite interesting if it takes gen parts for a low price!
BabaNJ beautiful !! did you mod the pinions or did you use specific hands. Two tone looks AWSOME!

 

[MatBat]

Cant use a gen dial with the raffles holes case for 2824 as it uses a 29mm dial and gen dials are 28mm. Your choice is using a raffles 2836 no holes case for 28mm dial. It can take a gen bezel for 162XX models(thicker bezel for sapphire models not the thinner one for 160XX plexi crystal models) and also a gen 603 crown (again gen crown for 162XX models with thinner stem and not to confused with the crown for older 160XX models) will fit on tube without any modification. Logixa good to see you again on forums, Cheers_J


Here is build with raffles case, gen bezel and gen crown. Case is heavily modified by me.

I’d like to use a Raffles case and put a 25-135 acrylic glass, does it fit? I’m also planning to buy a 160x or 160xx bezel. Do they fit?

 

[BabaNJ]

I’d like to use a Raffles case and put a 25-135 acrylic glass, does it fit? I’m also planning to buy a 160x or 160xx bezel. Do they fit?

It will fit but would be period mismatch as no models datejust ever came with plexi crystal and no holes case. You will need to get case lug holes drilled to match with plexi.

 

[MatBat]

It will fit but would be period mismatch as no models datejust ever came with plexi crystal and no holes case. You will need to get case lug holes drilled to match with plexi.

Thanks for the information, I think I’ll drill the lug holes. I’d like to build a cheap 1603 build, since I have a dial that is in poor condition. Do you think that a modified 16200 Raffles case is a good option? I’ll try to reshape it, drill the holes, change the glass and buy a gen bezel (I’ll use the raffles one at first).

 

[KJ2020]

Then I cut the feet on a gen. dial, re glued them to fit the asian movement, done. And was my first and only dial feet job till now. I am planning to drill the lug holes, reshape the case and to mount a gen. Jubilee. Have a gen. Clasp waiting in my drawer already.

When you do your casework you might want to think about re-gluing your dial feet bro. Look at your 4 o'clock lume plot compared to 9 o'clock. That would would also help center your datewheel.

When I change dial feet, I sand the dial back to flush and also sand the foot bases to extremely thin. Then put the bases in the movement holes, anchor them in place and put a small blob of epoxy on them. Set the dial on the feet, center the hands posts in the dial center hole and align the 3 oclock dial notch with the stem. Put a dial protector over the dial and weight it down while curing.

After the feet are fixed in place, I notch the dial spacer so the dial sits flush to it. I wait til after the gluing is done because the intact spacer provides a solid backing for the foot base during the curing process.

Of course there are other ways to do this but the goal should always be to end up with the dial centered in the rehaut opening. I arrived at this method after having done a few in other ways and I haven't seen a need to improve on it. It takes away all need for any templates or guesswork about where the dial feet need to go.

 

[MatBat]

Cant use a gen dial with the raffles holes case for 2824 as it uses a 29mm dial and gen dials are 28mm. Your choice is using a raffles 2836 no holes case for 28mm dial. It can take a gen bezel for 162XX models(thicker bezel for sapphire models not the thinner one for 160XX plexi crystal models) and also a gen 603 crown (again gen crown for 162XX models with thinner stem and not to confused with the crown for older 160XX models) will fit on tube without any modification. Logixa good to see you again on forums, Cheers_J


Here is build with raffles case, gen bezel and gen crown. Case is heavily modified by me.

Just to understand, did you try the 2824 Raffles case? The dial was not touching the ring?

 

[wowcoolusername]

Ive got everything ordered at this point except the movement and strap (still havent decided on strap yet. Coin toss at this point between swiss and clone also). Will have better pics once it actually arrives, but what does everyone think? This watch will obviously be presented as a "well loved" example, versus a safe queen that was only worn to church. The crown and bezel Ive got ordered also look like they belong on a 30-40+ year old watch, so hopefully it all blends well together.



For strap, Ive got a 16mm 750 buckle from an 80s Cellini on order. Im wanting to put it on a blue alligator from a 50519 or similar, but thats proving to be a little difficult to find. Ive also only been seriously looking for about 4 or 5 days though so mabye they show up on occasion I dont know. Anyone know of a source for these?

Any thoughts on what strap to use for a blue 16233? Id much rather use an original rollie of some kind.

In any case, Ill eventually post a real assembly thread with plenty of in person pictures once everything shows up...

 

[Voo-doo]

When you do your casework you might want to think about re-gluing your dial feet bro. Look at your 4 o'clock lume plot compared to 9 o'clock. That would would also help center your datewheel.

When I change dial feet, I sand the dial back to flush and also sand the foot bases to extremely thin. Then put the bases in the movement holes, anchor them in place and put a small blob of epoxy on them. Set the dial on the feet, center the hands posts in the dial center hole and align the 3 oclock dial notch with the stem. Put a dial protector over the dial and weight it down while curing.

After the feet are fixed in place, I notch the dial spacer so the dial sits flush to it. I wait til after the gluing is done because the intact spacer provides a solid backing for the foot base during the curing process.

Of course there are other ways to do this but the goal should always be to end up with the dial centered in the rehaut opening. I arrived at this method after having done a few in other ways and I haven't seen a need to improve on it. It takes away all need for any templates or guesswork about where the dial feet need to go.

This method sounds so damn satisfying. I will definitely try this one in this upcoming build. In my first build i had this method in mind, but after i clipped the feet and they flew 100 and 100 miles away I just forgot about it lol Thanks for the explanation
What are those round things at 14 and 29? I can't recall from your explanation? they look like new dial feet but from your story i assume they are not

wowcoolusername Awsome!!!!! I know how you feel I am going to do this build to put my safe queen from church... to the safe xD For strap advice i would really advice a two tone steel bracelet because it completes the look. I've seen the one from raffles with a 10k plating? Maybe thats an option. Other than that you can go for a blue grained calf skin?

Did you find a gen bezel and crown?
p.s. a blue two tone datejust is just heaven GL!

 

[Docrolex]

You dont have to literally clip the dial feet. I just grabbed them tight with a plier and turned them left and right and they came off easily and left no residue on the dial. I used the original,feet again. In the above pics, those are aftemarket feet with dots. You need to sand the dial to make it thinner to fit the dots. That's a common procedure. I used the original feet instead and yoused a high tech glue which is used in dental labs. It settles within two minutes and is so durable that you can glue teeth to dentures and chew on them for fifteen years. But thats expensive stuff and only available to dental technicians or dentists.

 

[Voo-doo]

You dont have to literally clip the dial feet. I just grabbed them tight with a plier and turned them left and right and they came off easily and left no residue on the dial.

Right, check! I used this method on one of my (excuse my French..) Seikos ! And that seemed to go well, wasn't sure if that would work for a Rolex dial because the feet seem really sturdy. But will give it a go! Thanks.

I have the feeling af if I'm hijacking this thread

 

[HootschiGootschi]

Why not use an VR3135 within the raffles 36mm (2824) case?
This will work (did this two times with 2824 cases) and you can make use of the original dial feet with no change.

You should take some measurements first on your 2824 case, as they differ from batch to batch.

Some of them take gen dial (some not) & some have enough space for the bigger VR3135 , as some not.

 

[Drummania]

Why not use an VR3135 within the raffles 36mm (2824) case?
This will work (did this two times with 2824 cases) and you can make use of the original dial feet with no change.

You should take some measurements first on your 2824 case, as they differ from batch to batch.

Some of them take gen dial (some not) & some have enough space for the bigger VR3135 , as some not.

Do you need an adapter to fit a vr3135 into raffles 2824 case?


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