Translating the readout on the Beat Rate

[Derek Mc]

Hi

Can anyone tell me what the various readings are when you see a beat rate count please

I am looking at the following readings, only one that means anything to me is Beat Rate. Sorry for stupidity but am actually keen to learn!
Rate -6s/d ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Beat Rate 28,800
Amp 297 degrees ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Lift Angle 52.0 degrees
b.e: 0.1m/s ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Period 4s

 

[Ko67]

Hi

Can anyone tell me what the various readings are when you see a beat rate count please

I am looking at the following readings, only one that means anything to me is Beat Rate. Sorry for stupidity but am actually keen to learn!
Rate -6s/d ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Beat Rate 28,800
Amp 297 degrees ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Lift Angle 52.0 degrees
b.e: 0.1m/s ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Period 4s

Here are the basics from memory of my watch school education .

The rate is the error or deviation from the reference beat rate of 28,800, converted to seconds per day (-6 is good for any rep as cosc chronometer standards are -4 to -6)

Amplitude is the total degree of arc circumscribed by a point on the balance during a single tick tock cycle of the escapement . 297 amplitude is good for an automatic watch .

Lift angle is a setting for the machine that is not a finding for your watch. It is complex, but is basically describes the angle of the impulse face of the pallet stone with reference to the escape wheel teeth. 52 is common

Beat error is the error between the two components of an escapement cycle, a tick and a tock. The goal is 0, but anything less than .9 is ok. .1 is fine. 4 second of test time is not enough to measure this accurately

The bad news for your report is that the test period of 4 seconds makes the report really meaningless in my opinion. 4 seconds is not enough of a test period or sample to tell you anything about the performance of the watch . 4 seconds must be a single position and is a too quick of a snapshot to evaluate the regulation of the watch over time. A 28800 bph watch beats 480 times per minute and 8 times per second . Your test measured 32 beats to predict error over 691,200 beats in a 24 hour period .

 

[Alex_P1]

Here are the basics from memory of my watch school education .

The rate is the error or deviation from the reference beat rate of 28,800, converted to seconds per day (-6 is good for any rep as cosc chronometer standards are -4 to -6)

Amplitude is the total degree of arc circumscribed by a point on the balance during a single tick tock cycle of the escapement . 297 amplitude is good for an automatic watch .

Lift angle is a setting for the machine that is not a finding for your watch. It is complex, but is basically describes the angle of the impulse face of the pallet stone with reference to the escape wheel teeth. 52 is common

Beat error is the error between the two components of an escapement cycle, a tick and a tock. The goal is 0, but anything less than .9 is ok. .1 is fine. 4 second of test time is not enough to measure this accurately

The bad news for your report is that the test period of 4 seconds makes the report really meaningless in my opinion. 4 seconds is not enough of a test period or sample to tell you anything about the performance of the watch . 4 seconds must be a single position and is a too quick of a snapshot to evaluate the regulation of the watch over time. A 28800 bph watch beats 480 times per minute and 8 times per second . Your test measured 32 beats to predict error over 691,200 beats in a 24 hour period .

Awesome response! I nearly understand Lift Angle now...

OP, I agree that 4 seconds is nowhere near long enough for a decent reading, some machines will sample for hours to get a good average performance figure.

Not wanting to second guess you, however, such a short sample might be used to convince someone all is well with a poorly performing movement.

 

[Ko67]

Btw, lift angles for movements are available all over the inter web . If you don't know the lift angle, use 52. It will not impact the rate readings if t is wrong, only the amplitude.

 

[Derek Mc]

Guys,

Thank you so very much, I am enquiring about the length of test. The movement is an ETA 2824-2 btw

 

[KBH]

I wouldn't expect much more than that. They are only showing you that the movement is in good working order, which yours is. If you expect it to be fully tested to COSC standards you're going to be very disappointed. The + or - may change a little over time but the beat error and amplitude won't change hardly at all over time. And, of course the beat rate won't change at all.

These guys don't have the time nor the good reason to give you a full reading on every watch they sell.

 

[Derek Mc]

I wouldn't expect much more than that. They are only showing you that the movement is in good working order, which yours is. If you expect it to be fully tested to COSC standards you're going to be very disappointed. The + or - may change a little over time but the beat error and amplitude won't change hardly at all over time. And, of course the beat rate won't change at all.

These guys don't have the time nor the good reason to give you a full reading on every watch they sell.

Thank you, sounds reasonable to me.

Derek

 

[Alex_P1]

I wouldn't expect much more than that. They are only showing you that the movement is in good working order, which yours is. If you expect it to be fully tested to COSC standards you're going to be very disappointed. The + or - may change a little over time but the beat error and amplitude won't change hardly at all over time. And, of course the beat rate won't change at all.

These guys don't have the time nor the good reason to give you a full reading on every watch they sell.

That is a fair point, and I wouldn't expect it tested over 3 days in 6 positions, however, I'd feel more reassured if it was a 60 second sample rather than a 4 second one! Surely they could spare me another 56 seconds if they're going to bother doing the test at all?!

 

[KBH]

No offense Alex, but when does it stop? You want a 60 second reading and when that becomes standard the next guy will want 3 position readings.

A couple of years ago there was no such thing as QC pictures and no such thing as movement testing. You ordered a watch and hoped for the best. Now the TD's here go above and beyond what most Internet sellers do and do you think anyone appreciates the effort? Personally, I think you guys should be thankful for what you've got instead of always expecting more.

"Can I have 6 more pictures? I think the end link's not quite right. My watch is off by 6 seconds, can you find a better one? The logo might be a little off, what do you guys think? Can anybody find anything wrong so I can reject this watch?"

I'd rather commit slow hari-kari and die over 3 days bleeding on my living room floor than be a replica dealer.

 

[Ko67]

I agree, my comments were from a watchmaker's perspective about what i would expect to see concerning a serviced and regulated watch. You should not expect this from a TD at the purchase stage. Don't use the info in my post to make the TD's life harder than jt is. These are criminals we are dealing with.

 

[Derek Mc]

Thanks everyone. Very interesting. I am a very keen amateur and Timegraph equipment is intriguing to me as a new facet to the hobby. KBH you are sooo correct, only a very short time ago, we just went on faith! now we have so much more knowledge and experience to help us.

My own purchase is a CrPO running a 2836, I expect pics to QC it and a timegraph reading of the watch I will be getting! I feel very lucky indeed compared to the good old bad old days!

 

[KBH]

Anyone that collects watches and has more than a few should definitely consider buying a Timegrapher. They are relatively cheap at around $100 and makes life so much easier when you have a watch that needs regulating.

I got a watch last week for next to nothing that had the keyless works screwed up and wouldn't hardly keep time. It took about 10 minutes to make it run within a few seconds a day.

 

[Alex_P1]

No offense Alex, but when does it stop? You want a 60 second reading and when that becomes standard the next guy will want 3 position readings.

A couple of years ago there was no such thing as QC pictures and no such thing as movement testing. You ordered a watch and hoped for the best. Now the TD's here go above and beyond what most Internet sellers do and do you think anyone appreciates the effort? Personally, I think you guys should be thankful for what you've got instead of always expecting more.

"Can I have 6 more pictures? I think the end link's not quite right. My watch is off by 6 seconds, can you find a better one? The logo might be a little off, what do you guys think? Can anybody find anything wrong so I can reject this watch?"

I'd rather commit slow hari-kari and die over 3 days bleeding on my living room floor than be a replica dealer.

Buddy, I don't believe in QC pics or ask for them, nor have I ever received pictures of movement testing. On that score, I totally agree with you.

My comment was more around what's the value in a 4 second reading? My Timegraph can take longer than 4 seconds to "settle" and provide a stable reading, so I meant if you're going to bother to give a reading, why not make it a decent one?

I'm sure soon Noobs will want time-lapse footage of their watch being made in addition to hi-res macro QC pics, Timegraph data and a signature in blood from the person who built the movement to say they did a really good job!

 

[KBH]

Hey Alex, didn't mean to be argumentative. I think it would be nice to at least see the line go all the way across the TG. That only takes about 25 seconds.

From what I've seen on good running fully wound movements there's not much going to be much change but your right in that a old movement or not fully wound will take a while to stabilize.

 

[Alex_P1]

Hey Alex, didn't mean to be argumentative. I think it would be nice to at least see the line go all the way across the TG. That only takes about 25 seconds.

From what I've seen on good running fully wound movements there's not much going to be much change but your right in that a old movement or not fully wound will take a while to stabilize.

We're on exactly the same page my friend!