New JLC NSD on Angus´s website

[Q5?]

Is this it Q?

Yay!

 

[Steelfish]

Glad to be of some small help Q.

Hehe........nothing spells happiness more than "I love cats".

 

[torobravo]

I am sorry I afraid the price may not make you happy as the maker told me this watch is not easier to maker than the AP Diver.

And regarding to the AP Diver V3 pricing, the AP Diver V3 is actually reasonably priced to me considering the V2 was US$298, the maker purchase a gen watch, 1:1 construction, superlumed, AR'd crystal and cyclops, better rubber strap, correct buckle, all these upgrades only cost us US$50 more, every single upgrade/mod will cost you more than US$50 if you do it with our modders.
For the Swiss SW movement option, which is US$90 more expensive, I can swear to anything you want me to that I make ZERO profit on this upgrade, I have to pay US$90 more to the maker if I want an SW version of AP Diver V3, and the price went up during the pre-order and I got some orders that customers only paid US$80 for the upgrade so I lose money on the upgrade.
I understand t he economy is not very well at the moment, but with the RMB value keep increasing and the inflation in China, the price of the rep will not decrease. Especially after the raids and crackdowns that the makers and factories have to be more careful, they have to invest more money in the "risk management" part (give money to the authorities to avoid problems, etc).
Hope you can understand

I can confirm this true as Angus stated.

And thumbs up for this beautiful watch!

 

[OL_HB]

This is a free market,

If the price is too high people will not buy it, for a reasonable price it will go like hot buns since the quality should be superb.
I also think that pre order should include some kind of gift to distinguished it from regular sale.

I guess the one who bought the gen already sold it for 10% discount, so no meaning for replicate from gen.

I would love to see this one priced more like the pam243 and not like the ap diver.

 

[Racer686]

Pricing, overall, seems to be going up. They increase the price on new reps a small bit here and there and all of a sudden, we're paying $400 min for a hand wind Pam. We spend more on our reps than most people spend on their Fossil or like brand name watches. Huh?

Pete

 

[45acp]

That's because Fossil is crap, and our reps are actually very nice. The reason the prices are going up is because quality is going up. Stuff like the AP diver, H/N factory super pams (which are still very reasonably priced), HBB V6, and the AP ROO line are very nice watches for the money. You're talking about mechanical movements, some chonographs, sapphire crystals with high quality AR, superlume, 316F Stainless, good straps, etc. You gotta pay to play. There are still plenty of $70-$150 reps out there, there just not nearly as good as some of the new stuff coming out.

The other thing is that, yeah, it is a free market. Which means that the factories/dealers can price it however they want. I'd like to see this watch priced more like a Chanel J12, but that's not gonna happen because it costs more to make. When you consider the level of accuracy in replication, both visual and in terms of materials/construction, that you're getting for 2-5% of the retail price of the gen it's really hard to justify complaints about these prices.

 

[kingkaiser]

Okay... You will not escape this.. What models? PLEASE!!

Angus, tell them to make a proper 1:1 dssd! I Promise to jump on the preorder if the quality is normal noob level

I say.... if NSD is a hit make this next.

+1 on the second one there. Dayumn, that's hot!

 

[jamztio]

The tourby is not very likely I'd say, even if possible, the details wouldn't be 1:1. The chrono may have a chance though is it sec@6?

 

[kingkaiser]

That's because Fossil is crap, and our reps are actually very nice. The reason the prices are going up is because quality is going up. Stuff like the AP diver, H/N factory super pams (which are still very reasonably priced), HBB V6, and the AP ROO line are very nice watches for the money. You're talking about mechanical movements, some chonographs, sapphire crystals with high quality AR, superlume, 316F Stainless, good straps, etc. You gotta pay to play. There are still plenty of $70-$150 reps out there, there just not nearly as good as some of the new stuff coming out.

The other thing is that, yeah, it is a free market. Which means that the factories/dealers can price it however they want. I'd like to see this watch priced more like a Chanel J12, but that's not gonna happen because it costs more to make. When you consider the level of accuracy in replication, both visual and in terms of materials/construction, that you're getting for 2-5% of the retail price of the gen it's really hard to justify complaints about these prices.

Problem with the original argument is that the costs haven't increased in line with the end product, I think. Take the hublot v5s. I got mine shipped for $300. 'mechanical movement, chronograph, sapphire crystal with high quality AR' etc. the v6s are for 150% of that. Which input has increased by $150? Even excluding the fact that I got a good deal from the TD, there increase was still $100.
Not blaming any of our dealers, since i know their mark ups arent too high. I'm guessing the mark up is just going to mr creme de la creme (in his defense, these are bloody good watches), but not to improving quality of materials. The noob and h makers have great attention to detail, but a big part of the higher pricing has to do with our willingness to pay. Probably why Pam's are cheaper-both factories offer fairly similar products and can't price too far out of line. If they start colluding though, watch the price of the 005s skyrocket to $320.
I know that personally, I'm hitting the top end of what I can justifiably spend on reps; here's hoping that we see some more competition from the factories and some give on prices once again.

The tourby is not very likely I'd say, even if possible, the details wouldn't be 1:1. The chrono may have a chance though is it sec@6?

Stupid iPad screen - thought it was an open heart, not a tourby.

 

[jeffw69]

This is a free market,

If the price is too high people will not buy it, for a reasonable price it will go like hot buns since the quality should be superb.
I also think that pre order should include some kind of gift to distinguished it from regular sale.

I guess the one who bought the gen already sold it for 10% discount, so no meaning for replicate from gen.

I would love to see this one priced more like the pam243 and not like the ap diver.

Disagree, if price is too high, people will still buy it.

And yes, I am sure Angus has a special gift for you. icard:

 

[45acp]

Problem with the original argument is that the costs haven't increased in line with the end product, I think. Take the hublot v5s. I got mine shipped for $300. 'mechanical movement, chronograph, sapphire crystal with high quality AR' etc. the v6s are for 150% of that. Which input has increased by $150? Even excluding the fact that I got a good deal from the TD, there increase was still $100.
Not blaming any of our dealers, since i know their mark ups arent too high. I'm guessing the mark up is just going to mr creme de la creme (in his defense, these are bloody good watches), but not to improving quality of materials. The noob and h makers have great attention to detail, but a big part of the higher pricing has to do with our willingness to pay. Probably why Pam's are cheaper-both factories offer fairly similar products and can't price too far out of line. If they start colluding though, watch the price of the 005s skyrocket to $320.

That might be true, but the HBB example might not be completely representative of the whole market. And I still think the prices are justified by the quality of the watches, even if they are more expensive than they used to be. If you made watches that were worth $400 and you knew people would pay that, why would you sell them for $300? I do think you're right though that if prices get much higher sales of the high end reps will probably drop off considerably, and it will just be a matter of economics for the factories whether it makes more sense to sell less at a higher price or more at a lower price. After all, they're in it to make money.

 

[Skeletor]

V6 movement has a circular engraved bridge, silver screws, 27 jewel decal on main plate, and an upgraded rotor bearing... that explains extra cost with that model

 

[puretime]

here is the gen caseback

Thanks and yes it looks deeper but is that really deep? I dont think so, as I can see from the rep I have, it is very good

Angus, personally i can understand u! The level of reps constantly growing up and this means that every time is spent on their production, more and more funds to make it perfect and 1:1! But the price can not stay in place..right? So, personally i understand you! It is time to realize, that the cheapest may not be of high quality

Hehe thanks buddy Nice to see you here as well.

no need to worry about quality if youve ever handled the gen. I had this on in AD a couple days ago and was supprised to see how light it was overall, and how plastic-like the bracelet felt. I tink this will be very well repped judging by the pics as the gen didnt really blow me away in terms of difficulty of design and construction.

Angus; Will the 44mm NSD Dive Alarm version with two crowns be repped?

True, I initially thought the watch was made by Titanium as it is very light!

Is the NSD Alarm 2mm bigger than the NSD? If it is true then I think this will not happen. If they are of the same size and I can recommend the maker to make a faux crown to the case.

There can be a faux alarm on the rep with just the crown fixed to the case

Then if the buyers want replace it with AS5008 movement or the little more expensive Lemania 2980 or other alarm movements that's should be awesome!

The former idea is feasible but not the later one haha.

i was thinking one crown would be for time/date and the second would just spin the inner bezel indicator... with no real alarm. this way the usual A2824 movement could be used and both crowns would be active.

If the function is not the same as gen and we better just add a faux crown to the case

Angus, is the caseback engraved or laser etched? I would pay a little more to get the caseback engraved deeper! Or is it possible to take the caseback out and re-engrave via an engraver?

Everything else look sooooo sweet!!! again who the hell is gonna see the caseback if its on the wrist? :lol1:

Is the gen single or double ar?

I am not sure how it is engraved. I can ask the maker, you can always re-engrave your caseback if you want, I would love to see that review later

Angus? Are you there? Are you asleep? I need you to wake up and accomodate my increasingly demanding personal requests about incredibly minute details about this new watch.

Yeah sorry I fell asleep at about 10am and woke up at 3pm I will check your mail later

Angus is just checking in with the rest of the "Superhero Squad"!!

Haha I hope so!

Glad to be of some small help Q.

Hehe........nothing spells happiness more than "I love cats".

Nice to see you here M!

I can confirm this true as Angus stated.

And thumbs up for this beautiful watch!

Thanks T

This is a free market,

If the price is too high people will not buy it, for a reasonable price it will go like hot buns since the quality should be superb.
I also think that pre order should include some kind of gift to distinguished it from regular sale.

I guess the one who bought the gen already sold it for 10% discount, so no meaning for replicate from gen.

I would love to see this one priced more like the pam243 and not like the ap diver.

Everyone has a different definition on reasonable pricing, there must be someone feels expensive no matter how much the maker prices it.
A pre-order makes sure you will get the watch before everyone else, this is the gift I can supply to you at the moment, and placing a pre-order from me is also a gesture of support to my works that I have done with the makers to bring these super reps to the market.

If the AP Diver is expensive to you then I am sorry to disappoint you

Pricing, overall, seems to be going up. They increase the price on new reps a small bit here and there and all of a sudden, we're paying $400 min for a hand wind Pam. We spend more on our reps than most people spend on their Fossil or like brand name watches. Huh?

Pete

We would spend US$300 on a PAM111N Rep rather than a gen Fossil I think?
Those watches are not "watches" to us, they are only time-telling devices. But we have at least one mobile phone with us and we dont need that time-telling devices. We need a WATCH that we like

That's because Fossil is crap, and our reps are actually very nice. The reason the prices are going up is because quality is going up. Stuff like the AP diver, H/N factory super pams (which are still very reasonably priced), HBB V6, and the AP ROO line are very nice watches for the money. You're talking about mechanical movements, some chonographs, sapphire crystals with high quality AR, superlume, 316F Stainless, good straps, etc. You gotta pay to play. There are still plenty of $70-$150 reps out there, there just not nearly as good as some of the new stuff coming out.

The other thing is that, yeah, it is a free market. Which means that the factories/dealers can price it however they want. I'd like to see this watch priced more like a Chanel J12, but that's not gonna happen because it costs more to make. When you consider the level of accuracy in replication, both visual and in terms of materials/construction, that you're getting for 2-5% of the retail price of the gen it's really hard to justify complaints about these prices.

+1, agreed 100%

The tourby is not very likely I'd say, even if possible, the details wouldn't be 1:1. The chrono may have a chance though is it sec@6?

Sorry no, the second at 6 A7750 movement we have now does not have a datewheel on it. Try to think about the Daytona and IWC 3714 reps.

Problem with the original argument is that the costs haven't increased in line with the end product, I think. Take the hublot v5s. I got mine shipped for $300. 'mechanical movement, chronograph, sapphire crystal with high quality AR' etc. the v6s are for 150% of that. Which input has increased by $150? Even excluding the fact that I got a good deal from the TD, there increase was still $100.
Not blaming any of our dealers, since i know their mark ups arent too high. I'm guessing the mark up is just going to mr creme de la creme (in his defense, these are bloody good watches), but not to improving quality of materials. The noob and h makers have great attention to detail, but a big part of the higher pricing has to do with our willingness to pay. Probably why Pam's are cheaper-both factories offer fairly similar products and can't price too far out of line. If they start colluding though, watch the price of the 005s skyrocket to $320.
I know that personally, I'm hitting the top end of what I can justifiably spend on reps; here's hoping that we see some more competition from the factories and some give on prices once again.



Stupid iPad screen - thought it was an open heart, not a tourby.

It is a simple econimics - demand and supply thing my friend With all the HBB's available in the market before V6 came out, they look very similar to us, so the supply is huge, but not the same amount of people want to purchase them, so the price decreased.
When V6 is released, there are no similar replicas in the market and only one factory is supplying them so the supply is low, but many people want to buy that watch because it is very nice and better than the previous versions, even those who have bought V1 or V5, then still want to buy a V6, so the demand is huge, with this demand and supply relationship, the price was higher.

As with the V1-V5, the competitions make the price lower so yes you are right if another maker comes up with the new HBB A7750 movement and they will compete with the V6 maker and the price will be lower I believe, but we still have to purchase it at such price before it happens. You can wait for this to happen but what if it does not happen or it will only happen in years? Take the AP@12 ROO as an example, what makes the watch that expensive? A7750 movement with not that complicated case design? Because only the noob maker has this movement and they can sell it at however they want to, if there is not another maker makes the same movement the APROO@12 price wont drop, same theory to the HBb V6 movements. A real life example is the Apple iPhone, you can never buy an iPhone lower than its MRSP because only Apple has this phone and no other manufacturers can get this phone, Apple controls everything. Android phones are as powerful as iPhone but their prices drops all the time because there are too many manufacturers and the competition is keen.

Sorry for the long message and I just hope everyone to read and hope they can understand this.

Disagree, if price is too high, people will still buy it.

And yes, I am sure Angus has a special gift for you. icard:

LOL

That might be true, but the HBB example might not be completely representative of the whole market. And I still think the prices are justified by the quality of the watches, even if they are more expensive than they used to be. If you made watches that were worth $400 and you knew people would pay that, why would you sell them for $300? I do think you're right though that if prices get much higher sales of the high end reps will probably drop off considerably, and it will just be a matter of economics for the factories whether it makes more sense to sell less at a higher price or more at a lower price. After all, they're in it to make money.

Yes very true

V6 movement has a circular engraved bridge, silver screws, 27 jewel decal on main plate, and an upgraded rotor bearing... that explains extra cost with that model

Yes and the V6 maker has a dominance on this, so the price is higher

 

[kingkaiser]

Oy, I posted before that too - about a proper 1:1dssd! C'mon angus, make it happen

Btw angus, I hope you realize my longer post earlier was not a dig at you, but at the noob factory pricing. You've done tremendous amounts for this hobby, and as you may remember, I've ordered 2 watches from you recently. (there's another post elsewhere on the forum, where I commended you for the awesome communication throughout the process so far).

 

[45acp]

Yeah sorry I fell asleep at about 10am and woke up at 3pm I will check your mail later

lol I didn't send you anything, I was just kidding. You're too nice, Angus! Putting up with us crazy watch addicts.

 

[puretime]

Oy, I posted before that too - about a proper 1:1dssd! C'mon angus, make it happen

Btw angus, I hope you realize my longer post earlier was not a dig at you, but at the noob factory pricing. You've done tremendous amounts for this hobby, and as you may remember, I've ordered 2 watches from you recently. (there's another post elsewhere on the forum, where I commended you for the awesome communication throughout the process so far).

I will try my best with the DSSD, the makers have the gen but they still get it wrong after 7-8 productions and there must be a reason behind, I will try to communicate with the maker about this.

Sure I know it was not for me but some noobs and newbies may misunderstand the whole theme by reading your comments so I just added some explanations

lol I didn't send you anything, I was just kidding. You're too nice, Angus! Putting up with us crazy watch addicts.

Haha no problems my friend

 

[GFlansburg]

We would spend US$300 on a PAM111N Rep rather than a gen Fossil I think?
Those watches are not "watches" to us, they are only time-telling devices. But we have at least one mobile phone with us and we dont need that time-telling devices. We need a WATCH that we like

This is what its all about.

 

[aksingh]

Angus when you had dinner with Mr Creme which Rolexes did you discuss? Is he going to super rep any existing models or do we have to wait for the new no date sub as the first super rep Rolex?

 

[Skeletor]

Is the NSD Alarm 2mm bigger than the NSD? If it is true then I think this will not happen. If they are of the same size and I can recommend the maker to make a faux crown to the case.
...
If the function is not the same as gen and we better just add a faux crown to the case

Ya, the NSD Dive Alarm is +2mm (44mm) and it is also a titanium case. The Seals testing the watch actually requested a size reduction to 42mm for the non-alarm version... Seems the bigger isn't always better.

The secondary crown on the gen does operate the inner dial ring, which is what also sets the alarm time... so if a rep were ever to be prototyped the function would be visually accurate, but no alarm.

 

[puretime]

Angus when you had dinner with Mr Creme which Rolexes did you discuss? Is he going to super rep any existing models or do we have to wait for the new no date sub as the first super rep Rolex?

They will also remake the existing models.

Ya, the NSD Dive Alarm is +2mm (44mm) and it is also a titanium case. The Seals testing the watch actually requested a size reduction to 42mm for the non-alarm version... Seems the bigger isn't always better.

The secondary crown on the gen does operate the inner dial ring, which is what also sets the alarm time... so if a rep were ever to be prototyped the function would be visually accurate, but no alarm.

If the case size and material are different then the maker wont even try to make it without the gen. If he has the gen and they will make the same function besides the alarm