What we do about upgrading the waterproof

[McDuck888]

That's why we suggest that people read and use the information shared on the forum. Unfortunately many do not.

The info wasn't on the forum, nor ctimes website tbf. .
If they advertised the "2BAR" who would pay them their 48 dollars or so for the service ?! I wonder if it's important that it should be advertised as being a tiny 2 BAR.

 

[Karbon74]

indeed pointless waste of money. water from a tap comes at higher pressure than 2bars

 

[McDuck888]

I wish I knew this before paying $48 + paypal fees and waiting an extra 2-3 weeks.
Looks like 2 bar is only 29.02 PSI. Not even really suitable for showering or rain. I guess I got duped.

Ain't that the truth.

I wonder why they don't test to 5 bar as a standard to make that waterproof testing process a more worthwhile task for the customer. It sounds to me like an easy way to pull in quick cash and accidentally(?) dupe people who don't ask details about the service that they're paying for as it is now. Some people just don't bother asking details about the service they're paying money for apparently.. I know that's their problem but the details about this '2 bar' were just not online anywhere to be found. And I think that sucks a bit.

 

[Procurator]

2BAR test = no test whatsoever

Worth exactly 0 money.

I would think, that 5 bar machines being an absolute minimum, and on the low end of the financial requirements, @CTime should probably get on that before charging for waterproofing while not providing any warranty and saying “don't take them near water”.

I swim with all my reps, all have been upgraded and pressure tested.
This $50 for basically nothing is not sitting right with me.

 

[McDuck888]

@Procurator I love the way you write. You explain my feeling much more clearly than I ever could.

 

[Procurator]

@Procurator I love the way you write. You explain my feeling much more clearly than I ever could.

Thanks brother, sometimes my verbal diarrhea actually makes somewhat of a sense, but its rare.

 

[CTime]

From our experience, half of the rep watches would explode under 5 bar test(FYI some of the gen could also fail it), and that would make unrepairable damage to the watch.
Of course every pressure test machine can do 5 bar, our watchmaker just set it to 2 or 3 bar depending on different models so if it fails it won't do too much damage.
Most of the watch was not designed to be waterproofed, that means they are not sealing very well when they are out of the factory, what we can do is to make sure it will survive your daily use, and not for taking it to the pool/shower or something.
Some models were done test(mostly spot test) before they went out, Clean GMT-II and Daytona for example, they had 3 bar test, even then some of them still failed the test here. That's why we suggest you to be more careful about the reps, it could survive swimming but if not we can't take responsibility of hte repairing, this is also the way we prevent future problems.
For this waterproof upgrade treatment, it's optional, we don't suggest our clients to do it, only when they feel like they need it. The 48$ includes the sealing parts replaced, manual fee of disassembling/assembling the watch, pressure testing, shipping around from our office to the watchmaker. Tbh we don't make money on additional treatment(sometimes we lose money if the watch failed and we need more parts to fix it), they are only for the better service.

 

[Procurator]

My point stands.

You are charging for something, that actually doesn't achieve anything.
And while you have a full right to do so, responsibility then falls on the owner who can choose freely to do or not to do it, but from my point of view, it's not very honest.

 

[CTime]

My point stands.

You are charging for something, that actually doesn't achieve anything.
And while you have a full right to do so, responsibility then falls on the owner who can choose freely to do or not to do it, but from my point of view, it's not very honest.

What would you suggest us to make this service better if you will, we always welcome advices

 

[Karbon74]

What would you suggest us to make this service better if you will, we always welcome advices

i would respectfully suggest either test to 5 bars or reduce the pricing to less than $20

 

[Procurator]

What would you suggest us to make this service better if you will, we always welcome advices

In my opinion, and it's just that, my opinion, it should be a bit more structured and pricing adjusted.

If you wanna offer this basic "splash proof", then the price needs to reflect that. Say 15-20 bucks.

Next tier would be 5-bar with potential damage & repair costs - this means without prior arrangement, but with knowledge of the customer, that such a scenario might come about and should expect more cost.
But the next point makes this very much moot.

And finally, for the $50 you charge now, it should include all the necessary gaskets to make it waterproof prior to testing, to prevent explosion.
If your math doesn't work out like that, I'm sure 60-70 with a warranty on all new parts and labor and 5-bar test slip would be palatable for most.

Edit: Forgot to mention xtals, which are sometimes an issue, but thats not general and should be discussed per case bases.

 

[pooseyclot]

What would you suggest us to make this service better if you will, we always welcome advices

I would suggest testing to at least 5 bar like the others have said or specify its only to 2 bar... Myself and others paid $48 for a service that Ctime wont stand by or warranty, this is why I felt duped. Had I known prior I would've saved my money. This did not feel honest at all and took almost 2 weeks to perform.

 

[CTime]

In my opinion, and it's just that, my opinion, it should be a bit more structured and pricing adjusted.

If you wanna offer this basic "splash proof", then the price needs to reflect that. Say 15-20 bucks.

Next tier would be 5-bar with potential damage & repair costs - this means without prior arrangement, but with knowledge of the customer, that such a scenario might come about and should expect more cost.
But the next point makes this very much moot.

And finally, for the $50 you charge now, it should include all the necessary gaskets to make it waterproof prior to testing, to prevent explosion.
If your math doesn't work out like that, I'm sure 60-70 with a warranty on all new parts and labor and 5-bar test slip would be palatable for most.

Edit: Forgot to mention xtals, which are sometimes an issue, but thats not general and should be discussed per case bases.

I see, we used to separate the test service for 15$ and upgrade service for 30$, and ppl mostly only order the test before.
Then it's hard for the client to pay more if we tell them that you are unlucky your watch failed the test and so. Under that case, we paid too much for this 'secretly ' upgrade so we decided to combine the service and replace sealing parts no matter what.

I just talked with the watchmaker, if we want to do 5bar, not only the price will be higher(need to rebuild some parts for different models), even after treatment there is still chance of exploding, the break point could be anywhere, once it explode, we may have to pay much more to get replaced parts and take a way longer time for that. The explosion will do no harm to the machine, but the client could lost a watch. I can already see the trouble coming

@WatchSmith.US did once on a GMT and it was really a disaster

 

[CTime]

I would suggest testing to at least 5 bar like the others have said or specify its only to 2 bar... Myself and others paid $48 for a service that Ctime wont stand by or warranty, this is why I felt duped. Had I known prior I would've saved my money. This did not feel honest at all and took almost 2 weeks to perform.

We will make it highlight in the treatment description in the future, sorry for that misunderstanding

 

[Karbon74]

I understand what you are saying.

Sometimes it's better to remove a service from the catalog if on one side people don't see the value for the price you charge, and on the other side, changing the price would not work for you.

Please take my words as constructive feedback

 

[pooseyclot]

We will make it highlight in the treatment description in the future, sorry for that misunderstanding

Thank you. I'm trying to help manage other buyers expectations... Maybe stop offering this service as this provides the buyer no value and specify that these are splash-proof only.

 

[McDuck888]

I really enjoyed the comment mentioning 'splash proofing'. It's such a great couple of words that much better describes the action you're performing. It's not a 'waterproof upgrade' but is a 'splash-proofing'.

Would you consider adopting these words instead when the modification gets suggested to customers?

 

[Procurator]

I see, we used to separate the test service for 15$ and upgrade service for 30$, and ppl mostly only order the test before.
Then it's hard for the client to pay more if we tell them that you are unlucky your watch failed the test and so. Under that case, we paid too much for this 'secretly ' upgrade so we decided to combine the service and replace sealing parts no matter what.

I just talked with the watchmaker, if we want to do 5bar, not only the price will be higher(need to rebuild some parts for different models), even after treatment there is still chance of exploding, the break point could be anywhere, once it explode, we may have to pay much more to get replaced parts and take a way longer time for that. The explosion will do no harm to the machine, but the client could lost a watch. I can already see the trouble coming

@WatchSmith.US did once on a GMT and it was really a disaster

I can see the troubles too, thats why I'm saying you should think about the offerings and / or client communication.

I'm quite sure, that if you explain, that on ZF 15500v3, the xtal is thinner than gen by a considerable margin, the risk of disaster is too high and if you explain it in the client-centric way - i.e. "Look, if you want to be sure, you will need to do this anyway if you want to swim with your watch" but the price is, idk 100 bucks? Id still pay that. But again, my 15500 has stock xtal and it's fine at 5bar.
It's warping, but it's tight.

If someone insists on keeping it, then its out of your hands, since you did all you could to prevent problems.

But rep Rolex xtals are solid, never had a problem, even though I'm sure it could happen. That would be most likely attributed to a manufacturing flaw in the xtal itself, nothing you can do (or anyone else) short of changing the xtal.

My humble opinion is, that $50 does not match the offered service's expected result, therefore, since you are the one TD that goes above and beyond, Im convinced people will pay a bit more for the peace of mind.

But maybe Im completely off base and your numbers say the opposite, Im just offering my 2 cents on the matter.

 

[CTime]

I really enjoyed the comment mentioning 'splash proofing'. It's such a great couple of words that much better describes the action you're performing. It's not a 'waterproof upgrade' but is a 'splash-proofing'.

Would you consider adopting these words instead when the modification gets suggested to customers?

I would seriously consider that, it really explained everything lol

 

[CTime]

I can see the troubles too, thats why I'm saying you should think about the offerings and / or client communication.

I'm quite sure, that if you explain, that on ZF 15500v3, the xtal is thinner than gen by a considerable margin, the risk of disaster is too high and if you explain it in the client-centric way - i.e. "Look, if you want to be sure, you will need to do this anyway if you want to swim with your watch" but the price is, idk 100 bucks? Id still pay that. But again, my 15500 has stock xtal and it's fine at 5bar.
It's warping, but it's tight.

If someone insists on keeping it, then its out of your hands, since you did all you could to prevent problems.

But rep Rolex xtals are solid, never had a problem, even though I'm sure it could happen. That would be most likely attributed to a manufacturing flaw in the xtal itself, nothing you can do (or anyone else) short of changing the xtal.

My humble opinion is, that $50 does not match the offered service's expected result, therefore, since you are the one TD that goes above and beyond, Im convinced people will pay a bit more for the peace of mind.

But maybe Im completely off base and your numbers say the opposite, Im just offering my 2 cents on the matter.

You are right, I really appreciate all the suggestions, I will inform my boss and make this right soon.