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What is a Trusted Dealer?

daytona4me

SOVED-24 - Sudden Onset Varying Excuses Disorder
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It is my opinion that the definition of a "Trusted Dealer" is one where history has shown that the customer will receive what he has ordered without an exaggeration of the expected product. Model & Type of movement, type of crystal and coatings, services performed to the watch or movement, coatings or treatments to the case and quality or type of lume are examples of things that can be exaggerated. If a dealer was found to be knowingly exaggerating the details of a watch and expressed gross negligence in the control processes that should be expected to be in place prior to selling / shipping a watch, it would be my opinion that the dealer could no longer be "Trusted".

If a dealer threatens another dealer directly or through their supplier in an attempt to decrease competition I think the the label that most appropriately would fit is "Cheating Dealer" or simply.. a CHEAT, and one who conducts business in very poor taste without regard to his customer.

Let's examine the word Competition...

Main Entry:
com·pe·ti·tion
Pronunciation:
\?käm-p?-?ti-sh?n\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Late Latin competition-, competitio, from Latin competere
Date:
1579

1: the act or process of competing : rivalry: as a: the effort of two or more parties acting independently to secure the business of a third party by offering the most favorable terms b: active demand by two or more organisms or kinds of organisms for some environmental resource in short supply 2: a contest between rivals; also : one's competitors <faced tough competition>


Now lets examine the word CHEAT

Main Entry:
Cheat
Pronunciation:
\?ch?t\
Function:
verb
Etymology:
2cheat
Date:
1590

transitive verb
1: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud2: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice3: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>intransitive verb1 a: to practice fraud or trickery b: to violate rules dishonestly


I dont care if you think I am only 75% right... if you support someone who conducts business like this then you are 100% wrong.

And to be more specific, you directly contribute to the fleecing of future customers as you feed the monster and then encourage others to utilize his service. I could go on and say that you also contribute to higher prices to be paid by everyone by your endorsement and continued support of a CHEAT but I do understand that your shoulders are only so large.

I can accept and tolerate ignorance(lack of knowledge, education, or awareness) but I refuse to accept your negligence of erudition (understanding information gained from being educated).

A member who would do this shows a severe disrespect to his fellow forum member.

And to the moron who might say "your trying to bring honor to a hobby that includes copyright infringement and that is extremely illegal" I say that you should ask an administrator to delete your account and do it on every replica forum that you frequent as you found forums like these just for this reason, to not get over charged, scammed, price gouged, etc. You are a hypocrite for thinking as such and a buffoon for posting it. So soon for you to forget why you found a place like this.
 

ThreadLocker

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A BIG F-ing Plus 1 Excellent post, Greg. I am with you all the way, brother!
 

cybee

Legendary Member
23/11/06
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under these guidelines some of our dealers would have to be classified as "untrusted"...sounds like distant rumblings of a forthcoming shakedown.
 

LegendofSpeed

Respected Member
4/5/06
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We have to constantly evaluate what is best for the community...

That you receive what you order can not be the sole determination of a trusted dealer.... there are more ways to hurt our members than to not deliver...

Since d4m has opened this thread up.... tell me, the members of RWI, what do you consider to be a trusted dealer? And, should we find a dealer has been delivering the goods as promised, but has been affecting your experience in other ways.... what should we do about it?

How much do you trust and rely on our judgment as to who is and is not a trusted dealer?

How much does our advice affect your buying decision? If we were to tell you that a trusted dealer is not to be trusted anymore, would you still buy from them, as they have always delivered the goods...
 

crick

Respected Member
1/8/06
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i rely the words of members and look for any sorta feedback on any dealers. Too much positive hubub i dont bother with. i look for the clear concise negative reviews that is voiced intelligently for an accurate picture. I already know many dealers here do a swell job - but i'd like to see the small hiccups and how they're handled - cuz who knows? i could be that small hiccup.

heck, if a dealer steps outta line to insult the customer, clear picture for me to stay away.

buyers make their own choices though, so they'll have to be teh judge in the end. hopefully with the community at work, they'll make good judgement calls.
 

brtelec

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I for one could not agree more with what D4M, or the rest of you for that fact, have said. I have been here almost two years and the experience I have had with this hobby has been almost all very positive. I have dealt with almost every dealer on here at one time or another and they have all come through with flying colors. Some require more patience than others, some are slow shippers, but I have never personally been burned. That said, I personally am surprised that Andrew and Josh are still listed on our forum as TRUSTED dealers! Their disregard for us as a forum and as individual customers is appalling. I know things have to be discussed and things take time, but if this is where this was going, I will say it! They need to be removed from the list and I expect you guys to eventually come to this conclusion. How could you not?
 

ThreadLocker

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crick said:
heck, if a dealer steps outta line to insult the customer, clear picture for me to stay away.

Who on earth would do that?

Hint: Read my Sig!
 

ThreadLocker

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swissaddict said:
ThreadLocker said:
crick said:
heck, if a dealer steps outta line to insult the customer, clear picture for me to stay away.

Who on earth would do that?

Hint: Read my Sig!
Your X-wife has been nothing but polite to me.

Have you guys set a date? I heard that she wants to do it on the beach this time!
 

swissaddict

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6/3/08
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D4M, I commend you for opening up this can of worms.

I think for a dealer to be "trusted", he must consistently fulfill certain expectations. For example, at minimum, we must trust that he will deliver products as advertised.

Beyond that, what else would we like to be able to trust about a dealer in order to properly call him "trusted"?

That he will provide refunds or repairs for defective or incorrect products? That he will treat us kindly? That he will refrain from unethical business practices with regard to other dealers? If we are to define "trusted dealers" and embrace a group of them, then we need to decide which expectations they must fulfill.

Alternatively, because different members may have different ideas of what attributes are important in a dealer (some may not care about price, some may not care about being treated politely, etc.), we could evaluate each potentially (within reason) "trusted" dealer based on a number of categories and allow members to choose their preferred dealers based on these ratings.
 

brtelec

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I do not give two good shits if he is polite to me, but I would think that any dealer that would conspire to make sure I am taken for all they can get out of me by strong arming a decent dealer offering a product at a fair price, that to me falls under not TRUSTworthy.
 

fakemaster

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31/5/07
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A trusted dealer never misrepresents product. They deliver exactly what is promised and if anything is wrong they take care of it in a fair and reasonable way. And as TL said they never under any circumstances verbally abuse or threaten people. Based on these things I can think of a couple right now who need to be hung out to dry.
 

rawg

Getting To Know The Place
29/6/08
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LegendOfSpeed said:
How much do you trust and rely on our judgment as to who is and is not a trusted dealer?

How much does our advice affect your buying decision? If we were to tell you that a trusted dealer is not to be trusted anymore, would you still buy from them,


I wouldn't buy from them anymore if such an endorsement is given to a particular seller, I have to trust the experienced peeps here of course. (Though this is kinda off-topic but an important thing to me as a buyer: whether the seller has convenient means for me to pay for the item (i.e. Paypal and/or VISA/MAstercard). QUite frnakly, I'm turned off right away by other means of payign for the item......)
 

watchbuff

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"Trust " is something you develop from subjective experience.
I Truse dealer X becasue they always made good on defective damaged goods, never dropshipped , blah blah blah.
I think rewording to "reccomended "Dealers would be a good thing to improve the format on how we work on the darkside.

-A trusted dealer to me DOES NOT try to muscle other dealers in supply chiking for price gouging. You might as well find another business becasue if he was the only dealer to have a watch i wanted , I would not buy it for that reason. In the rep game that's impossible.

-A trusted dealer does not drop ship. A personal sore spot for me considering my recent experiences. Does not make him bad but sure does ensure i am getting what I asked for or if it is in workable order.
If someone caame to me and saif I need a Wescam MX-15 Turret camera, i would go to my supplier , get one make sure it worked before i shipped it because it's my reputation that rests on it.
Now playing devils advocate if my "shipper" follows my istrructiosn to the letter and ships without me knowing and has to the last details of what is being asked...then there should be a seemless flow to the customer.
-A trusted dealer should not break communication with the customer. There is no reason to take a week to answer an email. I know sone are busy but come on. when your in business for yourself custemer service is the baseline all other things build upon. It took weeks for me to get a hold of my "trusted" dealer and finally get straight what i wanted and get it shipped. They are quick to take our $ but should be quick to respond to queries since my money is good no matter what dealer I go to.

My .02$
 

hooligan

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I couldn't agree more, D4Me. I was contemplating posting a thread like this myself, actually.

IMHO, whether a dealer is "nice" should not be factored in. A trusted dealer, to me, is one who sends you what you paid for in a reasonable amount of time, and delivers the product that you bought. Furthermore, a trusted dealer would stand behind the product, for a reasonable period, if there were issues with it.

Now, if a dealer is attempting to price-fix a certain model by denying it to other dealers does NOT make them an un-trusted dealer, in my opinion.

However, these forums are here to inform and "protect" replica watch buyers as much as possible about the good, bad and ugly of the rep watch world. If we are trying to educate and protect, possibly price-fixing bears MUCH discussing. Once the membership is armed with this knowledge, they can go forward and do as they see fit since he/she would have the big picture at that point.

If you bought an older, non-price-fixed rep from a dealer involved in attempted price-fixing, would you get the watch you expected at the price that dealer was advertising? Yes, almost certainly. Isn't that the biggest criteria for a trusted dealer? IMO, yes.

I think there needs to be an attempt made to separate the idea of a "trusted dealer" and the price-fixing issue.

If I found out that one of our dealers beat his/her dog, or cheated on his/her spouse, or whatever, I might choose to stop doing business with them because they have offended me on a personal level. That doesn't make them untrusted, IMO. This situation is close to that example. I don't agree with the business ethics surrounding possible price-fixing of certain reps. I can't argue that it doesn't make financial sense for the dealers, but it is bad for us collectors, without question.

What a person does with the information provided here is up to the individual and I wouldn't presume to label any decision made right or wrong for that individual.
 

supermanx

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In my opion a "dealer" is someone who delivers what they advertise, and fixes it if its not correct. That has nothing to do with being trusted or not... If they do not do at least that then they are a scammer plain and simple.

A trusted dealer in my opinion is someone that provides a product to its customer because it cares about their customers. Of course a business should be expected to make a profit, but in my opinion dealer or group of dealer that conspires to artificially inflate the cost of their goods is a scammer. Any dealers that would attempt to strong-arm other dealers that offer the same product at a lower price is a scammer. The price of reps has gone up insanely in the last year, to the point where i find myself not interested in the hobby nearly as much as I once was.

As a side, as much as i'd like to I cannot justify the purchase of an updated version of a $300 watch costing $600 because it has a modified asian movement !?!?!?!
 

watchbuff

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Maybe the term"reccomended" would be best.
Dealer review section needs to be utilized more
 

Klink

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a dealer and a customer can agree on whatever they like in terms of quality, price and service should a watch arrive doa or
with problems. Pricing is subject to what the market will bear, and as long as the dealer makes enough sales and enough
profit from the volume of sales, well, pricing will be as already stated, whatever the market will bear.

It does seem that while many may not be pleased with rising prices, there are enough buys supporting dealers in spite
of rising prices..

To mention all this here is fine, but does not seem to have, nor has these sorts of threads ever had much impact on
pricinng, on service, on quality.. A bit of due diligence will answer many of these 'questions', whether or not the
answers are acceptable to the individual concerned.

Life is Good!

Klink

:D
 

coop

OG member in the Lou
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quote]
Have you guys set a date? I heard that she wants to do it on the beach this time!
[/quote]

Your gonna need a cameraman. I have lots of experience! I would be happy to shoot it for ya!
 

coop

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All kidding aside. I agree with you guys. Also, in light of recent happenings I have decided not buy from a certain dealer anymore.
My fav dealer is still performing above and beyond what I expect. And I am going to make my next purchase from a dealer I have not dealt with before, but who gets high marks for our membership.