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Today we tested all the popular SUBs for 904L steel

Hinclimincli

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Wasn't there an expert, someone who works in the metallurgy field, who said on here somewhere that there's no real difference in tooling? And not much difference in price. So yeah, it's basically Rolex with the fake marketing, making us think 904 is better and pricier when neither is especially true.

Every time the “904L is better” debate comes out I end up trying to remember which steel is used on the Patek Philippe Nautilus or the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak...

“Oh, but these are not real tool watches, tool watches NEED to use that mythical 904L steel!”. And then I Google again about the JLC Master Compressor (Navy Seals) or the Omega SpeedMaster Pro (the NASA, no less) and I think “yep, useless bellends, you got scammed with that 304L crap instead of using the better-than-adamantium-and-mythril-combined 904L wonder”.

And then I proceed to spend a €100 premium on a fake-904L fake watch. Because that’s what we do. Collectors! Lovely hobby!”, lol!

PD: Even Jacques Cousteau RECKLESSLY DARED to get INTO the sea with 304L useless pieces of junk from Doxa, Omega or even Rolex (hang on, my head is about to explode now)...
 

Cowboy45

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Every time the “904L is better” debate comes out I end up trying to remember which steel is used on the Patek Philippe Nautilus or the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak...

“Oh, but these are not real tool watches, tool watches NEED to use that mythical 904L steel!”. And then I Google again about the JLC Master Compressor (Navy Seals) or the Omega SpeedMaster Pro (the NASA, no less) and I think “yep, useless bellends, you got scammed with that 304L crap instead of using the better-than-adamantium-and-mythril-combined 904L wonder”.

And then I proceed to spend a €100 premium on a fake-904L fake watch. Because that’s what we do. Collectors! Lovely hobby!”, lol!

PD: Even Jacques Cousteau RECKLESSLY DARED to get INTO the sea with 304L useless pieces of junk from Doxa, Omega or even Rolex (hang on, my head is about to explode now)...
This made me laugh! Its true. People here "316 steel sucks"!!!

Makes me wonder what patek or ap would think to see a rep forum bashing 316 hahaha.

On the flip side it is crap to falsely advertise something so i get that point 100%.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

Dissemination

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Throughout my internet travels, I have made friends with a jeweler, I guess you could say, in China who is very familiar in terms of working with rep metals. He likes frankens, works with replica factories, etc. Its interesting talking with someone who is into the same thing we are... but with a very, let's say, different perspective. Lol. He has insights into things we never talk about on this forum, and simply doesn't understand why we talk about half the things we do talk about here such as what "type" of steel is used. In his words: "Why? Why matter? All that matters is how it lasts!! If it polishes right!!" (Polish seems to be the blanket term for metal work, in this case, "brushing").

I have learned two things from my friend: I appreciate his enthusiasm even when I'm not sure if he's yelling at me for being OCD. And that ARF so far is the only factory that passes his standards. He even called out ZZF well before the not 904l made headlines here. I am curious about his opinions on some of the new factories' subs so we'll see if anything floats his boat.

Anyways, that's just my anecdotal 2 cents. Other reputable metal workers such as Tomrep have adamantly stated 904l vs 316l is basically marketing and little else. But I'm sure this is no surprise to most of us, nor surprising that ARF is considered the best.

I couldn't care less about what type of steel it is, as long as tolerances are good and it can be brushed and polished "artisinally." Furthermore, the bracelet on my Ginault sub-homage is 316l and is literally my favorite bracelet ever. And I have gen Rolex too (no sub tho which would be the direct comparison in all fairness).

Interested to see what Angus reports back with nonetheless.
 

BOSSK

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Throughout my internet travels, I have made friends with a jeweler, I guess you could say, in China who is very familiar in terms of working with rep metals. He likes frankens, works with replica factories, etc. Its interesting talking with someone who is into the same thing we are... but with a very, let's say, different perspective. Lol. He has insights into things we never talk about on this forum, and simply doesn't understand why we talk about half the things we do talk about here such as what "type" of steel is used. In his words: "Why? Why matter? All that matters is how it lasts!! If it polishes right!!" (Polish seems to be the blanket term for metal work, in this case, "brushing").

I have learned two things from my friend: I appreciate his enthusiasm even when I'm not sure if he's yelling at me for being OCD. And that ARF so far is the only factory that passes his standards. He even called out ZZF well before the not 904l made headlines here. I am curious about his opinions on some of the new factories' subs so we'll see if anything floats his boat.

Anyways, that's just my anecdotal 2 cents. Other reputable metal workers such as Tomrep have adamantly stated 904l vs 316l is basically marketing and little else. But I'm sure this is no surprise to most of us, nor surprising that ARF is considered the best.

I couldn't care less about what type of steel it is, as long as tolerances are good and it can be brushed and polished "artisinally." Furthermore, the bracelet on my Ginault sub-homage is 316l and is literally my favorite bracelet ever. And I have gen Rolex too (no sub tho which would be the direct comparison in all fairness).

Interested to see what Angus reports back with nonetheless.

Great post! I’d certainly love to hear more about your friends insights and perspectives into the rep industry!
 
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Dissemination

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Great post! I’d certainly love to hear more about your friends insights and perspectives into the rep industry!

Its more of a different perspective really. Its little nuances that come up in conversation, nothing major comes to mind... my main point is that being on this forum, the way information and ideas are presented and how these perspectives take a hold and are disseminated (lol) are unique. For most of us, myself included, the rep world (and the gen world actually) is naturally esoteric. Sometimes there isn't a lot of first-hand knowledge so our ideas can be based on other's perspectives based on someone else's opinion to do with somebody's experience. But being that that is still often the most stable ground to stand on, we accept it as true.

So thats my long winded way of saying when I talk to him about certain things that I take as a given/common knowledge, he's just baffled lol. Albeit sometimes translation is certainly a factor. And other times he has a solution which I've never seen discussed here, such as using a 3135 movement for franken Dj41s. He also strongly feels that ARF is the way to go for pretty much any Sub or Gmt or YM franken due to being able to readily accept Gen parts, and doesn't understand our obsession with the case. I only half agree here tho. I think he values cost effectiveness and compatibility and reliability over "perfection." Generally, too many gen parts and rep parts mixed = more points of failure.

Everything else is more subtle and nuanced, or at least nothing comes to mind immediately. Also, don't mean to totally detract from what this thread is actually about.
 

marco130

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Nearly 2 months since the tease of the review and at least 6-10 or more additional Subs from different makers (VRF, V6F, GF (Green-126xxx), ARF....WTF?) all advertising 904. Personally I don’t care what grade of steel is used, I just want the review from Angus on the differences in the models.
I’ve only been in this hobby for about 13 years but I’ve never seen this degree of competition especially on an iconic model such as the Sub. What a great time to be in the market to buy a Submariner.
So please Angus post your review. I’ve already ordered an LV and an LN but I don’t have a problem ordering a couple of extras.
 
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Timewellspent

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Nearly 2 months since the tease of the review and at least 6-10 or more additional Subs from different makers (VRF, V6F, GF (Green-126xxx), ARF....WTF?) all advertising 904. Personally I don’t care what grade of steel is used, I just want the review from Angus on the differences in the models.
I’ve only been in this hobby for about 13 years but I’ve never seen this degree of competition especially on an iconic model such as the Sub. What a great time to be in the market to buy a Submariner.
So please Angus post your review. I’ve already ordered an LV and an LN but I don’t have a problem ordering a couple of extras.

I completely agree I’ve been in the forum off and on for a while never seen the competition/ quality in these sub reps. I have to give credit where it’s due, arf was raising the bar for all other factories and they’ve responded well creating even better reps than the last factory.

What a time to be in the rep world
 

rolexppapfan

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puretime are we going to see a review or not? If you are not going to make a review can you please inform us so we don't have to wait for nothing?
 

rolexppapfan

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I mean we alredy got a 41 mm sub from the Green Maker and we are still waiting for the 116610 review.
 

Jayalvin777

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I was investigating on wechat about new releases when I came across a seller that did a metal test on the zf and vs. Zf is full 904L, while vsf crown and clasp are 316l beside those parts everything is 904l, I lost the link but once I find it again will post it. Don't exactly know how reliable is this source but just want to share the information I found. Would be awesome if someone from the forum can test those parts of the vsf.
​​
 
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mari115

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I was investigating on wechat about new releases when I came across a seller that did a metal test on the zf and vs. Zf is full 904L, while vsf crown and clasp are 316l beside those parts everything is 904l, I lost the link but once I find it again will post it. Don't exactly know how reliable is this source but just want to share the information I found. Would be awesome if someone from the forum can test those parts of the vsf.
​​

Very nice, i've asked multiple times but no one replies to me, can any owner of a VSF try and see if the clasp is a different color compared to the rest of the watch?
 

Jayalvin777

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Very nice, i've asked multiple times but no one replies to me, can any owner of a VSF try and see if the clasp is a different color compared to the rest of the watch?

In my own opinion and trusting my eyes lol, the clasp looks like the same color compared to the rest of the watch. My vsf is currently with interaktiv, I should get it back this week, once it does I will take some photos of the clasp in different light conditions, maybe the metal experts can weight in. Maybe you can ask on the gen vs vsf comparison thread for some claps photos.
 
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Yogibear

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ZaE4aK.jpg
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I was investigating on wechat about new releases when I came across a seller that did a metal test on the zf and vs. Zf is full 904L, while vsf crown and clasp are 316l beside those parts everything is 904l, I lost the link but once I find it again will post it. Don't exactly know how reliable is this source but just want to share the information I found. Would be awesome if someone from the forum can test those parts of the vsf.
​​

That's what Angus confirmed me with. Exactly that^... also he said ZZF v3 is all 316l.
 

Jayalvin777

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That's what Angus confirmed me with. Exactly that^... also he said ZZF v3 is all 316l.

I wonder why he went quite. Would be major blow for zzf sales if they brought out two full 316l watches back to back. I would be curious to see a zzf metal test, will continue searching tomorrow if I find something will post it.
 
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Tete

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Very nice, i've asked multiple times but no one replies to me, can any owner of a VSF try and see if the clasp is a different color compared to the rest of the watch?

exactly the same color, same brushing, same shine. There's no difference