Why are we paying astronomical prices?

[bleedinglottery]

When going through our tds I am always shocked by the absolute crazy prices. We are literally being ripped off. Most TDs offer clean and btf Daytona's for 20-30% over market price. And charge 60€ for shipping. So we overpay every watch with 1/3 of the price. Andiot watches has lower prices but even he overcharges alot. Hont has free shipping at least.
Why is there no incentive to find new sellers? Or different ones. Some of the tds here flat out tried to scam me.
Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating to use non tds and buy of random sellers. But it seems to me that tds only try to get the trusted logo her on rwi or other forums to insanely hike up their prices. While not providing any extra service to justify the price.

I started sourcing all of my watches from non tds and I pay a max of 5% for insurance and a max of 30$ for shipping with express (3-5) days.
NO I will not provide any sellers.
NO I will not provide any contact info.
But this is getting ridiculous.

859$+60$= 919$
for a watch sold for
550$+30$+27$=607$ that is a 50% price hike.

Am I not seeing the greater picture here?

 

[KGZ]

This topic has been beaten to death. You have not uncovered a secret. We all know that TDs charge more than regular dealers and that you can source watches for cheaper. Nothing new under the sun here. You may fail to see the advantages of the TD system (that I won't bother to list to you as you should know them better than me for having been here longer than I have) or feel that these advantages are not worth the premium. Others (like me) may feel otherwise. At the end of the day each one is free to make their bed and lie in it as they wish.

 

[Reaps]

When going through our tds I am always shocked by the absolute crazy prices. We are literally being ripped off. Most TDs offer clean and btf Daytona's for 20-30% over market price. And charge 60€ for shipping. So we overpay every watch with 1/3 of the price. Andiot watches has lower prices but even he overcharges alot. Hont has free shipping at least.
Why is there no incentive to find new sellers? Or different ones. Some of the tds here flat out tried to scam me.
Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating to use non tds and buy of random sellers. But it seems to me that tds only try to get the trusted logo her on rwi or other forums to insanely hike up their prices. While not providing any extra service to justify the price.

I started sourcing all of my watches from non tds and I pay a max of 5% for insurance and a max of 30$ for shipping with express (3-5) days.
NO I will not provide any sellers.
NO I will not provide any contact info.
But this is getting ridiculous.

859$+60$= 919$
for a watch sold for
550$+30$+27$=607$ that is a 50% price hike.

Am I not seeing the greater picture here?

This has been discussed to death before. This isn't a hidden secret. Many members including myself sometimes turn to non TDs, and use both a mixture of TDs and non TDs.

First of all, I would still strongly recommend new members to use a TD to get familiar with replicas and the process. You are experienced and know what you're doing so using non TDs is fine. But the majority of new members already barely read the FAQs, stickys, or anything.... and you want them to go use a non TD with no structure? That's a recipe for a shit show.

RWI provides a structured environment for purchasing replicas, at the cost of a higher markup. The replica game is the wild west, and despite what you say, the extra price paid by TDs gives you a layer of safety provided by RWI. Some people value that, some people are willing to take the risk.

You are price sensitive. Pricing is important to you. Some members are not price sensitive and are willing to pay a little bit extra for the service, English translation, and other such factors. Even something mundane as good QC. My non TDs are pretty meh at QC and will get a little mad if you ask for more pictures or RL because of a misaligned rehaut. QC is less valued in China apparently, they only accept RLs if the movement is bad or there's a huge obvious defect, but they don't accept shit like "misaligned date" as a reason for an RL.

To say that TDs are "scamming" you and just "ripping" you off is a bit of an exaggeration. "Scamming" means they wouldn't send you any watch or a lower quality watch. TDs, you get what you ordered.

Do I think the markup is high? A little. But these are businesses, the TDs are often multiple people, you don't know the upcost of having to hire multiple people, multiple spaces, the more your business grows and the more volume you do, the more costs you have. Non TDs are often 1-2 people in Guangzhou sourcing and selling watches. TDs move volume, they need more staff and require higher upkeep.

Additionally, it's illegal, and getting arrested in China for this kind of stuff is no joke. I don't think anyone is willing to risk their life for 10-15 years of jail for a measly profit.

Lastly, if you think the TDs get paid too much, I suggest you spend some time in the TD review sections and see what they have to deal with every single day. The sheer amount of complaints and nit picking and bullshit they deal with makes me think I would never want to be a TD, no matter how good the profit is.

 

[bleedinglottery]

This has been discussed to death before. This isn't a hidden secret. Many members including myself sometimes turn to non TDs, and use both a mixture of TDs and non TDs.

First of all, I would still strongly recommend new members to use a TD to get familiar with replicas and the process. You are experienced and know what you're doing so using non TDs is fine. But the majority of new members already barely read the FAQs, stickys, or anything.... and you want them to go use a non TD with no structure? That's a recipe for a shit show.

RWI provides a structured environment for purchasing replicas, at the cost of a higher markup. The replica game is the wild west, and despite what you say, the extra price paid by TDs gives you a layer of safety provided by RWI. Some people value that, some people are willing to take the risk.

You are price sensitive. Pricing is important to you. Some members are not price sensitive and are willing to pay a little bit extra for the service, English translation, and other such factors. Even something mundane as good QC. My non TDs are pretty meh at QC and will get a little mad if you ask for more pictures or RL because of a misaligned rehaut. QC is less valued in China apparently, they only accept RLs if the movement is bad or there's a huge obvious defect, but they don't accept shit like "misaligned date" as a reason for an RL.

To say that TDs are "scamming" you and just "ripping" you off is a bit of an exaggeration. "Scamming" means they wouldn't send you any watch or a lower quality watch. TDs, you get what you ordered.

Do I think the markup is high? A little. But these are businesses, the TDs are often multiple people, you don't know the upcost of having to hire multiple people, multiple spaces, the more your business grows and the more volume you do, the more costs you have. Non TDs are often 1-2 people in Guangzhou sourcing and selling watches. TDs move volume, they need more staff and require higher upkeep.

Additionally, it's illegal, and getting arrested in China for this kind of stuff is no joke. I don't think anyone is willing to risk their life for 10-15 years of jail for a measly profit.

Lastly, if you think the TDs get paid too much, I suggest you spend some time in the TD review sections and see what they have to deal with every single day. The sheer amount of complaints and nit picking and bullshit they deal with makes me think I would never want to be a TD, no matter how good the profit is.

Thank you for your extensive answer. To clarify. By scamming I mean scamming. I got sent different watches than those of the QC. I got sent watches with inferior movements even though I specifically requested the superior ones. And my cc info got sold all over the web. (I know this because I generate new cards for these types of purchases.)
That is why I turned away from tds and searched for alternative sellers. They provided the same or better service than some I got to experience from the tds list.
I don't really care about the +1/3 but if I had the option to buy the same thing cheaper I would always do that.

But you're completely right most people don't even read the faq and their Odysseey of buying from non tds would probably end in disaster.

 

[Reaps]

Thank you for your extensive answer. To clarify. By scamming I mean scamming. I got sent different watches than those of the QC. I got sent watches with inferior movements even though I specifically requested the superior ones. And my cc info got sold all over the web. (I know this because I generate new cards for these types of purchases.)
That is why I turned away from tds and searched for alternative sellers. They provided the same or better service than some I got to experience from the tds list.
I don't really care about the +1/3 but if I had the option to buy the same thing cheaper I would always do that.

But you're completely right most people don't even read the faq and their Odysseey of buying from non tds would probably end in disaster.

If you got scammed or received a watch with a lower tier movement using a TD on RWI, why didn't you file a help desk to resolve such an issue? That's literally what the RWI help desk exists for? It's more proof why people use a TD, there's a way for recourse or something they can do like a support system. Do you think non TDs would care? I could tell you they would give you the middle finger.

The Credit Card thing isn't TD's fault, it's the payment processor of the TD. Surprise, they're two different things, and also, you have to think about the kind of CC processor that accepts credit card for fake watches, they're not exactly reliable are they? That's why it's recommended not to use CC. It's literally the first STICKIED post in this section of the forum you're posting this on

Caution when paying with a credit-card on TD websites.

In light of recent events (multiple threads about sudden charges on credit-cards that were ONLY used on TD websites) I decided to do a short write-up of why you should always take your precautions. I have 2 extra credit cards just for rep purchases, 1 prepaid Visa and one regular Mastercard...

forum.replica-watch.info

And like you just proved, you're PRICE SENSITIVE. Some people ARE NOT. Don't shame others for using something else.....

 

[JayBee0815]

My non TDs are pretty meh at QC and will get a little mad if you ask for more pictures or RL because of a misaligned rehaut. QC is less valued in China apparently, they only accept RLs if the movement is bad or there's a huge obvious defect, but they don't accept shit like "misaligned date" as a reason for an RL.

Incidentally, the background to the QC fatigue of Non-TDs is that it is perfectly normal in China to be able to return watches if you don't like them. As a side effect, this also means that retailers who do not ship internationally, but only to local customers, are hell-bent on making sure that everything is right - every return incurs costs. For us, of course, it is neither possible nor sensible to send the watch back to China just because an index is one degree off ;-)

 

[eBoy]

OP, you're not just beating a dead horse, you're beating a skeleton of a horse that expired a millennium ago...

TDs have that mark up because they all provide service in English, offer QC with the possibility to reject pieces for less severe issues and most give you an insurance in case of customs seizures in the form of free replacements. These offers and services translate to increased costs for the TDs and it's only fair to have us customers pay for that.

 

[eBoy]

PS: If you insure your Non-TD package and your shipment gets seized for being counterfeit, do you really think that Allianz, Zurich or Axa will reimburse you?

 

[JayBee0815]

PS: If you insure your Non-TD package and your shipment gets seized for being counterfeit, do you really think that Allianz, Zurich or Axa will reimburse you?

Many Non-TDs offer a "insurance" like the TDs. No Allianz ;-)

 

[bleedinglottery]

If you got scammed or received a watch with a lower tier movement using a TD on RWI, why didn't you file a help desk to resolve such an issue? That's literally what the RWI help desk exists for? It's more proof why people use a TD, there's a way for recourse or something they can do like a support system. Do you think non TDs would care? I could tell you they would give you the middle finger.

The Credit Card thing isn't TD's fault, it's the payment processor of the TD. Surprise, they're two different things, and also, you have to think about the kind of CC processor that accepts credit card for fake watches, they're not exactly reliable are they? That's why it's recommended not to use CC. It's literally the first STICKIED post in this section of the forum you're posting this on

Caution when paying with a credit-card on TD websites.

In light of recent events (multiple threads about sudden charges on credit-cards that were ONLY used on TD websites) I decided to do a short write-up of why you should always take your precautions. I have 2 extra credit cards just for rep purchases, 1 prepaid Visa and one regular Mastercard...

forum.replica-watch.info

And like you just proved, you're PRICE SENSITIVE. Some people ARE NOT. Don't shame others for using something else.....

I don't know where I angered you.

I solved my own problems because I would only involve the help desk if I could not solve it myself. Since I solved my own problems that was the end of that arc.

The TD I bought from worked with a form implemented in the site. The day a cc provider sells their customers cc information is the day the company goes bankrupt. As the post you linked states the fault is with the TD and not the processor. So I don't know what to say there other than I think it's highly alarming. As this is plain CC fraud and I really fail to see how somebody could be regarded as "trusted" doing that. But maybe that is just my view.

Regarding price sensitive. I don't have a problem paying 500 for a watch or 5000. I do have a problem with products being massively overpriced. I work with AA clients in my line of work and even these people are as you would say "price sensitive" since it's just plain stupid to pay more than you should. But of course the security the forum provides is good. But I think that money should go into the forums pocket and not the tds.

I really appreciate your extensive answer on the topic since I failed to see the bigger picture and could not see the different approaches. But that's why I asked this question.
I do NOT appreciate how condescending you are talking down to me. I asked a valid question. I just wanted an answer. I am not shaming the buyers but the tds. For overcharging the community that makes them their money. And I don't see where I should sing "Loblieder" on them for that.

 

[Reaps]

I don't know where I angered you.

I solved my own problems because I would only involve the help desk if I could not solve it myself. Since I solved my own problems that was the end of that arc.

The TD I bought from worked with a form implemented in the site. The day a cc provider sells their customers cc information is the day the company goes bankrupt. As the post you linked states the fault is with the TD and not the processor. So I don't know what to say there other than I think it's highly alarming. As this is plain CC fraud and I really fail to see how somebody could be regarded as "trusted" doing that. But maybe that is just my view.

Regarding price sensitive. I don't have a problem paying 500 for a watch or 5000. I do have a problem with products being massively overpriced. I work with AA clients in my line of work and even these people are as you would say "price sensitive" since it's just plain stupid to pay more than you should. But of course the security the forum provides is good. But I think that money should go into the forums pocket and not the tds.

I really appreciate your extensive answer on the topic since I failed to see the bigger picture and could not see the different approaches. But that's why I asked this question.
I do NOT appreciate how condescending you are talking down to me. I asked a valid question. I just wanted an answer. I am not shaming the buyers but the tds. For overcharging the community that makes them their money. And I don't see where I should sing "Loblieder" on them for that.

I think tone is lost over text, I didn't intend my post to be condescending. Sorry if I came off that way.

Have a good day and enjoy yourself.

 

[KGZ]

I got sent different watches than those of the QC. I got sent watches with inferior movements even though I specifically requested the superior ones.

No one has ever said that you are guaranteed satisfaction when dealing with a TD. But you do have the support of RWI staff when you face that kind of issues and AFIK most of these issues get resolved.

And my cc info got sold all over the web. (I know this because I generate new cards for these types of purchases.)

Sorry but you can't pin that on TDs. It's also a well documented issue that has to do with their payment processors. Remember that TDs are dealing in illegal goods so it's not easy for them to have access to legitimate CC payment processors. They have to rely on third parties and these parties are already shady enough to begin with if they are willing to work with businesses dealing in illegal goods. That's the reason why paying with a CC is never a good idea unless you can generate single use CCs. TDs offer (and favor) alternative payment methods such as PP, Revolut, Wise and BTC.

You have made your point about this issue (as many have before you). As I said this is a well know topic and anyone can decide for themselves. If you have had bad experiences with a particular TD, feel free to share them in their respective review section. But the TD system has proven useful and efficient for years and I don't understand why you keep beating a dead horse. Unless I am not seeing the greater picture here...

 

[bleedinglottery]

No one has ever said that you are guaranteed satisfaction when dealing with a TD. But you do have the support of RWI staff when you face that kind of issues and AFIK most of these issues get resolved.

Sorry but you can't pin that on TDs. It's also a well documented issue that has to do with their payment processors. Remember that TDs are dealing in illegal goods so it's not easy for them to have access to legitimate CC payment processors. They have to rely on third parties and these parties are already shady enough to begin with if they are willing to work with businesses dealing in illegal goods. That's the reason why paying with a CC is never a good idea unless you can generate single use CCs. TDs offer (and favor) alternative payment methods such as PP, Revolut, Wise and BTC.

You have made your point about this issue (as many have before you). As I said this is a well know topic and anyone can decide for themselves. If you have had bad experiences with a particular TD, feel free to share them in their respective review section. But the TD system has proven useful and efficient for years and I don't understand why you are keep beating a dead horse. Unless I am not seeing the greater picture here...

Literally I have not seen this discussed here. I seem to be a special kind of stupid. For real.

 

[derjenigewelcher]

God, why are people like people are. Here your point in 1 picture for explaining why different companys have different salarys to pay, renta to pay, differenz buying wholesale peices cause they buy huge numbers or less at a time, offering pre- and after- sales service, waterproofing, movement checking, just so many factors.

 

[Karbon74]

When going through our tds I am always shocked by the absolute crazy prices. We are literally being ripped off. Most TDs offer clean and btf Daytona's for 20-30% over market price. And charge 60€ for shipping. So we overpay every watch with 1/3 of the price. Andiot watches has lower prices but even he overcharges alot. Hont has free shipping at least.
Why is there no incentive to find new sellers? Or different ones. Some of the tds here flat out tried to scam me.
Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating to use non tds and buy of random sellers. But it seems to me that tds only try to get the trusted logo her on rwi or other forums to insanely hike up their prices. While not providing any extra service to justify the price.

I started sourcing all of my watches from non tds and I pay a max of 5% for insurance and a max of 30$ for shipping with express (3-5) days.
NO I will not provide any sellers.
NO I will not provide any contact info.
But this is getting ridiculous.

859$+60$= 919$
for a watch sold for
550$+30$+27$=607$ that is a 50% price hike.

Am I not seeing the greater picture here?

I don't get your point.
Obviously, you know non-TD sources and you know their prices.
What's the purpose of this post then? Why the angst?

It's up to you to decide with whom you buy. You are lucky as many don't know those sources.

I buy a small bottle of Evian water at less than 1€ from the shelf of a supermarket. In a street shop, it's 2€. In the airport, it's 3,5€
In a fancy restaurant, it's 5-6€.

I could also buy it 0.5€ from the dodgy street vendor pawning fake LV bags in from of the Eiffel Tower (hint, don't do it, it's not Evian )

What and where one buys is one's own decision.

Unless what you want is the TD services&security setup, for the price of non TD

 

[bunny123]

I don't know where I angered you.

I solved my own problems because I would only involve the help desk if I could not solve it myself. Since I solved my own problems that was the end of that arc.

The TD I bought from worked with a form implemented in the site. The day a cc provider sells their customers cc information is the day the company goes bankrupt. As the post you linked states the fault is with the TD and not the processor. So I don't know what to say there other than I think it's highly alarming. As this is plain CC fraud and I really fail to see how somebody could be regarded as "trusted" doing that. But maybe that is just my view.

Regarding price sensitive. I don't have a problem paying 500 for a watch or 5000. I do have a problem with products being massively overpriced. I work with AA clients in my line of work and even these people are as you would say "price sensitive" since it's just plain stupid to pay more than you should. But of course the security the forum provides is good. But I think that money should go into the forums pocket and not the tds.

I really appreciate your extensive answer on the topic since I failed to see the bigger picture and could not see the different approaches. But that's why I asked this question.
I do NOT appreciate how condescending you are talking down to me. I asked a valid question. I just wanted an answer. I am not shaming the buyers but the tds. For overcharging the community that makes them their money. And I don't see where I should sing "Loblieder" on them for that.

I am with you on this but again , theres no other option for people like me , non TDS are not ready to ship to my country (reasons known best to them) , i just paid a popular TD 838*2 for the new daytonas plus 90$ shipping on top whereas the non TDS are selling them for as low as 575$ it does piss me off but thats the only option ive got and i am sure there many more like me thats why we choose the TDs. its not a hidden secret that TDs overcharge but i am paying to get the watch

 

[JayBee0815]

God, why are people like people are. Here your point in 1 picture for explaining why different companys have different salarys to pay, renta to pay, differenz buying wholesale peices cause they buy huge numbers or less at a time, offering pre- and after- sales service, waterproofing, movement checking, just so many factors.

Sounds nice, but misses the point
Take a PC for example. If you are familiar with the technology, you can buy the configuration you want at a the cheapest online seller. But don’t except any help or service. But if you are someone like my father you are looking for a honest and reliable seller, who answers all your questions, offers you the components that are optimal for your need and then installs it at your home. Of course he takes a much higher price, but that’s ok. So do our TDs. Good service and communication and pay and forget. For that benefits you pay. If you are a Pro and know exactly what you’re doing, you don’t have to pay the premium. But 99% of us aren’t this kind of Pros.

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Sounds nice, but misses the point
Take a PC for example. If you are familiar with the technology, you can buy the configuration you want at a the cheapest online seller. But don’t except any help or service. But if you are someone like my father you are looking for a honest and reliable seller, who answers all your questions, offers you the components that are optimal for your need and then installs it at your home. Of course he takes a much higher price, but that’s ok. So do our TDs. Good service and communication and pay and forget. For that benefits you pay. If you are a Pro and know exactly what you’re doing, you don’t have to pay the premium. But 99% of us aren’t this kind of Pros.

You bring it in one perfect sentence: Pay and forget. Couldnt agree more!

 

[JayBee0815]

I buy a small bottle of Evian water at less than 1€ from the shelf of a supermarket. In a street shop, it's 2€. In the airport, it's 3,5€
In a fancy restaurant, it's 5-6€.

I could also buy it 0.5€ from the dodgy street vendor pawning fake LV bags in from of the Eiffel Tower (hint, don't do it, it's not Evian )

Sooooo. Mr @Karbon74 is an Evian-Snob! Nice to know.

 

[Karbon74]

Sooooo. Mr @Karbon74 is an Evian-Snob! Nice to know.

Barbarian

Evian is just the standard water for the People, in FR. Cheap cheap. I have no money so I drink Evian.

Real snobs drink Orezza.
Like @KGZ and @mrsullivan