True rep or gen should only be purchased for yourself no other reason same as anything is still wear my gens or my reps regardless of what I’m wearing, I just meant that the younglings who can’t afford their next months Spotify do like to blow money on a flashy rep not for the watch but for the image it portrays they would also be likely to buy the same gen if they had the cash rather than put it to better use, like you say poor money management. All that said though peops can do as they please if it makes them happy. Ralph Lauren is another brand where reps probably sell as many as genuine and the genuine stuff is not all that much, I’ve always purchased RL stuff cos it fits me of the shelf well and does tend to last, I’ve tried a Kuala Lumpur night market special for a giggle and after a few wears and washes it’s lost its colour, but not was only £3, clothes are not a watch for sure.
Reps now are so much better than the old market ones where is was obvious these days though for a good quality watch whether it has a faux dial and markings or not a rep has been pretty well built and probably not too different to a Tag these days! The cost to make a Rolex vs the profit they make would be interesting to know cost as in materials, but I’m sure they would argue all the r and d etc…. Is where their margin is basses
When I say well trained eye though Im not talking just a dealer, there are plenty of people on this site that I would consider well trained and when people post QC pics for advice on even the top models say the likes of Noob in their day and now Clean Factory (im guessing re-invented Noob) we can spot the subly differences but only under close scrutiny. An RSC or someone who works on them who keeps their hand in these forums would be able to tell but they wont be all that many.
I agree on the wrist though is very hard to tell but there are some give aways such as say for a GMT pepsi not turning all red under UV light on the earlier reps, this would be an easy tell in a nightclub but not on the street. Most would never know that anyway.
I think like you say Frankens are hard to tell unless being opened and even then they would need to be torn down, if most of the exposed parts have been swapped to gen or gen spec the finish would be the same.
In reality we are all maybe a little bit too close to the topic of real vs rep (I say rep, as fake doesnt really cover it these days as even some of the low end reps are still pretty reasonable watches in their own right).
We look for the flaws far more than anyone else would.
Ive worn gens out and have still had some cocky prick ask "is it real?" I normally just say no I got it free in a kinder egg and then move on as they dont really know how to deal with it yet spend the rest of the evening checking it out!
There is one big and easy tell though and that is there will be know paperwork or traceability on a rep unless its been meticulously built using a serial number from a genuine watch and then the movement parts upgraded with gen or gen spec it would then be very hard to say its not genuine.
This would be much easier on older models such as a sub or gmt 5 digit or even easier on the DJ's, but the movement itself would have to be period correct for the model no good having a newer style movement in an older case as it would then be questioned.
I think for the outside definitely but once opened even if it were to have say bridge and rotor and other parts were replaced for gen or gen spec (gen spec is most likely going to be the case for anyhting our of the RSC world) I doubt a service house would actually bother checking if they had no reason to believe its not a genuine model. I suspect that anything that does have gen spec parts on it might be even more beliveable on and older model for sure.
The newer GMT's and Daytonas in stainless are ever so close if the bridge was changed I reckon like you say it would be very hard to tell but there will be a serial to order parts based on and that would be the kicker.
I think the the following items are the thing people focus on to check originality with their eyes
Dial - (printing is key and the crown shape if not a precious metal one) some of the reps are great until you go macro on them, but still could be a refinshed dial perhaps)
Crystal - Alignment but also clarity does it really have that sparkle that the gen has (also maybe the height although I had a sub serviced and the glass looked too low and when I questioned it they agreed and swapped it no RSC or AD but a Rolex dealer)
Does the crystal had AR in the right places, LEC on non lec models or vice versa.
Case, these are often the easiet to get right but for some reason the older 5 digits seem to have issues witht the crown guards and tube stem height (this is were they really are not replicating they are copying someone homework that copied it from someone else)
Most cases these days are really pretty good although some of the etching can be not so good and maybe the gap toloerances on lugs, this is most likely just excess polishing and is still pretty good on most.
Bracelet - Stainless models are harder and its really down to brushing, and often the clasp on the flip locks some are a little too close in comparison but as they are tight only someone who has seen many would maybe question this.
The etching on the clasp the old STEEL INOX vs STEELINOX is silly but again only a person who knows what they are looking would notice (I doubt the Ebay Authentication team would spot alot of these!)
The wrong clasp type for the bracelet can raise questions but this is rare on the new breeds
No point in trying with the TT or FullGolds or Platinums as its far to obvious but only when in the hand! The looks are really good on a lot of them but the weight is far from it.
TT's are never that good due to the sides of the gold sections, they are wrapped or plated yes and the gold is very good but the workmanship is not as the wrap or plate is applied after the bracelet is built, so there are often lazy lines or missed bits. Maybe this would go undetected to most but if a person that likes watches too a look at it they might wonder why its not solid gold centre links?
Movement This is the last thing most will inspect, as long as its not ticking every second and has a sweep motion I doubt it would be questioned ever, even if you handed to them and they undid the crown and changed the time or felt the winding resistance. They would not know that winding the movement in reverse changes the hour hand forward on the modern GMT's but got back a few years to 116710's and its forward as they are different movements only use nerds know this and probably alot of service guys wont pay much attention to it.
The ease of winding might be a cheap movement fell or it could be interpretted as and posh watch luxury feel (less effort and all that) So I doubt it would be a giveaway unless handling them all the time (an if parts have been swapp for gen to enhance this no one would know).
Most people even non watch people know that a genuine Rolex never ticks (most dont know the Oyster Quartz even exists) so as long as it sweeps it wont be that well scrutinized unless the aim is to call the person out.
It would be interesting to do a side by side with a gen of the same age and year as a rep that has had full franken treatment as far as looks go. Most of the one we see on YT are videos more for likes and subs than a real bench mark as some of the one ive seen the rep is good but not as good as some the one around or indeed the franken models some of the legends build on here.
I think the time it will be a real crisis is when the market gets flooded with frankens and dealers start getting caught out.
Im sure there are alot of peops out there with frankens or really good reps that have paid through the nose for them thinking as they had a box and papers it must be real! Ive seen a few in Vegas pawn shops that are up for sale in amongst gen one and its clear they are questionable but only as the are side by side and I doubt the shop is any the wiser they bought it cheap and sell it cheap, if it works and neve has an issue like some of the reps these days it might never be a problem until it gets sold on years later.
In KL I went into soem stores that looked like an official Rolex dealer all smartly dressed etc.... and they experience was very similar to that of an AD as far as white gloves etc... only difference was that price of the items!
I guuess if I bought a gen and it turned out to be a rep the only thing that would bother me is the money, If id been wearing it for a few years with no issue and then decided to sell it or it needed fixing and was then told its a rep. I would of been none the wiser right up until that point and still had the same enjoyment out it. There have been cases where the uneducated have called a gen a rep or fake when its not its just had the incorrect parts fitted to it over the years such as bracelet or dial or crystal.
Interesting though non the less Rolex are themselves to blame to be fair as the rep community now is stornger than ever due to the massive price hikes over the years and the shortness of supply of the sports and lower end models. The created this due to supply and demand. Rolexes have always een available to buy right up until the launch of the Ceramic models and larger case size model the main ones up until then that were the unicorns were the White Face Daytona, Explorer, and a few others due to short supply.
These days nearly all entry model or sports models are non existient and the sold ones are in safes or dealer windows and only ever offered to special customers! So they chose that route.
But there is still the fact that someone who is happy to spend $600 is unlikely to be talked into spending $10k or more and someone looking to spend $10+ on a watch is not often going to be looking to invest time in looking into reps as the market is shall we say hard work and never guaranteed, no warranty and is still illegal trade, the number of people who get ripped off or pay more for a low grade model where they simply dont know enough is all too often. There are alot of vaporware sites selling AAA Grade Swiss made models that will never appear, load on Facebook and there is no comeback from you credit card as its illegal anyway. This site is a great place for all us like minded peops but at the same time there is the flat earthers! We are a small section of the world and we actively enjoy learning about it all and appreciate what goes into it all btu others not so much they just wanna buy a watch either for themselves or to impress their mates or keep up with the social crowd.
The rep world offers a lot for sure but its still a big risk to many, the other donwside that the gen market doenst suffer from is parts.
Think back to say 2010 reps were still being made and some pretty good but if it were to fail chances are getting parts for the movement would be hardwork, if its a modded one, and then if trying to change it for a newer movement witl it fit the dial, hands or case etc... the models out now will are much better but how long will a vr 3186 be available into the future as the newer models all take DD3285 say (not being specific here) if the facotories making the reps keep churning out the newer models and the demand for them is harder they will simply stop making the older movements and parts, granted the models that do have interchangeability with gne parts this shouldnt be and issue, but at the same time why do they not choose to replicat the correct bridges on the rep movements in the first place.
All good though, I wonder how many on this site have ever been caught out with a rep masquerading as a gen as I reckon you are right even with the older not so good models that are not the super reps have gone under the radar many times
