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The AP questions thread (All the questions you want to ask about AP but were afraid to)

Pater_Pen

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Hi @legend: which royal oak offshore diver do you consider the best atm?

The ZF 15703 version or even the more recent ones with the clone movements?
Best
 

legend

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Hi @legend: which royal oak offshore diver do you consider the best atm?

The ZF 15703 version or even the more recent ones with the clone movements?
Best
Personally, yes of course the diver line will be better than the ROO chrono line in terms of accuracy and reliability.
If hybrids are counted, I will say a ZF15703 with a 2836 movement and modern font datewheel (both movement and datewheel from the XF 15706 or 15707). With the closed caseback, and an optional lowbeat conversion, it will make the ZF15703 indistinguishable from gen even upon off the wrist casual inspection (meaning without the caseback removed)
A close second would naturally be the XF15706, which is not available anymore. The reason I place this behind the ZF15703 is because the dive bezel numbers aren't as accurate as the ZF1503. This is my personal opinion. Others may vary.
 

Pater_Pen

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Personally, yes of course the diver line will be better than the ROO chrono line in terms of accuracy and reliability.
If hybrids are counted, I will say a ZF15703 with a 2836 movement and modern font datewheel (both movement and datewheel from the XF 15706 or 15707). With the closed caseback, and an optional lowbeat conversion, it will make the ZF15703 indistinguishable from gen even upon off the wrist casual inspection (meaning without the caseback removed)
A close second would naturally be the XF15706, which is not available anymore. The reason I place this behind the ZF15703 is because the dive bezel numbers aren't as accurate as the ZF1503. This is my personal opinion. Others may vary.


Thanks!
But isnt for example the JF version considered a Super-Rep? (At least on the consensual list) Or do you consider the "normal" royal oaks (15500 ZF etc.) to be better reps and closer to the gen?

Because currently im in between two reps (calatrava sector dial and the ROO diver ) with gens beeing around 20-30tk Euros (a price range i can pull of :) )?

Is the JF version still considered Super-Rep?


vs


or even the 15710 with open caseback?

Thanks in advance!
 

j21

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Thanks!
But isnt for example the JF version considered a Super-Rep? (At least on the consensual list) Or do you consider the "normal" royal oaks (15500 ZF etc.) to be better reps and closer to the gen?

Because currently im in between two reps (calatrava sector dial and the ROO diver ) with gens beeing around 20-30tk Euros (a price range i can pull of :) )?

Is the JF version still considered Super-Rep?


vs


or even the 15710 with open caseback?

Thanks in advance!
The list is a little outdated tbh, but a very nice work and a good guide when starting

If you are interesting for the Diver that is looking closer to the gen reference, this is the zf 15703
Closed casebacks are always a plus when we are talking for rep movements

If you are interested for 15500 then again go with zf, it has better hands dial dw.from the apsf at this reference, stick to.blue and black dial as the white-grey are actually very bad
 

legend

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Thanks!
But isnt for example the JF version considered a Super-Rep? (At least on the consensual list) Or do you consider the "normal" royal oaks (15500 ZF etc.) to be better reps and closer to the gen?

Because currently im in between two reps (calatrava sector dial and the ROO diver ) with gens beeing around 20-30tk Euros (a price range i can pull of :) )?

Is the JF version still considered Super-Rep?


vs


or even the 15710 with open caseback?

Thanks in advance!

There are many things wrong with what you said.
Now firstly you need to realize that I do not believe in or prescribe to the list nor hold it as the benchmark of how good reps are. I make my own list and I decide what is good for myself (but never for others) Secondly, what defines "consensual" in this case? 10 people agreeing to the reps listed? 100? 1000? 100% of the forum? Next, forget the term "super rep". This is subjective and just because someone else thinks a rep is "super", that it is super for you. That is a fallacy as we each can accept different flaws and not accept others.
The JF diver isn't as good as the ZF's in my opinion, but I will not call either a "super rep". Reps are reps and gens are gens. Just as there is no "super gen", there is not "super rep" either. I have given you my opinion on what I consider to be the best. Feel free to disagree and source your own, because at the end of the day, different reps suit different people and you should decide what is best for you, and not leave that decision to anyone who authored an arbitrary list, or even me. I cannot be deciding on what is best for you. However accurate a rep looks to be, it is still not a genuine luxury watch, but a watch which resembles one on the wrist. Don't worry about tells, because you will always know that the watch is a replica no matter how it appears to be genuine to others. You will always know.
So if you like the JF diver, you do not need someone else to validate it for you. Why care about any list? Who wrote the list and what is the knowledge level of the person with regard to the specific watch you like? It is infinitely more helpful for you to do your own research if you are keen on a watch and YOU decide on whether to buy it. Not because someone else says so. I do not believe in consensual lists or super reps and if you do, that is fine but make your own assessment. If you do not have enough knowledge, then read and learn and decide when you have gained enough knowledge.
I consider the ZF 15500 V3 to be one of the best AP replicas no matter what anyone says. But remember at the end of the day that it is just my opinion and it is still a rep no matter how anyone tries to elevate it. You need to decide what you want on your wrist ultimately: something you want to wear and admire for yourself? Something to fool your friends into believing you own an AP? Something to wear while you keep your gens safely tucked away? All individual reasons and you decide what works for you. We have guys asking about which watches are the most "gen like" and I always wonder about the rationale of such a question. The fact is the wearer will always know that the watch is a replica no matter how "gen like" it looks... and so I can only assume the unspoken question to actually be "how gen like will this watch appear to others when I wear it on the wrist?" This is also not a very meaningful question if you examine it. In order for the watch to be perceived as genuine, the wearer plays a more significant role than the watch for me. Put a gen 18K rose gold 15500 on a hobo for example, and the watch will be seen as a rep or stolen goods, no matter that it is actually 100% accurate and 1:1. The thing is most guys asking that question tend to remove themselves from consideration when asking that question but the watch forms part of the person, and watch and wearer will be perceived holistically by those who know.

So yes, I have given you my opinion. If you think the JF diver is the best, because it is on some list, then go for it, and as long as you are happy with it and can carry it off well, I do not see the issue be it an old Noob diver, a JF, a ZF or even a DHgate release. So in order to answer the unspoken questions you have meaningfully, I will ask you what is it you are looking for in a watch, and how do you hope for it to be perceived by both yourself and people happening to glance upon it?
 

Pater_Pen

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Thanks,
yeah i will stick to the ROO Diver with closed caseback.
To be frank, the 15500 with a gen price tag of around 40-50.000 Euro would not be suitable for my lifestyle (yet :) ), and a ROO diver fits perfectly. And in my opinion the biggest tell of a rep is the life circumstances youre in :).


Thanks again!
 

j21

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Thanks,
yeah i will stick to the ROO Diver with closed caseback.
To be frank, the 15500 with a gen price tag of around 40-50.000 Euro would not be suitable for my lifestyle (yet :) ), and a ROO diver fits perfectly. And in my opinion the biggest tell of a rep is the life circumstances youre in :).


Thanks again!
Buy and wear whatever makes you happy
If you like the 15500 more buy that
 
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160million

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1. @j21 is knowledgeable enough to answer most questions asked in this thread. Terms like “experts” and “wizards” are always subjective I think.

2. Can I know what you mean by cream dials as applied to AP dials? Can you show an example for us to understand better thank you.
check out this picture here:
iu
 

W47chl0v3r

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check out this picture here:
iu

That dial is specifically made to look that color. Discoloration happens on old dials sometimes due to exposure to sunlight and wear over time. In that case the color turns into a rustic brownish yellow which in my opinion isn’t that good looking.
 
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W47chl0v3r

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That dial is specifically made to look that color. Discoloration happens on old dials sometimes due to exposure to sunlight and wear over time. In that case the color turns into a rustic brownish yellow which in my opinion isn’t that good looking.

 

W47chl0v3r

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When you can get something like this salmon dial for much cheaper but it isn’t available to the typical replica wearer.

 
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j21

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When you can get something like this salmon dial for much cheaper but it isn’t available to the typical replica wearer.

Hands are amazing

Edit: are they gen?
 
Last edited:

agisthos

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I really like these AP 42mm Offshore Diver Chrono's. It seems only the JF and JH factory makes them, as I cannot find any others for sale.

Both these suppliers have a JF factory 1:1 edition, but $70 in price apart.
https://www.theonewatches.io/index.php?route=product/product&path=173_174&product_id=3224
https://jtime.io/us/royal-oak-offsh...est-edition-on-yellow-rubber-strap-a3126.html

Is there any difference here? One says 'Ultimate Edition' and the other 'Best Version' are they meaningless phrases?
Are those real pictures of the actual reps or are images not reliable?

The last time I purchased reps was over 12 years ago from Perfect Clones and obviously a lot has changed since then.
 

j21

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I really like these AP 42mm Offshore Diver Chrono's. It seems only the JF and JH factory makes them, as I cannot find any others for sale.

Both these suppliers have a JF factory 1:1 edition, but $70 in price apart.
https://www.theonewatches.io/index.php?route=product/product&path=173_174&product_id=3224
https://jtime.io/us/royal-oak-offsh...est-edition-on-yellow-rubber-strap-a3126.html

Is there any difference here? One says 'Ultimate Edition' and the other 'Best Version' are they meaningless phrases?
Are those real pictures of the actual reps or are images not reliable?

The last time I purchased reps was over 12 years ago from Perfect Clones and obviously a lot has changed since then.
No this are the same, sometimes you find some small price differences between dealers

Meaningless phrases, just marketing
 

DJFinder

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Think I prefer the design of the older 15400 Royal Oak, but as I understand the 15500 is the better clone. Eg instant date change. I really like the white dial. What would people regard as the better factory for the 15500? ZF or APSF? Any reasons?