daytona4me said:
Ouch... least favorite brand? How is that possible? :shock:
How can you not like Rolex?
Weirdo.
:mrgreen:
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The NoobMariner: Is it still available, or not?
- Thread starter trailboss99
- Start date
Ouch... least favorite brand? How is that possible? :shock:
How can you not like Rolex?
Weirdo.
:mrgreen:
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Thanks BT for the history lesson. We need to gather that sort of stuff in one easy to find place. The whos ay wheres of our little hobby are wofully undocumented.
That is the most complete history of the noob factory I have seen. Shure, all that was proberly somplace but not all in one place. We know surprisingly little about the makers of our reps (to be expected considering the nature of the game) and finding out what we DO know is allmost impossible. I for one would like to see that change.
Still no description of exactly what the changes in the noob are or when they happened. All i have so far is :it ain't the same" but little fact to back this up. Shurly someone knows when the case changed and how? Yeah, I know, I don't want much but I find it important that statements are backd up by quantifiable fact and I like to know a timeline for this sort of thing. Sorta like pics or it didn't happen
Regards, Col.
That is the most complete history of the noob factory I have seen. Shure, all that was proberly somplace but not all in one place. We know surprisingly little about the makers of our reps (to be expected considering the nature of the game) and finding out what we DO know is allmost impossible. I for one would like to see that change.
Still no description of exactly what the changes in the noob are or when they happened. All i have so far is :it ain't the same" but little fact to back this up. Shurly someone knows when the case changed and how? Yeah, I know, I don't want much but I find it important that statements are backd up by quantifiable fact and I like to know a timeline for this sort of thing. Sorta like pics or it didn't happen
Regards, Col.
Ok i think I understand exactly what it is you want to know. I will draw off my Noobnoir Tales posts and the 15 'Noobfactory' watches I have seen over the course of two years. Several came from the same dealers so there shouldn't be any differences. At least not in those right? Wrong...
The CGs have variied wildly from square to pointed to flat to round.
Variances of up to .25mm in crystal height.
Five distinctly different crown tubes.
Six distinctly different crowns.
Case height differences ranging between 10mm and 11.50mm
Caseback height differences ranging between 2mm and 3mm
Four different bezels
weight varainces of up to 8 grams
seven different dials
four different movements
An assortment of bracelets some hollow, some not, some polished on the sides, some not.
Rehauts ranging from shallow to wokky.
Does that answer your question a little better?
The CGs have variied wildly from square to pointed to flat to round.
Variances of up to .25mm in crystal height.
Five distinctly different crown tubes.
Six distinctly different crowns.
Case height differences ranging between 10mm and 11.50mm
Caseback height differences ranging between 2mm and 3mm
Four different bezels
weight varainces of up to 8 grams
seven different dials
four different movements
An assortment of bracelets some hollow, some not, some polished on the sides, some not.
Rehauts ranging from shallow to wokky.
Does that answer your question a little better?
wow thats crazy. I had no idea it was that bad. There must be all sorts of factories pumping these things out. I knew the noobmariner Asian copy and gen ETA case were slightly different but i had no idea there were that many differences.
Tell me about it. That's mainly what made me write those two atricles and why I get so aggravated anytime I hear F520117. I don't care what anyone says. I KNOW they are not coming from the same factory. Whatever that watch was is long gone.
Dizzy said:
Noobmariner was sold with ETA & Asian movement and it was exactly the same case. bklm sold this, TTK sold it, PT & Narikaa sold it, Eurotimez sold it, Andrew sold it. I have even owned the Noobmariner in both ETA and Asian. ZERO difference.
Maybe they changed the case later but it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I've seen those wokky POS Subs that look like they have the same dial, but I seriously doubt the same factory would downgrade their model from good to utter crap. Perhaps they have sold the dials in bulk to another factory who installed them into those crap wok-Subs.
bklm and Eurotimez can still source the good ones, so someone must be still producing them. Perhaps they could enlighten us more.
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DAmn, I read Fakey's post and thought BINGO! Thats exactly the info I wanted and then BT comes along and rains all over it
Sounds like the "gen" Noob may still exist after all. I must admit, mine is a year old and looks exactly the same as the ones in reviews from '06.
Maybe things just don't show up in pics that well.
Col.
Sounds like the "gen" Noob may still exist after all. I must admit, mine is a year old and looks exactly the same as the ones in reviews from '06.
Maybe things just don't show up in pics that well.
Col.
I have no facts about the factories... just guesses. I only know the good models when I see them.
Just think about it: If a factory has a good bestseller Sub case + production line ready, why would they create a second production line to make another, very much inferior watch? That doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, Chinese rep business is weird but I doubt it's that weird.
Just think about it: If a factory has a good bestseller Sub case + production line ready, why would they create a second production line to make another, very much inferior watch? That doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, Chinese rep business is weird but I doubt it's that weird.
Here's where I think the whole thing gets muddled. The watches with the variances listed above all had one thing in common. They were all called Noobfactory and they al had the F serial number on them. This means that just because a case has the Fseries number stamped on it does not mean it came from the same place. With that put to bed I'll say this. I am not saying there isn't one case that could be considered a Noobfactory and/or is as close as it could be to the original. But that would be it. The 'Noobfactory watch' as a whole meaning the original as it was (exact combination of dial, movement, hands, bracelet, etc.) is gone. There will always be differences of some kind.
God using the word Noobfactory so many times in one post has made me ill. :roll:
God using the word Noobfactory so many times in one post has made me ill. :roll:
fakemaster said:
How is it "gone" if bklm1234 can continuously get the same old models? I have no idea if Eurotimez is even around anymore, but he was able to supply the good ones too.
The great black "Noob" Explorer II has been in production for 4 years now... they only upgraded the 24h hand (and bezel numbers 2 years ago). Still available through bk and ET, continuously. King and Paul can only get the inferior version (99% likely from another factory) with worse dial and wrong cyclops/date combo.
The "BK Sub" and "BK YM" are the same old Noob watches with ETA movements.
If some dealers can't get them, it doesn't mean these reps aren't produced any more. I don't care who sells and what, but it's heartbreaking to see new members buying crappy Rolex reps when the good ones are still available for pretty much the same money. I think the Asian versions of Sub and YM still have great sales potential. You should try to find the source for these watches.
Heres a picture by Pugwash i believe it was... Both noobmariners.. identical except for the rehaut depth.. ETA was 1.8mm deep and Asian was 1.9mm deep.
You can see the slight difference in the two pictures. I have confirmed this also with my ETA noobmariner and an Asian movement Noobmariner i had a few yrs ago. Rehaut depth was slightly different but crown position seemed to be the same. im not sure what kind of asian movement my watch had. I never looked into it but it was definatly not the same as the gold ETA.
You can see the slight difference in the two pictures. I have confirmed this also with my ETA noobmariner and an Asian movement Noobmariner i had a few yrs ago. Rehaut depth was slightly different but crown position seemed to be the same. im not sure what kind of asian movement my watch had. I never looked into it but it was definatly not the same as the gold ETA.
The weak point of these "Noob" watches have always been the SELs. There can be big differences in fit. Some bracelets have "rounded" and badly fitting SELs. Some are very good... it's pretty much a luck of the draw what you receive.
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Hey thanks everyone. It looks like we're finaly getting to the bottom of this. Very interesting info from everyone. It appears that the "gen" noob does still exist basicly unchanged after all. I'll be! Well that's good news at any rate. I doubt there is a more confuseing watch around than the tangle of sub reps, especialy the low end ones. A hell of a lot out there being passed off as things they are not. More LWLs.
One Blk And one LV. Real live gen noobs from the sounds of it. If the winner is ok with the idea I am prepared to have Chris ship one of them to a reviewer with experiance in Noobs to have a looky at and settle this once and for all before sending it on to it's new home. Chris was also prepared to have his WM strip a porto for us if Fransisco couldn't get his hands on one. By the time CNY was over and his guy back on deck it was done and dusted. Stay tuned for some big news from Chris very soon. He has been a very busy chap in the last few mths belive me. Thsi is the reason we havn't had him arround much but that will change shortly.
Thanks fellas.
Reagrds, Col.
Yes BT he most certainly is! In fact he has donated a pair of his Noobs for the Great Inter-fora Raffle ©
One Blk And one LV. Real live gen noobs from the sounds of it. If the winner is ok with the idea I am prepared to have Chris ship one of them to a reviewer with experiance in Noobs to have a looky at and settle this once and for all before sending it on to it's new home. Chris was also prepared to have his WM strip a porto for us if Fransisco couldn't get his hands on one. By the time CNY was over and his guy back on deck it was done and dusted. Stay tuned for some big news from Chris very soon. He has been a very busy chap in the last few mths belive me. Thsi is the reason we havn't had him arround much but that will change shortly.
Thanks fellas.
Reagrds, Col.
All very interesting but of what practical value to a noobie who has read By-Tors great reviews and is trying to buy that same rep for about 100USD? I guess the noobie's only option is Eurotimez. Bklm1234 will mod the "noob" and charge 300 to 400USD. That's fine, but it no longer is a $100 watch. If the noobie goes to other dealers asking for a noobfactory watch, he is going to receive one of the variations seen by Fakemaster. Even finding watches with that case number won't help a noobie because all the watches seen by Fakemaster had the same case number. Dealers can be lying, the noobfactory can be selling its defective cases to other factories, other case producers can simply be stamping the "noob" number on their cases and there is no way we can know. Actually, there is a real variation of the product produced by any factory and the only way to accurately measure the range of that variation is to examine a statistically significant sample of products produced by that factory. We all understand this when it comes to cars off the assembly line; some are better than others off the very same line built on the same day. This may mean someone has to purchase and examine 100 watches from the noobfactory to accurately determine the real variance coming out of that factory. And first one has to be able to guarantee that all the watches were produced by the same factory in the first place. It is just not going to happen. So for all practical purposed to a noobie the noobfactory is an illusion. He cannot order a noobfactory watch from a dealer and reasonably expect to receive the same great $100 watch reviewed by By-Tor. The one exception may be ordering from Eurotimez. But has anyone ordered 100 "noobmariners" from Eurotimez and checked the variations? I don't think so.
I think the biggest problem is that most dealers don't have a friggin' clue what they're selling. Some of the Rolex reps are so bad that even a blind man would laugh at them... still dealers are having this garbage in their stock. Put a high price tag, call the wokky POS a "Perfect Sub" and lots of clueless noobs will buy it like hotcakes.
I often wonder this... why do some noobs still buy that junk and don't bother to read the reviews/make any research? Pretty much all best sports Rolex models have been reviewed to death. I've been trying to do that myself.
I can wholeheartedly recommend bklm1234 for every single Rolex replica out there. He knows exactly what he's selling. He's a passionate Rolex fan and collector (besides being a dealer/modder). It makes a big difference. He gets the absolute best version of every damn modern Rolex rep. It's simple as that: ExpII, GMT, GMTIIc, WM9 Sub & YM, etc. Eurotimez too (when he gets back).
I have never made a DIME out of this hobby, so I can be 100% objective about this... I really want the members to buy the best versions. That has always been the purpose of my reviews... to lead new users to buy good reps and avoid junk.
If some dealer (ANY dealer) can get the real Asian Noob YM and Sub in their stock, I'm more than happy to "promote" his sales exactly the same way. Just like Donald says, there is a big demand for these cheaper quality reps... not everyone wants to put $500 on a WM9. Just don't buy from dealers who are not "rep WIS" if you catch my drift. King and Paul are decent people, but they're totally clueless about the different models most of the time. Chinese dealers will say anything and agree everything, to just get your money in. I wouldn't trust their "knowledge".
Just like in that GMTIIc case (when a dealer was claiming that his cheap ass version was the "same as the Ultimate version")... I will continue to call out these bullshitters for the benefit of membership. Here I'm not a moderator, just a fellow hobbyist/collector.
I often wonder this... why do some noobs still buy that junk and don't bother to read the reviews/make any research? Pretty much all best sports Rolex models have been reviewed to death. I've been trying to do that myself.
I can wholeheartedly recommend bklm1234 for every single Rolex replica out there. He knows exactly what he's selling. He's a passionate Rolex fan and collector (besides being a dealer/modder). It makes a big difference. He gets the absolute best version of every damn modern Rolex rep. It's simple as that: ExpII, GMT, GMTIIc, WM9 Sub & YM, etc. Eurotimez too (when he gets back).
I have never made a DIME out of this hobby, so I can be 100% objective about this... I really want the members to buy the best versions. That has always been the purpose of my reviews... to lead new users to buy good reps and avoid junk.
If some dealer (ANY dealer) can get the real Asian Noob YM and Sub in their stock, I'm more than happy to "promote" his sales exactly the same way. Just like Donald says, there is a big demand for these cheaper quality reps... not everyone wants to put $500 on a WM9. Just don't buy from dealers who are not "rep WIS" if you catch my drift. King and Paul are decent people, but they're totally clueless about the different models most of the time. Chinese dealers will say anything and agree everything, to just get your money in. I wouldn't trust their "knowledge".
Just like in that GMTIIc case (when a dealer was claiming that his cheap ass version was the "same as the Ultimate version")... I will continue to call out these bullshitters for the benefit of membership. Here I'm not a moderator, just a fellow hobbyist/collector.
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Donald:
Firstly not every thread is aimed directly at noobies. This is one of them that isn't.
The way these cases (and we are primarily discussing the case variations here) are made there should be little difference over even a hundred cases. CNC milling equipment enshures that unless changes are made to the program each and every one is the same. Thats what you get from a quarter million plus of computer controlled mill. It's not like somthing assembeled by hand. Shure, there are issues in the assembly stages but that applies to all reps unless they come from folk like Eurotimez who chk each and every one. What we are on about here is a major change in the case of the watch case. The error in a CNC mill is in the order of half a poofteenth of a mm not the couple of mm plus we are discussing here. Same applies to crown guards. Anything that can be seen by eye is a change in programing or factory not a machineing error.
Col.
Firstly not every thread is aimed directly at noobies. This is one of them that isn't.
The way these cases (and we are primarily discussing the case variations here) are made there should be little difference over even a hundred cases. CNC milling equipment enshures that unless changes are made to the program each and every one is the same. Thats what you get from a quarter million plus of computer controlled mill. It's not like somthing assembeled by hand. Shure, there are issues in the assembly stages but that applies to all reps unless they come from folk like Eurotimez who chk each and every one. What we are on about here is a major change in the case of the watch case. The error in a CNC mill is in the order of half a poofteenth of a mm not the couple of mm plus we are discussing here. Same applies to crown guards. Anything that can be seen by eye is a change in programing or factory not a machineing error.
Col.
@donald: Narikaa was able to get the good Asian Noob YM & Sub just recently. He called them "Nymphomariners".
Perhaps he could be your source for the $100-something good Asian versions?
Perhaps he could be your source for the $100-something good Asian versions?
Trailboss99. Correct, the CNC machinery should be producing practically identical cases. So how do you account for the different measurements Fakemaster took on cases all with the same serial number and all represented by dealers to be noobfactory watches? Unless Fakemaster is unable to read his gauge correctly, there must be different factories producing different cases with the same number. Also, putting different dials in cases with the same number. If so, the number is no longer a guarantee of having the right case. So how does anyone, noobie or not, know they are ordering the real deal? Just have to trust the dealer, I guess. Just have to order, take your chances and carefully examine what you receive. An expert can do that, a noobie cannot. That is my point. The label "noobmariner" or "noobfactory" is an illusion for a noobie because he is unable to have any assurance he actually received the watch he intended to order. He just has to become more educated and all the posts, especially the pictures, do help greatly. Whether you are a noobie or an expert it would be nice if you could order an advertized "noobfactory" watch and have assurance you received the same watch as reviewed on these boards. I also hear the "noobfactory" won't sell parts so your only choice is to buy the complete watch, even if you only wanted the case or the dial to use in a project.
By-Tor. Thanks, Eurotimez says he can get the real "noobfactory" watches also. I have ordered from him in the past, his service has been good and his product seems to be the "real deal" to the best of my ability to discern and I have ordered more from him. So far as I know those are the only two who can be trusted to deliver a real $100 "noob" watch. It should not be so. I feel sorry for all the people, noobs or not, who read a great review and then try to purchase that watch.
My suggested solution to all this confusion is for a dealer to plainly identify "noobfactory" watches on his website, link to reviews and then plainly state he guarantees to deliver the same watch. Do you know of any dealer who does so? I don't. Maybe it will exit tomorrow but I don't find it today.
By-Tor. Thanks, Eurotimez says he can get the real "noobfactory" watches also. I have ordered from him in the past, his service has been good and his product seems to be the "real deal" to the best of my ability to discern and I have ordered more from him. So far as I know those are the only two who can be trusted to deliver a real $100 "noob" watch. It should not be so. I feel sorry for all the people, noobs or not, who read a great review and then try to purchase that watch.
My suggested solution to all this confusion is for a dealer to plainly identify "noobfactory" watches on his website, link to reviews and then plainly state he guarantees to deliver the same watch. Do you know of any dealer who does so? I don't. Maybe it will exit tomorrow but I don't find it today.
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Oh I hear you mate. The term "noobfactory" meens nothing anymore without trust in your dealer and research, research, research. Certain dealers appear to be calling allmost any cheap sub a noob-somthing nowdays. The best way is to post here in terms like "About to pull the trigger on a NM from XXXX. Who has one from him?" and then ask lots of questions of those who respond (or just buy it from Eurotimez). This becomes even more important if you're about to shell out for a TT sub or YM 'cause as BT stated there are/were three grades of gold noobs and nothing is more useless than a cheaply plated TT or FG, I have my eye on a TT, blue dial noob sub and if the dollar ever inproves it's next after a Discovery Panda. Or maybe first, realy going to have flip a coin on that one.
Looks like the MVT in the toture test noob has filaly given up the ghost so it's a new inards for that first.
The most important thing a noobie can do is lots or reading here and at the other fora then ask lots of questions untill they are armed with the info he needs to buy with confidence. That meens learning as much as he/she can about the watch the're interested in as well as the dealer he intends to buy from. Buyer beware is the name of the rep game, allways was, allways will be.
Col.
Looks like the MVT in the toture test noob has filaly given up the ghost so it's a new inards for that first.
The most important thing a noobie can do is lots or reading here and at the other fora then ask lots of questions untill they are armed with the info he needs to buy with confidence. That meens learning as much as he/she can about the watch the're interested in as well as the dealer he intends to buy from. Buyer beware is the name of the rep game, allways was, allways will be.
Col.
Sorry I'm late to the thread. I think you can trust me on this topic. I have worked on/modded/sold over hundreds noobfactory watches (sub, ym, gmt, exp1, exp2, daytona, ssd, gmt-iic, DSSD v3). I go to my suppliers in China 3-4 times a year and I have a buyer in China doing sourcing for me. I know this factory quite well.
I started the term "noobfactory". Facts:
- it's one factory that makes all these F520117 serial rollies
- it co-owned and backed by some GuangZhou government officials. Various words in the street include it's co-owned by the Police, Customs, etc. Point is it has strong background. Not easily clamped down like other smaller operations. It's rich and powerful and arrogant more and more so.
- variance exists because they are reps not because there are multiple factories making these watches
- they are still making all the F520117 serial rollies. This factory loves using 117 in the serial number. You can find 117 on the SSD.
- they also make the SSD, GMT-IIC, DSSD v3 (v1 and v2 of the DSSD wasn't even made by the noobfactory)
- Unique crystal construction. This factory does a half-baked job copying the gen crystal, except on the exp2 and daytona which it copies 100% gen. The crystal has really close-to-gen frontal view but it lacks the complete look.
My last point, the noobfactory makes good stuff. On the newer models like gmt-iic and dssd v3, the quality of fit is better than that of their F520117 rollies. The SELs fit extremely well between the lugs for example. This factory doesn't copy 1:1 though, unlike how wm9 does it. It's a tradeoff of cost and closeness to gen, always.
-bk
I started the term "noobfactory". Facts:
- it's one factory that makes all these F520117 serial rollies
- it co-owned and backed by some GuangZhou government officials. Various words in the street include it's co-owned by the Police, Customs, etc. Point is it has strong background. Not easily clamped down like other smaller operations. It's rich and powerful and arrogant more and more so.
- variance exists because they are reps not because there are multiple factories making these watches
- they are still making all the F520117 serial rollies. This factory loves using 117 in the serial number. You can find 117 on the SSD.
- they also make the SSD, GMT-IIC, DSSD v3 (v1 and v2 of the DSSD wasn't even made by the noobfactory)
- Unique crystal construction. This factory does a half-baked job copying the gen crystal, except on the exp2 and daytona which it copies 100% gen. The crystal has really close-to-gen frontal view but it lacks the complete look.
My last point, the noobfactory makes good stuff. On the newer models like gmt-iic and dssd v3, the quality of fit is better than that of their F520117 rollies. The SELs fit extremely well between the lugs for example. This factory doesn't copy 1:1 though, unlike how wm9 does it. It's a tradeoff of cost and closeness to gen, always.
-bk