Tigerdragon
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- 19/10/13
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XF New AP Royal Oak 15202 Releasing Soon!
- Thread starter jtimewatch
- Start date
- 18/7/17
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Very interesting watch, like everyone said lets wait for real life pictures...
I hope this motivates ZF to get their 15202 attempt faster, and that drives JF to improve theirs, so that we can have more to choose from, I will wait.
I hope this motivates ZF to get their 15202 attempt faster, and that drives JF to improve theirs, so that we can have more to choose from, I will wait.
- 11/7/16
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First, thank you jtimewatch for the great pics and review.
Having owned the DC quartz and the JF 15202, I am very excited to see another good release for the 15202! I may buy this, but there are still things to desire from this model.
Good:
1. Thickness
2. Rotor
3. Date
4. Center pinion
5. Date wheel is good
6. Print looks good
7. Bracelet brushing looks good
Bad:
1. No decorated movement, at all. I would have liked an engraving directly on the movement like PF did on the Nautilus.
2. Dial color is poor, and is not modeled after the newer style (top bumps are bluer than the backdrop)
3. Tapisserie is VERY poor. It has 6-7 'bumps' per square. JF has 8 'bumps' and gen has 8 'bumps'. Despite the printing flaws, I think JF is better.
4. Still not thin enough (but it's acceptable).
5. QC issues - the "AP" logo is crooked
6. Out for the judge but I'm hesitant - the JF has the thinner bracelet that the 15202 gen has, and it's wonderful compared to the DC. I wonder if the XF will have the thinner bracelet style.
Dial tapisserie comparison:
JF Dial close-up:
DC Quartz and JF at wrist length (left to right):
Verdict:
Though it's not ideal (nor universally perferred), my ideal build is the XF with JF dial, and if the bracelet is thick, use the JF bracelet.
Having owned the DC quartz and the JF 15202, I am very excited to see another good release for the 15202! I may buy this, but there are still things to desire from this model.
Good:
1. Thickness
2. Rotor
3. Date
4. Center pinion
5. Date wheel is good
6. Print looks good
7. Bracelet brushing looks good
Bad:
1. No decorated movement, at all. I would have liked an engraving directly on the movement like PF did on the Nautilus.
2. Dial color is poor, and is not modeled after the newer style (top bumps are bluer than the backdrop)
3. Tapisserie is VERY poor. It has 6-7 'bumps' per square. JF has 8 'bumps' and gen has 8 'bumps'. Despite the printing flaws, I think JF is better.
4. Still not thin enough (but it's acceptable).
5. QC issues - the "AP" logo is crooked
6. Out for the judge but I'm hesitant - the JF has the thinner bracelet that the 15202 gen has, and it's wonderful compared to the DC. I wonder if the XF will have the thinner bracelet style.
Dial tapisserie comparison:
JF Dial close-up:
DC Quartz and JF at wrist length (left to right):
Verdict:
Though it's not ideal (nor universally perferred), my ideal build is the XF with JF dial, and if the bracelet is thick, use the JF bracelet.
I would never call this a dead giveaway but yes the distance from the screws to the bevel of the bezel is indeed a fraction of a mm too small.
the reason is a different angle of the bevel compared to the gen.
it can be that they purchased a used gen - once a poorly done service was performed to the bezel the material that is lost will result in the same lack of distance to the edge.
easily seen if you have a look at used and serviced 15202/5402 on C24.
that said it is not completely off considering what is out there in the gen world - but indeed it doesn‘t look like a freshly received 15202 from 2019 haha
anyways - we should never expect some factory to be considered a real competitor to the gen. That they achieved such a thinness while not completely messing up the over all look of the movement is a great effort and that is what is to embrace as that circumstance was the reason for merely everyone to hate the JF 15202. now you got near gen thickness, nice side profile and a much better dial.
Regarding the dial we again have to keep in mind what is out in the gen world - and that is quite a broad variation of blue tones and looking at the different series of older 5402 references also different finishing stages of the tapisserie pattern.
XF got the squares better that JF by peoducing a bevel to each square instead of just embossing flat planes which also destroyed the print.
Also the hand base is smaller with a nice bevel to it - again not comparable to gen hands but better than the large pizza center on the JF.
real life pictures and personal reviews will reveal how the over all feel is until then it is more than refreshing to see a respectable competitor like XF to step into the game right before ZF is going to launch another product to destabilize JFs monopoly or even let it vanish completely if they don‘t step up their standards.
tired of reading words like „cheap, dead giveaway, instant tell... etc.“ in a thread regarding a more than welcomed new product which is not just a brain fart like so many other releases in other sections. It produces a biased atmosphere which doesn‘t leave much room for optimism.
my 2ct for today
In short, I agree with your general sentiment. New releases shouldn't be shot down unless they are egregiously wrong (like having a Dr Fun Socks edition pink dial instead of a blue one. That is never acceptable). These are reps, and cheap novelties. I use the word "cheap" in relation to how much the gen costs, and the availability of the gen to the masses.
Each time the rep gets released, you get "experts" who are able to tell you from production pics that the color of the dial is wrong, that the screws are 0.1mm nearer to the edge than gen and therefore an utter fail, that the profile is wrong, and the list goes on. These coming mostly from guys who never owned the gen. Holding both the gen and rep side by side for 5min before handing the gen back to the store owner does not make anyone an expert. You get an idea of what the gen is like, and what the rep is not. But that should not be anyone's claim to being an expert.
I will urge everyone to read, observe, and if possible, do your own comparisons and make your own decisions on what is acceptable to you and what is not. There are many opinions given in here, and some are useful. But ultimately, EACH OWNER decides what is acceptable to him. I certainly ignore baseless pontification, especially those which dismiss a new release even before the production pics are seen. It is not too late to objectively criticize a rep then, and even so, the only thing cheap would be someone expecting a $400 rep to be 1:1, when the price is 0.01:1. You want utter rubbish? This kind of attitude is more rubbish than any rep can be.
Everyone is aware of the general flaws in the royal oak reps, like the thickness, poor dial print, the miyota movement etc. And yes we make fun of them, or point them out. That is fine. But calling these reps "cheap" is being nothing but ironically truthful. They ARE cheap. Cheap, novelty timepieces which actually work and worn for personal leisure.
This is a $300-$400 rep, and it looks the part. Don't BE the cheapo and expect a $400 rep to look like a $30,000 gen and start whining when its not. If you want a 1:1 in terms of quality, then pay the 1:1 price too. If you don't, but still demand that the factories produce a 1:1 watch, then you are the cheap one. The rep is being what it is supposed to be, a flawed, imperfectly copied replica watch priced embarrassing low compared with the gen, and probably something decent looking in real life. Functional too. Feel free to discuss the flaws, and to buy the watch if you like it, or ignore it if you do, but please manage the expectations correctly in this hobby, and not come here seeking something which you seek to represent as gen in real life.
If details and color worry anyone, there's always the gen. Else, guess what, these are the reps from the various Chinese factories. Point out the flaws by all means, but don't pick on them just because they fail in looking luxuriously expensive or 1:1. Cheap is spending $1 and expecting something to look like $100000 and then whining about it when it does not. Live a little, these are reps. It is like expecting plastic flowers to bloom and smell like a real one. Save up for the gen, if the flaws bother you.
Tigerdragon
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SuperLory
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SuperLory
Well-Known Repist
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oh stop encouraging him already, he will end up posting like 14 pics of different shades of purple/pink, each one uglier than the previous.
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I hope you have a good lawyer, because I’m gonna see you in court for crimes against horology
gilrob
Legendary Member
Good question, I'm sure a lot of folks are wondering the same and putting off in buying it until favorable reliability data is available.