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What’s up with pams not being ‘as hot’?

Wildcatfan

Active Member
13/2/18
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I never liked the looks of them but lately after seeing some in the sales section I've become a fan along with the Omega watches. I've had gen and rep rolex but they're so common now with all the cheap reps that I'm heading a different direction. It's probably one of the next watches I'll get.
 

Bendori

Active Member
2/5/16
305
109
43
Bummer? For what?
You choose your watches taking a look at the market preferences?
Or you buy them for your own satisfaction and taste?

geez why are you so aggressive?
Must EVERYONE buy fake watches for their own satisfaction and taste or something? Are you like a guardian of fake watches? lol
And as a matter of fact, I do. I am bummed that there will never be a 4-layer version for my 'own satisfaction and taste'.
Happy now?

Please consider being a little more considerate.
 

lorenzo1910

I'm Pretty Popular
12/2/18
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Tuscany - Italy
geez why are you so aggressive?
Must EVERYONE buy fake watches for their own satisfaction and taste or something? Are you like a guardian of fake watches? lol
And as a matter of fact, I do. I am bummed that there will never be a 4-layer version for my 'own satisfaction and taste'.
Happy now?

Please consider being a little more considerate.

Mate, the one that's aggresive is you.
And I really don't care what makes you happy...

Now that you explained the 4 layer thing I can understand what bother you... but it wasn't that clear in the previous post.
 

Bendori

Active Member
2/5/16
305
109
43
Mate, the one that's aggresive is you.
And I really don't care what makes you happy...

Now that you explained the 4 layer thing I can understand what bother you... but it wasn't that clear in the previous post.

Ok I am sorry for being aggressive too. My bad.
I just don't like it when people come at me like that without caring to figure out what I mean.
But you get my point. It's just SAD there will never be a correct 4 layer 616.
I'm sure we can agree on that...
 
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Bendori

Active Member
2/5/16
305
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For gens you could make an argument about the price but not so much with reps (which is why they're here in the first place). You could argue that for the asking price, very similar models would probably dilute the demand but then that production model has been existing for a long time already.

Rep-wise, the newer models in the market are using in-house movements and new form factors such as the Due and 38mm sizes. The factories cannot seem to catch up with the trend, the latest push seems to be the replication of the P.9000/P.9001 movement but no more new developments beyond that. Since PAM rep collectors are becoming more and more discerning, making something that's 3mm thicker than the gen simply won't cut it nowadays. Look at the PAM777, still just on the first page of the new releases from Puretime and it was already discounted, maybe because of the feedback regarding the dial and the movement.

Then you add to that the departure of Noob from most of the PAM replica seen a few years ago and the closure this year of H-factory. They were at the time, the biggest producers of PAM reps and a very good rivalry between them resulted to a lot of models being produced, even releasing the same models on a head to head like the PAM243. Now the only factory making PAM reps is VSF and its little sibling XF, from its KW/V6F legacy. ZF is still producing a few but not so many.

In comparison to Rolex, things have largely remained stable in terms of the watch movements and cases, so the rep factories can focus on continual improvement, no need to make the next movement or the next case design iteration. Officine Panerai is continually evolving with new materials, new movements and new case designs (not radical but still different from what is existing). We've hit a plateau of sorts, we're waiting for the next one to appear. Time will tell.

Massive insight. Thanks for the input.
I bet my money on this brand going doooowwwn in the rep world.
 

Bendori

Active Member
2/5/16
305
109
43
Panerai is a weird brand. An overly simplistic view of their popularity in the first place was them being worn by some of the Hollywood A-list. Their simplicity, design, and size were unlike most other brands around at the time (especially given that this was at the start of the trend towards bigger watches).

The Paneristi haven't really liked many of the new models that have been released in the past ~5 years, and there's a general feeling that the brand has become somewhat stagnant in their innovation recently. Then, when they try to do something new (like the 'Due' line), people complain that it's not a "proper" Pam with "proper" Pam DNA.

Panerai have almost become a victim of their own success. They've developed a pretty loyal following who in some ways mirror music hispters - complaining when they release stuff that's too similar, then complaining it's too different when they try to change it up.

Anyway, Panerai have just appointed a new CEO, so hopefully he'll be able to right the ship and we'll see an increase in their popularity over the next few years. They've already got some crazily beautiful/complicated haute horlogerie pieces, here's just hoping some of those ideas filter down to the retail models, and that those models prove popular enough to be repped.

Massive insight. Thanks for the input.
I bet my money on this brand going doooowwwn in the rep world.
 

lorenzo1910

I'm Pretty Popular
12/2/18
1,004
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Tuscany - Italy
Bendori, the truth is that I never wanted to be aggressive. Sorry if it looked like that.
I was just guessing why the end of production of a watch would disappoint anyone...
When you said "I’m still waiting for that 616 with 4 carbon layers" I was thinking about an already bought watch that was in his road to your home (and thus complaining about the end of the production)
And BTW the 616 is one of fav PAM (but not bought yet)
Peace mate!
 

superspark69

Respected Member
Certified
22/10/18
3,148
2,210
113
Sheffield, UK
Ok I am sorry for being aggressive too. My bad.
I just don't like it when people come at me like that without caring to figure out what I mean.
But you get my point. It's just SAD there will never be a correct 4 layer 616.
I'm sure we can agree on that...

I thought the newest VSF had 4 layers?, I can see four different layers in my bezel?
 

superspark69

Respected Member
Certified
22/10/18
3,148
2,210
113
Sheffield, UK
lzyfX.jpg


excuse the dust lol
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
864
0
lzyfX.jpg


excuse the dust lol

It does look like there is more than 3 layers. There are only 3 colored layers, but sometimes the lightest colored layer repeats so you can see two adjacent light layers then a darker then darkest, so that makes it 4 layers. :)
 

nalomb

Be Excellent
6/8/12
3,563
627
113
Oh man -- I truly do appreciate the minutiae many members are willing to engage in to further this hobby, but its a tad tedious for me haha.

This reminds me of the great 386 debate where everyone was asking "is it too brown," "is there enough purple," "is the base titanium so as to match the weight," etc. It was never released in gen! No one will even know nor will there ever be something reliable with which to compare. Same goes for the carbo-tech in my mind. I'll gladly sign a $10k check to anyone who catches one in the wild in a 200 mile radius of my house.
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
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864
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Oh man -- I truly do appreciate the minutiae many members are willing to engage in to further this hobby, but its a tad tedious for me haha.

This reminds me of the great 386 debate where everyone was asking "is it too brown," "is there enough purple," "is the base titanium so as to match the weight," etc. It was never released in gen! No one will even know nor will there ever be something reliable with which to compare. Same goes for the carbo-tech in my mind. I'll gladly sign a $10k check to anyone who catches one in the wild in a 200 mile radius of my house.

Wow, you live in a remote area? :lol:
 

muiramas

Aristocrat
18/1/17
5,977
7,764
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Latest 616 has 4 carbon layers. I have the previous version with 3. The case still only has 2 layers though?

As a brand, personally I think going high end / luxury was the wrong call. They should have stayed below £3k.

As dead as the new rep releases have been I'm hopeful we'll see one of these one day...


lCQZ8.md.jpg
lC1xU.md.jpg
 

Bendori

Active Member
2/5/16
305
109
43
Latest 616 has 4 carbon layers. I have the previous version with 3. The case still only has 2 layers though?

As a brand, personally I think going high end / luxury was the wrong call. They should have stayed below £3k.

As dead as the new rep releases have been I'm hopeful we'll see one of these one day...


lCQZ8.md.jpg
lC1xU.md.jpg

No. That is false. Why are you spreading false information mate?
The latest version of 616 is v3 with THREE layers and you even mentioned so in this thread
https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...ews-on-the-pam-616-carbotech-v3-vsf-yet/page4
There has never been a V4. What makes you say the latest has 4 layers?
 

Bendori

Active Member
2/5/16
305
109
43
lzyfX.jpg


excuse the dust lol

Thanks for taking the effort to upload the pic!
I see there are only 3 layers. Whitish, Greyish, Blackish.
In gen there are 4.
It's such a shame that they go through all the damned effort to make an actual carbon layered case then forget to add that one extra layer resulting in fucking everything up.
I am 100% certain that these 'factories' are people with professional trolling background.
RIckrolling rep enthusiasts since V0!!
 

johnlogan

Legendary Member
Certified
18/12/15
10,010
14,760
113


I have just very recently rotated back to PAM after a 10 year absence. The brand is definitely not for the Rolex Millennials and I concur that oversized watches are not in vogue.

3 vs 4 layers or not I love this 616!
 
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superspark69

Respected Member
Certified
22/10/18
3,148
2,210
113
Sheffield, UK
Latest 616 has 4 carbon layers. I have the previous version with 3. The case still only has 2 layers though?

As a brand, personally I think going high end / luxury was the wrong call. They should have stayed below £3k.

As dead as the new rep releases have been I'm hopeful we'll see one of these one day...


lCQZ8.md.jpg
lC1xU.md.jpg

Hopefully they will do that sub
 

muiramas

Aristocrat
18/1/17
5,977
7,764
113
No. That is false. Why are you spreading false information mate?
The latest version of 616 is v3 with THREE layers and you even mentioned so in this thread
https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-vsf-yet/page4
There has never been a V4. What makes you say the latest has 4 layers?

I thought they had added another carbon layer? I guess not - I've been out of touch with Pam for a while as nothing interesting was going on.

Regardless of actual number of different type of layers, the carbon layering of the V3 is more complicated than the V2, and looks closer to the original, and so any suggestion they are the same and not updated is not correct. No one is suggesting there is a V4 - I don't know why you mention it.

Also, back off a bit with the accusatory tone - there's a difference between making a mistake and spreading false information.
 
Last edited:

Bendori

Active Member
2/5/16
305
109
43
I thought they had added another carbon layer? I guess not - I've been out of touch with Pam for a while as nothing interesting was going on.

Regardless of actual number of different type of layers, the carbon layering of the V3 is more complicated than the V2, and looks closer to the original, and so any suggestion they are the same and not updated is not correct. No one is suggesting there is a V4 - I don't know why you mention it.

Also, back off a bit with the accusatory tone - there's a difference between making a mistake and spreading false information.

Well I'm sorry if you took it harsh but it was just weird that you were actively participating in the other thread which concluded there are only 3 layers,
then coming back here claiming there are 4. I thought something was off.
The possibility of you making a mistake with such firm statement never crossed my mind.
Don't take it wrong. No hard feelings.
 
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