VSF new release 126618/126613 submariner with VS 3235 movement

[vipstyle888]

Great color…

Looks good. Is this stock? Or replated?

 

[dbs]

Hello, please check the photos. Movement 3235 achieves a long kinetic energy reserve by making the barrel thinner, thus reducing the torque of the power output and consequently the oscillation will be lower.

Wrong!

The reason you get low amplitude is, you set lift angle at 52 degrees. Rolex 3235 lift angle should be 55 degree.

If you see amplitude around 300 with 52 degree lift angle setting, that's fake VS3235. VS3235 is a true clone and you should observe around 270 degrees.

The thin barrel wall does not mean low torque. If you place a genuine Rolex barrel to a VS3235, the minute wheel could be damaged in the first day because of higher torque.

 

[mrlemonjello]

The thin barrel wall does not mean low torque. If you place a genuine Rolex barrel to a VS3235, the minute wheel could be damaged in the first day because of higher torque.

If I’m understanding correctly, are you saying the torque of a Gen mainspring and barrel can strip the gears in a clone movement? I just installed one in my vr3185 and want to pull it out if this is true. Seems to be running fine.

 

[KJ2020]

Wrong!

The reason you get low amplitude is, you set lift angle at 52 degrees. Rolex 3235 lift angle should be 55 degree.

If you see amplitude around 300 with 52 degree lift angle setting, that's fake VS3235. VS3235 is a true clone and you should observe around 270 degrees.

The thin barrel wall does not mean low torque. If you place a genuine Rolex barrel to a VS3235, the minute wheel could be damaged in the first day because of higher torque.

You are correct about the 3235 having a lift angle of 55°. The lift angle used in that timegrapher reading isn't shown though and if 52° was used, it would result in an amplitude reading 10-15° too low. I also agree that a 3235 reading 300 amp at 52° would indicate a problem, since it's true reading at the correct 55° lift angle would be 10-15° higher and 315° is too high. But I don't agree that it immediately implies a fake VS3235, it could just be one with an undesirably high amplitude.

Regarding the mainspring torque, the 3235 mainspring barrel has the same outer diameter as the 3135 but a narrower outer wall (half thickness). This in addition to a thinner, longer spring contributes to the extended power reserve. Then the more efficient escapement (longer, thinner pallets and skeletonized escape wheel) adds additional PR because it needs less torque from the mainspring per tick. The thinner mainspring is by design weaker and delivers the lower torque required.

This is a really good though fairly technical article analyzing the 3235 elements from which the quote is taken.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2021/05/rolex-chronergy-analysis.html

"Chronergy’s improvements claim an improvement in escapement efficiency of 15%. This has two benefits, one being the torque needed to drive the escape wheel can be reduced, which means a less powerful mainspring made up of thinner metal ribbon. That leads to the second benefit, which is a longer power reserve contained the same barrel, since a longer and thinner spring can be accommodated in a given volume."

So I contend that putting a gen 3235 mainspring into a VS3235 should not have any ill effect since both mainsprings already provide approximately the same PR and therefore must have roughly equivalent weaker torque than their 3135 predecessors. A gen mainspring might be inherently stronger than a cheap rep one, but the rep doesn't have the more efficient escapement so it shouldn't be affected by a slightly stronger mainspring if that scenario was presented.

Also the VS3235 could theoretically have its PR increased another 15 percent by fitting it with a gen pallet fork and escape wheel, which I have done on one.

 

[KJ2020]

If I’m understanding correctly, are you saying the torque of a Gen mainspring and barrel can strip the gears in a clone movement? I just installed one in my vr3185 and want to pull it out if this is true. Seems to be running fine.

There is nothing wrong with what you did, assuming you used a gen 3135 mainspring. The discussion at hand pertains to the 3235 mainspring.

 

[mech500]

[/url]
This one looks pretty tan, nothing like yours

Vsf plating does look like this in some lighting.

 

[mrlemonjello]

There is nothing wrong with what you did, assuming you used a gen 3135 mainspring. The discussion at hand pertains to the 3235 mainspring.

Thanks KJ- your knowledge is much appreciated, as always.

 

[shotgun]

Looks good. Is this stock? Or replated?

Stock..

 

[Nikz19]

If I’m understanding correctly, are you saying the torque of a Gen mainspring and barrel can strip the gears in a clone movement? I just installed one in my vr3185 and want to pull it out if this is true. Seems to be running fine.

Absolutely not. I’ve done literally a bunch of clone 31xx services and at least 80% of them got a gen barrel+mainspring replacing.

 

[dbs]

So I contend that putting a gen 3235 mainspring into a VS3235 should not have any ill effect since both mainsprings already provide approximately the same PR and therefore must have roughly equivalent weaker torque than their 3135 predecessors. A gen mainspring might be inherently stronger than a cheap rep one, but the rep doesn't have the more efficient escapement so it shouldn't be affected by a slightly stronger mainspring if that scenario was presented.

I have a VS3235. Two months ago I replaced every part with gen 3235. The only thing I could not be able to replace is:

1) second wheel, can not free spin with Rolex bridge, if keep VS main plate then cannot use Rolex second wheel
2) low (dial side) balance cap jewel, the VS cap jewel is larger than 3235's.
3) main plate, which is nowhere to buy, this caused the above 1) and 2) problem.

When I use Gen barrel and VS minute wheel, the gear immediately slipped around the staff. The Rolex escape and pallet could not swap with VS3235's without adjust escape wheel jewel and pallet stone height. If you do not have Horia tool and pallet stone tool, then should keep VS3235 pallet and escape. There is no obvious difference.

Dial side cap jewel caused a lot of positional variation due to VS weak shock spring. Also, the VS keyless part 3235-231 caused a lot of winding issue. If you feel slip while winding, this has to be replaced.


Short summary: VS3235 is a very well made movement. If you want to achieve Rolex claimed +/-2 second over 1-2 years, the only thing you need replace is balance, balance bridge, and the keyless part 3235-231.

 

[WatchSmith.US]

The thin barrel wall does not mean low torque. If you place a genuine Rolex barrel to a VS3235, the minute wheel could be damaged in the first day because of higher torque.

I put a gen barrel and mainspring (as well as other gen parts) in my vs3235 and it runs perfectly with 71.5 hours power reserve.

 

[KJ2020]

Short summary: VS3235 is a very well made movement. If you want to achieve Rolex claimed +/-2 second over 1-2 years, the only thing you need replace is balance, balance bridge, and the keyless part 3235-231.

I would agree with this. Your issue with the gen mainspring was not because of greater torque though, since it's torque is reduced. Also these rep movements are not all made to the same standards, there are tolerance differences from one sample to the next. I was able to use a gen escape wheel and pallet fork straight away with no adjustment. Another member was not.

I also had a winding issue and was able to re-make the flex washer that sits atop the intermediate winding gear. That part is definitely cheaply made. Also there are a few reports of the setting lever breaking.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...9946206-vs3235-stopped-working-after-2-months

 

[Patekki]

does anyone sell the vsf in the netherlands?

 

[Ylijumala]

does anyone sell the vsf in the netherlands?

Wrong thread for that, buddy.

 

[Gaz1a]

Short summary: VS3235 is a very well made movement. If you want to achieve Rolex claimed +/-2 second over 1-2 years, the only thing you need replace is balance, balance bridge, and the keyless part 3235-231.

Do you need anything else for the installation of those parts? Would you mind listing the part numbers? I’m particularly interested in these mods as I only have a gen auto module at the mo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WatchSmith.US]

I have a VS3235. Two months ago I replaced every part with gen 3235. The only thing I could not be able to replace is:

1) second wheel, can not free spin with Rolex bridge, if keep VS main plate then cannot use Rolex second wheel
2) low (dial side) balance cap jewel, the VS cap jewel is larger than 3235's.
3) main plate, which is nowhere to buy, this caused the above 1) and 2) problem.

When I use Gen barrel and VS minute wheel, the gear immediately slipped around the staff. The Rolex escape and pallet could not swap with VS3235's without adjust escape wheel jewel and pallet stone height. If you do not have Horia tool and pallet stone tool, then should keep VS3235 pallet and escape. There is no obvious difference.

Dial side cap jewel caused a lot of positional variation due to VS weak shock spring. Also, the VS keyless part 3235-231 caused a lot of winding issue. If you feel slip while winding, this has to be replaced.


Short summary: VS3235 is a very well made movement. If you want to achieve Rolex claimed +/-2 second over 1-2 years, the only thing you need replace is balance, balance bridge, and the keyless part 3235-231.

Thank you for your interesting comments. I'm having success with gen barrel and mainspring. I'm also successfully running gen pallet fork and escape wheel on one vs3235 but it wouldn't work on another one. I can't explain why, but I would like to try again at some point. Maybe it was pallet stone height? I don't know.

 

[vipstyle888]

Any issues with VSFs gold plating fading?

 

[StreetFighter]

Any issues with VSFs gold plating fading?

I have a 116618 from VSF. There is a clear coat of some description on top of the gold. It appears to be very durable and it feels great, I'm very impressed with it. Shame the colour of my early one isn't great, later batches were better, no one know what the new ones are like yet.

 

[vipstyle888]

StreetFighter thats great to hear. Probably they applied some kind of ceramic coating to it. Li sent me samples of QC, I dont know if the color looks good or probably its the lighting.

 

[Björn_Ironside]

StreetFighter thats great to hear. Probably they applied some kind of ceramic coating to it. Li sent me samples of QC, I dont know if the color looks good or probably its the lighting.

good friend, I think Li's enlightenment plays against a lot