ZF 15400 - First pictures

[fire007]

This is a forum, and your opinion is as good as mine. The forum is in fact made up of opinions and facts, in that order.
I appreciate the feedback and am looking forward to your review.
Dealers however should refrain from such comments as they will never be viewed as objective even if they sell both brands. The profit/agreement/benefits/perks from one factory can be more attractive than the offers from the other. As such, dealers should focus on providing facts and figures rather than actively engaging in opinion exchange here.

I would add to this that nowadays they also use « fake » accounts only to attack competition or over exaggerate the gen likeness of their piece...

For , I, now find it hard to navigate between genuine members comments and marketeers tactics..

my 2 cts

 

[legend]

It reminds me of smart phones coming out with newer versions. The clunky first edition was revolutionary when it first comes out but eventually gets replaced. Some people still have the old versions and sometimes improvements actually make things more complicated. But this analogy isn't perfect because in these watches everything is analog to begin with. Anyway, thanks for sticking up to JF owners

A “replica” needs the gen to exist in order to replicate it. So there is a definitive benchmark for how accurate a specific rep is. I agree that some factories produce better parts than others but NONE of them produces a perfect replica. Eventually it boils down to owner preference on the consumer end and on the factory/dealer end it’s about profit and incentives. In the gen world there’s only one type of a specific model but in the rep world you get various factories producing the same model and we get versions 1 to N. This hobby should be a casual one geared toward pleasing the owners. Guys should stop asking which color is closer to gen or which version is better. So what if they buy the color closest to gen? It’s still going to be leagues away from being the gen. In terms of value, the entire rep watch is equivalent to 3 or 4 bracelet links and screws of the gen, accurate color or otherwise.
So be it JF or ZF or whatever, all are reps which fall into the same category in real life. Guys who cannot call out a ZF as a rep will likely not be able to call a JF rep out too. In the same way, guys who can identify either rep will be able to identify the other.
Some guys here like to ridicule DHGate reps. But zoom out a little more and you will see that other than the version which comes from AP Le Brassus, all of the other factories produce non-gen replicas. So if this is a replica forum then all reps should be tolerated. Assessments and preferences are often subjective. Before rubbishing a factory production, it is important to remember that the gen is the gen and everything else isn’t.


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[aristole]

A “replica” needs the gen to exist in order to replicate it. So there is a definitive benchmark for how accurate a specific rep is. I agree that some factories produce better parts than others but NONE of them produces a perfect replica. Eventually it boils down to owner preference on the consumer end and on the factory/dealer end it’s about profit and incentives. In the gen world there’s only one type of a specific model but in the rep world you get various factories producing the same model and we get versions 1 to N. This hobby should be a casual one geared toward pleasing the owners. Guys should stop asking which color is closer to gen or which version is better. So what if they buy the color closest to gen? It’s still going to be leagues away from being the gen. In terms of value, the entire rep watch is equivalent to 3 or 4 bracelet links and screws of the gen, accurate color or otherwise.
So be it JF or ZF or whatever, all are reps which fall into the same category in real life. Guys who cannot call out a ZF as a rep will likely not be able to call a JF rep out too. In the same way, guys who can identify either rep will be able to identify the other.
Some guys here like to ridicule DHGate reps. But zoom out a little more and you will see that other than the version which comes from AP Le Brassus, all of the other factories produce non-gen replicas. So if this is a replica forum then all reps should be tolerated. Assessments and preferences are often subjective. Before rubbishing a factory production, it is important to remember that the gen is the gen and everything else isn’t.


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Wise words Legend but I bet that most people who ask “which one is the closest to gen” simply do that because they usually pretend their watch is gen with friends. I won’t see any other explanation for asking it, other than this. You are right, no rep is perfect, but it is probably also true that 90% of people cannot spot a rep, JF or ZF or whatever it is.

 

[W47chl0v3r]

This hobby should be a casual one geared toward pleasing the owners. Guys should stop asking which color is closer to gen or which version is better. So what if they buy the color closest to gen? It’s still going to be leagues away from being the gen. In terms of value, the entire rep watch is equivalent to 3 or 4 bracelet links and screws of the gen, accurate color or otherwise.
So be it JF or ZF or whatever, all are reps which fall into the same category in real life. Guys who cannot call out a ZF as a rep will likely not be able to call a JF rep out too. In the same way, guys who can identify either rep will be able to identify the other.

I completely agree. Owner preference is above all else. To my point regarding "newer versions", some people are happy with v1 of a watch. But as more and more come out they are tempted to get a "better" (read as newer) version not because they don't prefer the watch they have, but because they see the differences and are fooled to believing a better replica is out there. In the end they are still trading in one replica for another. Like you said, those who can be fooled will be, and those that can't still wont be. Personally, I like the middle ground of gen parts in replicas because you get the both worlds of gen and cheap costs.

 

[yfuji]

questions guys.

I got the Gen of this watch which is mostly in a bank vault . If I go to a Party I dont want to walk around with the Gen so I am looking to buy good rep. could anybody point me in a direction which would be the best. I read through different threads, but still not sure which one is closest to gen. as I own the Gen, the dial and blue color of the dial being great quality would be good, so I dont have differnt blue dials when I switch betwen the 2. I love this watch, I think its better than the 5711

 

[maison888]

^Lol I thought you were really going somewhere with that intro.

 

[yfuji]

^Lol I thought you were really going somewhere with that intro.

just realized i posted in the wrong one. 15202 I need...

 

[legend]

Wise words Legend but I bet that most people who ask “which one is the closest to gen” simply do that because they usually pretend their watch is gen with friends. I won’t see any other explanation for asking it, other than this. You are right, no rep is perfect, but it is probably also true that 90% of people cannot spot a rep, JF or ZF or whatever it is.

Or they like to maintain the illusion that it is gen to themselves. Which is nothing wrong IMHO. How a man views/treats his watch is his own business.
The reverse problem can also be true, where I wear my gen and someone asks if its the latest Z, JF or whatever lol.
My point is that having the "closest to gen" dial color won't make the watch gen in any way and even if a gen dial is installed, the watch is still not gen. In real life, JF and ZF both will work equally well and under scrutiny, both will fail the authentication test, like a DHgate rep but with less visual flaws maybe.
It is good to just enjoy the hobby to "owner preference" instead of preferring one color but buying another just because it is ostensibly more "gen like".

 

[legend]

I completely agree. Owner preference is above all else. To my point regarding "newer versions", some people are happy with v1 of a watch. But as more and more come out they are tempted to get a "better" (read as newer) version not because they don't prefer the watch they have, but because they see the differences and are fooled to believing a better replica is out there. In the end they are still trading in one replica for another. Like you said, those who can be fooled will be, and those that can't still wont be. Personally, I like the middle ground of gen parts in replicas because you get the both worlds of gen and cheap costs.

Yes, often a franken, as you implied, will satisfy many owners in terms of visual accuracy of the watch. Personally I will have gone with frankens for most of the watches I own if parts are available, had I not been a watch caliber kind of guy. I dislike the miyota 9015 movement and think that most of the parts used in it do work, but are cheaply built and not of good quality. But I can understand that to be profitable selling a $500 watch, this is a necessity.
Version N may not be meaningful distinguishable from V1 of the same rep in real life, but like you mentioned, guys buy it for the novelty of feel. To me, there are only two categories of watches: gen and rep and there is absolutely nothing wrong choosing to own/wear either for whatever reasons conceivable. Modding or frankening reps is still exciting indulgence, but I am against reps/modded pieces/frankens being misrepresented for the purpose of owner benefit or gain. A JF 15400 with a gen dial is often called a "franken" here followed by tons of accolades attached to it, but to me it is best described as a "JF 15400 with gen dial". Just flip such a watch over and you see a $50 Miyota powering them most of the time. Kind of brings one back to reality what the watch really is. If a watch is truly as wonderful as seller is claiming, it would be commanding a much higher price, or it would have been retained by the owner. You cannot get a meaningful quality 15400 for example for $2000-3000. Yes this is subjective but I am giving my 2 cents as a gen owner, whereas most of the franken sellers are basing their descriptions and superlatives comparing their modded/franken watches to the basic reps.

 

[Jasonp]

I purchased my JF v5 a week or so before the ZF was released,,,,,my dial is very similar to the gen from a few years back and the watch has been great,,probably needs a service but a two minute wind once a week and it keeps great time even forgot to take it off when bathing and it didn’t miss a beat,,,,,,I believe AP offers no water resistance to the Gen iirc,,,,so that would have been a restless night if it was a gen lol,,,
I just enjoy the watch and it certainly does not garner the attention of gen Rolex I have,,,,,,happy to tell peeps that it’s a “ fugazi” if asked,,,,,,,Cellini Date next,,,,,,

 

[DoctorDark]

A “replica” needs the gen to exist in order to replicate it. So there is a definitive benchmark for how accurate a specific rep is. I agree that some factories produce better parts than others but NONE of them produces a perfect replica. Eventually it boils down to owner preference on the consumer end and on the factory/dealer end it’s about profit and incentives. In the gen world there’s only one type of a specific model but in the rep world you get various factories producing the same model and we get versions 1 to N. This hobby should be a casual one geared toward pleasing the owners. Guys should stop asking which color is closer to gen or which version is better. So what if they buy the color closest to gen? It’s still going to be leagues away from being the gen. In terms of value, the entire rep watch is equivalent to 3 or 4 bracelet links and screws of the gen, accurate color or otherwise.
So be it JF or ZF or whatever, all are reps which fall into the same category in real life. Guys who cannot call out a ZF as a rep will likely not be able to call a JF rep out too. In the same way, guys who can identify either rep will be able to identify the other.
Some guys here like to ridicule DHGate reps. But zoom out a little more and you will see that other than the version which comes from AP Le Brassus, all of the other factories produce non-gen replicas. So if this is a replica forum then all reps should be tolerated. Assessments and preferences are often subjective. Before rubbishing a factory production, it is important to remember that the gen is the gen and everything else isn’t.


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That's the funny thing about this whole situation. If the factories WERE able to produce a perfect replica they will have to accrue hand-finishing costs that pretty much make the replica so damn expensive that people might as well buy the real thing. A gen is a gen. A rep is a rep. Personally the big thing for me is that the push to get closer to the gen not as the end goal but just the direction. Dial, hands, bezel construction etc. Its something to just aim for in the same way a compass tells me to go North. Its fun and a nice thing to discuss with people, not something to overly obsess over. Meanwhile I get to also do things that I would NEVER do with the real thing.

Example: With the 15202 I still need to mod it to make the bracelet more comfortable and flexible. I won't be able to comfortably wear it otherwise. This means removing material from the bracelet and repolishing it, something most people would never do besides truly comfortable collectors. I CAN do that with a rep and be able to wear it comfortably.

Also I would never wear a real 15202 to anywhere I consider to be even slightly bit unsafe. With a rep its possible to care a lot less.

People need to embrace the rep game for its advantages rather than try to see the idea of recreating a gen for the purpose of misdirection. Just my 2 cents.

 

[CaptainSplash]

People need to embrace the rep game for its advantages rather than try to see the idea of recreating a gen for the purpose of misdirection. Just my 2 cents.

Well said. Reporting on the closeness of this doodad or that trinket from factory xyz? Useful for prospective punters and interested collectors alike. Endlessly debating the genuineness of rep ABC (oxymoron, if there's ever been one) and how this shade and that movement is not real? Uhm...Wel yeah, it's a rep...

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[replikmaster]

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Enviado de meu SM-N975F usando o Tapatalk

 

[jasonbaylee]

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[/IMG]

Awesome lum! Modded?

 

[ssouthall6]

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Enviado de meu SM-N975F usando o Tapatalk

I'm no AP expert but that is sensational


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[Swiss_goupil]

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Enviado de meu SM-N975F usando o Tapatalk

Beautiful.

To the above discussion, I would like to add that in some parts in Europe, more specifically France (Paris and south of France) and London, it has become seriously dangerous to wear any well known gen. Nearly every single day people get attacked, robbed and even stabbed for their valuable wristwatch. Gangs have learned to recognise the easy resealable items (sorry AP, Rolex Patek.... and even Breguet). I live in London, and today sadly I don’t fancy wearing my gens anymore if I have to commute or go into a social event. How sad is this? They sit in my safe.

Now I have seriously started enjoying the rep world and I happily wear a rep instead. I don’t care if people can spot it is a rep, what I care about is I am enjoying myself wearing something I love and looks good. I will also happily give it to any attackers without resisting and therefore keeping me and my family safe. Bonus, I will not have to deal with all the collateral damages (insurance, police and I can get a new one without any fuss... )


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[Dissemination]

Beautiful.

To the above discussion, I would like to add that in some parts in Europe, more specifically France (Paris and south of France) and London, it has become seriously dangerous to wear any well known gen. Nearly every single day people get attacked, robbed and even stabbed for their valuable wristwatch. Gangs have learned to recognise the easy resealable items (sorry AP, Rolex Patek.... and even Breguet). I live in London, and today sadly I don’t fancy wearing my gens anymore if I have to commute or go into a social event. How sad is this? They sit in my safe.

Now I have seriously started enjoying the rep world and I happily wear a rep instead. I don’t care if people can spot it is a rep, what I care about is I am enjoying myself wearing something I love and looks good. I will also happily give it to any attackers without resisting and therefore keeping me and my family safe. Bonus, I will not have to deal with all the collateral damages (insurance, police and I can get a new one without any fuss... )


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That's a bummer. What I've realized is that almost no one gives a shit about the watch you're wearing. I would be sad to know the only people that notice are thieves.

On another note, I get the sneaking suspicion that people that own high-end gens tend to enjoy this rep hobby more. Maybe because they can enjoy it for what it is instead of trying to make it something it's not?

It's late where I'm at and I'm just musing right now though :slap:

 

[Jasonp]

Beautiful.

To the above discussion, I would like to add that in some parts in Europe, more specifically France (Paris and south of France) and London, it has become seriously dangerous to wear any well known gen. Nearly every single day people get attacked, robbed and even stabbed for their valuable wristwatch. Gangs have learned to recognise the easy resealable items (sorry AP, Rolex Patek.... and even Breguet). I live in London, and today sadly I don’t fancy wearing my gens anymore if I have to commute or go into a social event. How sad is this? They sit in my safe.

Now I have seriously started enjoying the rep world and I happily wear a rep instead. I don’t care if people can spot it is a rep, what I care about is I am enjoying myself wearing something I love and looks good. I will also happily give it to any attackers without resisting and therefore keeping me and my family safe. Bonus, I will not have to deal with all the collateral damages (insurance, police and I can get a new one without any fuss... )


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I agree,,,,wearing a “ known” piece is now a liability in London,,,,,too many watch thefts to mention and in Greater London also,,,,,,one of the reasons that brought me here,,,,,not forgetting Amsterdam and Barcelona and the kid who had a limited edition F1 ?? Richard Mille worth just under a 3 quarter of a million euros iirc taken off his wrist in Ibiza last summer,,

 

[the massakretor]

Guys is the white dial easily sourced by TDs?

I don't like PureTime, but I don't see the white on many TD websites

 

[fire007]

I sadly can confirm the London situation... this city is very sadly losing all his appeal... Organized crime seems to run freely these days there...