Wow! My bad, it looked like such garbage I assumed it was fake. I guess I'm a rebel now for posting a real watch in an ultimate fake war
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Worst fakes
- Thread starter Danhid12
- Start date
Wow! My bad, it looked like such garbage I assumed it was fake. I guess I'm a rebel now for posting a real watch in an ultimate fake war
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- 24/12/11
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Wow! My bad, it looked like such garbage I assumed it was fake. I guess I'm a rebel now for posting a real watch in an ultimate fake war
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you know id buy a rep of that !!!!
Haha! I would like to wear that in public at less once, the super obnoxious 3cm tall crystal would defiantly be an eye catcher
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- 23/12/11
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Wrong again. It's an homage. It doesn't contain the IP name of a brand. You're a law student (and race car driver). Pay attention in class and learn young Noob.
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- 24/12/11
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I know! At first when you mentioned they make a homage to it I thought I could get one for my Father then what I saw it and I saw the price, I might pass on that. The price though is well justified, 6000m water resistance is not cheap
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I am sorry Sir, I can't agree with you by any means. Just because it doesn't harm the intellectual property of a brand (in this case AP), it doesn't mean that it is a homage or even legit. And to add, the design "done by Longbo" is 1:1 the same as an AP, which violates copyrights and so on.
Homages "pay respect" to their original models while respecting patents and so on. There are a lot homages out there, for example the Invicta Speedway 9211 (Homage of Daytona) or a Sinn 903st (Breitling Navitimer). Guess what? Not only do they cost a fair amount of money, but they also don't have printed "Swiss Made" on their dial.
But do you know why? Printing those two words instantly makes it a replica and illegal by any means if the requirements are not met - and I am telling this to you as a law student. There is no possibility for this "Longbo" to meet the requirements and legal justification to print "Swiss Made" on their dial. This "Lonbgo" is nothing else than a cheap ass AP-replica. Period.
So before you call out to anyone and devalue them as noobs, you should get your facts together and maybe even learn the proper definitions of "homages" and "replicas", before you try to argue with a law student in any law-specific subject. And before I have to do all the work for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made#The_use_of_the_name_Swiss_on_watches
After reading this, I'd like you to tell me again, that the Longbo is allowed to print Swiss Made on their dial so that it could be justified as a homage, and not characterized as a replica.
- 23/12/11
- 18,008
- 10,501
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You're probably right. I don't know much about the law. Thanks for the lesson.I am sorry Sir, I can't agree with you by any means. Just because it doesn't harm the intellectual property of a brand (in this case AP), it doesn't mean that it is a homage or even legit. And to add, the design "done by Longbo" is 1:1 the same as an AP, which violates copyrights and so on.
Homages "pay respect" to their original models while respecting patents and so on. There are a lot homages out there, for example the Invicta Speedway 9211 (Homage of Daytona) or a Sinn 903st (Breitling Navitimer). Guess what? Not only do they cost a fair amount of money, but they also don't have printed "Swiss Made" on their dial.
But do you know why? Printing those two words instantly makes it a replica and illegal by any means if the requirements are not met - and I am telling this to you as a law student. There is no possibility for this "Longbo" to meet the requirements and legal justification to print "Swiss Made" on their dial. This "Lonbgo" is nothing else than a cheap ass AP-replica. Period.
So before you call out to anyone and devalue them as noobs, you should get your facts together and maybe even learn the proper definitions of "homages" and "replicas", before you try to argue with a law student in any law-specific subject. And before I have to do all the work for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made#The_use_of_the_name_Swiss_on_watches
After reading this, I'd like you to tell me again, that the Longbo is allowed to print Swiss Made on their dial so that it could be justified as a homage, and not characterized as a replica.
It sure seemed that way on our last case...
Great restraint, @Tucker....
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- 23/12/11
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Hey, law school at age 19 is impressive. I just don't remember studying Wikipedia. I'm going to start citing it.
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- 9/7/12
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I am sorry Sir, I can't agree with you by any means. Just because it doesn't harm the intellectual property of a brand (in this case AP), it doesn't mean that it is a homage or even legit. And to add, the design "done by Longbo" is 1:1 the same as an AP, which violates copyrights and so on.
Homages "pay respect" to their original models while respecting patents and so on. There are a lot homages out there, for example the Invicta Speedway 9211 (Homage of Daytona) or a Sinn 903st (Breitling Navitimer). Guess what? Not only do they cost a fair amount of money, but they also don't have printed "Swiss Made" on their dial.
But do you know why? Printing those two words instantly makes it a replica and illegal by any means if the requirements are not met - and I am telling this to you as a law student. There is no possibility for this "Longbo" to meet the requirements and legal justification to print "Swiss Made" on their dial. This "Lonbgo" is nothing else than a cheap ass AP-replica. Period.
So before you call out to anyone and devalue them as noobs, you should get your facts together and maybe even learn the proper definitions of "homages" and "replicas", before you try to argue with a law student in any law-specific subject. And before I have to do all the work for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made#The_use_of_the_name_Swiss_on_watches
After reading this, I'd like you to tell me again, that the Longbo is allowed to print Swiss Made on their dial so that it could be justified as a homage, and not characterized as a replica.
You seem to be awfully confused on many of the technical terms and definitions regarding counterfeit items, copyright infringement and the law.
Let me help you out:
Replica is not a term that is recognised by any body other than the types of people who hang out on these forums - in legal terms it means nothing.
Homage watch manufacturers rarely get involved in the minutiae of a design to the extent that 'Patents' would be an issue.
"and to add, the design "done by Longbo" is 1:1 the same as an AP, which violates copyrights and so on." Absolute nonsense - designs are extremely difficult to copyright, thus it is legal for manufacturers to freely use designs from their competitors - how many manufacturers have copied the Rolex Submariner ? - dozens and dozens. However, all brands have trademarked their name and symbols - which is something completely different.
Using 'Swiss Made' on a watch that does not meet the requirements for such a designation comes under 'false indications and or markings in violation of any law, or official agreement' - i.e: it's a fraudulent claim.
Having the words 'Swiss Made' when it does not meet the requirements set out by the Swiss is illegal under Swiss law, but has absolutely nothing to do with 'Homage'/'Replica' or any other labels - a 'Homage Watch' could well have the words 'Swiss Made' printed on it's dial if indeed it meets the requirements for such a designation as set out under Swiss law.
Longbo watches are apparently made in China, therefore using the designation 'Swiss Made' is a Trademark Violation - but it doesn't make it a rep watch, or even a homage.
Oh, and Wikipedia is not a good place to learn law . . .
Actually,
Firstly, who said that I am learning with Wikipedia? Sure, I could have linked all the laws and the statement of the fédération de l'horlogerie suisse (FHS, Federation of the Swiss watch industry). But why so, when the exact points are written down in Wikipedia on a short space without any complicated law-terms? Well, at least you took your time to prove your point, but Tucker seems to be fallen into a pit of ignorance, which is not worth my time. So, let's head over to a few points of yours:
Actually, Replica is a term being used. I don't know about the EU legislation and leading cases, but here in Switzerland, the trademark lawyers use "Replica" as a term. But like in most other subjects, the Swiss law is very special. I also don't know how it is with designs in the EU, but in Switzerland it is possible to "copyright" your Design if it is unique and existential to your product, which can be said about APs or Rolex etc. This is one of the main reasons, why importing watches directly into Switzerland is really difficult, because the custom duty is also called upon scanning for copied designs (which implies a Replica) by the FHS. And just putting your "brand name" on the dial does not mean that you haven't copied a protected design. This is one of the arguments why a Sinn 903st can be seen as a homage to Breitling's Navitimer, since the design is not just blatantly copied, but altered enough to be a "new watch".
I also never said that homages don't have "Swiss Made" printed on their dial. Take the Steinhart Ocean 1 - one example to your "Submariner copy". It seems like that Steinhart meets the minimum requirements and is allowed to print "Swiss Made" on the dial. But they also have altered the design enough to not violate any protected designs from Rolex.
And as you said, all this doesn't make Longbo a Homage, like Tucker insists. But it does make it a Replica, since APs protected design is being copied 1:1, at least by Swiss law. But as far as I know, these design copyrights are even internationally accepted.
Firstly, who said that I am learning with Wikipedia? Sure, I could have linked all the laws and the statement of the fédération de l'horlogerie suisse (FHS, Federation of the Swiss watch industry). But why so, when the exact points are written down in Wikipedia on a short space without any complicated law-terms? Well, at least you took your time to prove your point, but Tucker seems to be fallen into a pit of ignorance, which is not worth my time. So, let's head over to a few points of yours:
Actually, Replica is a term being used. I don't know about the EU legislation and leading cases, but here in Switzerland, the trademark lawyers use "Replica" as a term. But like in most other subjects, the Swiss law is very special. I also don't know how it is with designs in the EU, but in Switzerland it is possible to "copyright" your Design if it is unique and existential to your product, which can be said about APs or Rolex etc. This is one of the main reasons, why importing watches directly into Switzerland is really difficult, because the custom duty is also called upon scanning for copied designs (which implies a Replica) by the FHS. And just putting your "brand name" on the dial does not mean that you haven't copied a protected design. This is one of the arguments why a Sinn 903st can be seen as a homage to Breitling's Navitimer, since the design is not just blatantly copied, but altered enough to be a "new watch".
I also never said that homages don't have "Swiss Made" printed on their dial. Take the Steinhart Ocean 1 - one example to your "Submariner copy". It seems like that Steinhart meets the minimum requirements and is allowed to print "Swiss Made" on the dial. But they also have altered the design enough to not violate any protected designs from Rolex.
And as you said, all this doesn't make Longbo a Homage, like Tucker insists. But it does make it a Replica, since APs protected design is being copied 1:1, at least by Swiss law. But as far as I know, these design copyrights are even internationally accepted.
There is no "patent" on the design of the Subs. As long as you don't print the Rolex logo and brand name on the dial you're good to go. Swiss made on Steinharts is simply true (60% mfg in Swiss Jura).
I don't know if Rolex per se has a copyright on their design. But logically, they must have, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to do something against replicas. And it's pretty easy to get a copyright on a design in Switzerland, there are several institutes for that.
You (or i.c. Longbo) can't just copy a design and think that this legal safe zone if you don't put the brand name and logo on it. Google the case of Apple against our railroad company SBB; Apple "copied" their famous watches which can be seen at every train station - Their patent on that design was established in 1942 I believe, and expired a long time ago. But SBB and Mondaine registered a so called "3 dimensional brand and design copyright", which is one of many copyrights in Switzerland. So, a copyright on brands can expire, but not this "3 dimensional brand and design copyright". In the end, Apple had to pay about 16-20 million Swiss Francs, the final sum was never communicated. And it would be unbelievably stupid for Rolex, AP, JLC, VC and all the other brands, to not register such a "3 dimensional brand and design copyright" on their watches.