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Some teaser pictures , new movement p9001?
- Thread starter Sora
- Start date
- 18/1/11
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I'm afraid it will be almost impossible in the near future
Ceramic is possible, composite is another thing
But we can expect everything from our China friends
ALE
Hi ALE,
Unfortunately, my QC pics, do not include a tinted caseback...
Sora said, it shouldn't.. Dont know why.
D.
- 18/1/11
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Now I really have doubts, seeing Sora pics. And maybe I did a mistake
I honestly thought two versions have dark back crystal
But maybe Sora is right.
Since TSwatch have KW version too. I will ask Mark about the colour of the caseback crystal he has for PAM 441.
I will inform asap.
ALE
and you are right, its a clear as day back crystal... Ill shoot an email over to vac, and see if he can either darken it himself, or source the darkened back crystal.
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
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I was just thinking about that.
ALE
Yes I saw too the pics from TSwatch
But the reply of Mark was clear
Question:
"Hi Mark
I would like to know if the KW version of PAM 441 you are distributing has DARKENED caseback crystal.
http://www.tswatchltd.com/14093-pa14...9000-kw-v.html
It is important for me to know it
Thanks in advance for your prompt reply
ALE"
Answer:
"Hi ALE
IT IS Darkness backcase crystal.
Mark"
Yeah i know ALE... But his pics speak for themself...
Plus you know Mark is SO BUSY, that sometimes he gets really confused..
Dont know what is happening.
D.
Plus you know Mark is SO BUSY, that sometimes he gets really confused..
Dont know what is happening.
D.
- 18/1/11
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Yes. I agree.
But Mark is usually very precise in his answersto me. Because I'm the same with him.
I will try to confirm.
ALE
ALE would you be nice enough to also check to see if we could source a darkened caseback from your friend over there at TSWATCH since you have his attention? I wouldnt mind dropping a few $ to source the correct case back.
Love this.. but will probably hold out till they release one with a real ceramic case. I love my noob 292 ceramic it's really hardy. Hope they'll rep the 441 in ceramic as per gen soon.
Oops - They have a ceramic 292.. the Pam review guide needs updated. I almost went with the fact that it was only PVD.
http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-j-pig-11-noob-best-edition-on-black-leather-strap/
http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-j-pig-11-noob-best-edition-on-black-leather-strap/
- 18/1/11
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Dear nauticatom
Sorry, it is your reading system which needs to be updated. Many time ago, just before the PAM 292 in SS DLC coated version in PAM GUIDE is placed the PAM 292 real Ceramic version with all appropriate data.
See below:
This is the replica version made of Black Sandblasted Ceramic like the gen.
EVALUATION: (**) SUPER REP (M-series from H maker)
(*) FIRST CLASS REP (K-series H maker, see below comments)
(Pend) FIRST CLASS REP (pending to upgrade to Super rep.) (J-series H maker)
(Pend 2) FIRST CLASS REP (pending to upgrade to Super rep.) (J-series Noob)
WARNING (N-series Noob) see below comments about dial
The gen PAM 292 is similar to PAM 183 but made of Black sandblasted finish Ceramic instead of polished SS and fitted with solid caseback. It seems more similar to the PAM 380 but this last watch has a very different Logo Sausage dial instead of conventional Sandwich dial.
The gen Black Panerai Radiomir PAM 292 was first introduced in 2007 and it is now slowly making its way to the lucky few on the waiting lists. As opposed to other earlier black Panerai watches - like the Pre V 202/A and 203/A, the PAM 4,9,26, 360 and 195 - this Radiomir is not a PVD coated watch. Its case is Ceramic. There is currently only one other ceramic Panerai watch, which is the PAM 317.
PVD watches are made with stainless steel cases to which a black coating (PVD) is applied. Panerai themselves feel that especially the early PVD cases turned out to be too fragile. The cases scratch easily and once that happens, there's not much you can do about it. Ceramic however, is about five times harder than stainless steel and as a result much less prone to scratches. The new Ceramic watches are Panerai's solution for a much more reliable product. But the production process of ceramic watches is much more complicated and time consuming - mainly because the material is so hard. The cases are not molded, but made by machining. This is most likely why it has taken quite long for the first watches to be delivered to their owners. But, it's worth the wait.
There is another interesting detail about this Black Seal. Although the watch is not a Special Edition, the 2008 run does no longer have the little submarine SLC torpedo with two frogman riders- often referred to as the "pig"- on the dial. This seems to make the 2007 J-series a very collectible watch. The J-series is limited to 1000 pieces and another 1500 pieces will be made for the K-series (2008). The gen PAM 292 is part of the Panerai “Historic†Radiomir models, it has a Sandwich black dial in a cushion shaped Radiomir black Ceramic case 45mm, with detachable wire lugs with, seconds@9 sub-dial, Solid caseback and movement Panerai OP XI calibre, ETA based, it is manual winding by a onion shaped crown which has OP logo engraved.
This replica Full Black Ceramic version of PAM 292 K is made of real Black Ceramic and with sandblasted type finish very close to the gen. Sometimes this replica is even sold cheaper than the equivalent in Black PVD SS.
Be careful because some replicas from K-series H-maker had a very serious issue with an incorrect glue being used causing the case to split apart and making the lugs useless. Maker fixed this issue in the following models (thanks info from AHX).
However, one of our watchsmiths (Wiz in France) has sourced the correct compound for sticking ceramic to SS and can perform the repair should it be needed (thanks info from Bonesey)
We can consider the Full Ceramic K-series as First Class rep (be careful with the above mentioned issue), and the Full Ceramic M-series from H maker as a Super Rep.
From July of 2012 H maker has introduced a version J-series, threfore with the “pig†pressed out in the dial, that we can consider directly as a First Class rep, pending upgrading to Super rep.
PAM 292-J-series H maker mini Review and pics here:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam-292j-from-110507 by PolonusTM (it contains info about the Noob J-series too. See below)
From July of 2012 Noob has also introduced a version J-series, threfore with the “pig†pressed out in the dial, that we can consider directly as a First Class rep, pending upgrading to Super rep. This replica comes with ceramic crown, which could seem inaccurate since the first gen J-series came with SS PVD coated crown, but really the last gen J-series came with ceramic crown. For this reason Noob has decided starting the rep PAM 292 J-series with Ceramic crowm. Noob says that it is using a very good quality ceramic and process to make the case. Therefore this replica could be the best PAM 292 in the market, but it is expensive. We will wait pending future evaluations. And be careful with the ceramic crown because it will be fragile.
The Noob version is way more expensive but, following the fantastic thread of comparison by Torobravo, it seems that PAM 292J Noob is better than PAM 292J H-maker (except perhaps the PIG logo, see comments and comparison below).
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam-292-j-111846?p=1094079 by Torobravo
A good pictorial and mini-review of Noob J-series here:
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=34464&pid=587362&st=0&#entry58 7362
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=34464
Nice pictorial of H maker J-series here:
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=45790
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam292j-h-factory-135691 by randychuah
See the beautiful Noob’s ceramic crown here:
http://www.puretime.co/puretube/panerai/crown-video_a7bf1fecc by Angus of Puretime
More information here:
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=180267 by Angus of Puretime
Pictorial and little review with PIG logo comparisons here:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam292-j-pig-113115?p=1108184 by TastyTreats
At this moment the problem is to know if it is worth the difference of price between the Noob and H maker version. Since the case semms very similar (very difficult to know about the material quality)
For information you can see too a comparison between 292 K H maker and 292 J series Noob:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/little-comparison-noob-117789 by ericb196.
WARNING: There is a replica from H maker with a very inaccurate dial. See link:http://www.timesshop.net/12372-pa7240b-pam292-m-h-factory-black-ceramic-casing-1-1-asian-6497
This replica is announced as ULTIMATE 1:1 BUT HAS A VERY INACCURATE DIAL WITH "OP" LOGO. BE CAREFUL !!!
From August 2012 Noob has introduced the V1 N-series (therefore, without logo) and we can make for this version the same comments as J-series but leaving aside the comments related to the PIG logo.
WARNING: Before purchasing this rep N-series Noob V1, bear in mind a dial issue, because the inscription PANERAI is under the gen position. Read more here: http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-dial-issue-112929
From April 2013 Noob released the N-series V2 triyng to fix the PANERAI position issue, but this new version has still the PANERAI in a little low position. Threfore we cannot give to this replica a good evaluation, since it has an evident dial issue.
Read and see:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1397916&postcount=9
A good candidate for a first PAM replica
REPLICA links:
http://puretime.co/product/pam292-n-v2-11-noob-best-edition-on-black-leather-strap-dial-updated/ Noob N-series V2
(WARNING)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-n-11-noob-best-edition-on-brown-asso-leather-strap/Noob N-series V1
(WARNING)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-n-11-noob-best-edition-on-black-leather-strap/Noob N-series V1
(Pend 2)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-j-pig-11-noob-best-edition-on-brown-asso-leatherstrap/
(Pend 2) http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-j-pig-11-noob-best-edition-on-black-leather-strap/
(**)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-m-ceramic-transparent-ar-11-on-hand-stitched-black-calf-leather-strap/
(*)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam292-k-full-sandblasted-ceramic-11-ultimate-edition-on-thick-stitched-black-leather-strap/
(WARNING) http://www.timesshop.net/12372-pa7240b-pam292-m-h-factory-black-ceramic-casing-1-1-asian-6497THIS LINK IS A HMAKER WATCH ANNOUNCED AS ULTIMATE 1:1 BUT HAS A VERY INACCURATE DIAL WITH "OP" LOGO. BE CAREFUL
(Pend 2) http://www.timesshop.net/12635-xfpa292-pam292-j-noobfactory-best-1-1-version-ceramic-asian-6497
(**)http://www.timesshop.net/12456-pa7960b-pam292-m-h-factory-black-dial-ce-lt-1-1-asian-6497
(**)http://www.timeshops.net/12212-pa0463b100-pam292m-radiomir-black-seal-black-ceramic-casing-asian-6497
(*)http://www.timesshop.net/12455-pa7950b-pam292-k-h-factory-black-dial-ce-lt-1-1-asian-6497
(*)http://www.timesshop.net/10311-pam292-panerai-radiomir-black-seal-black-dial-ceramic-lt-asian-6497
(*)http://asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=&P_id=2154&ti=
(**)http://www.marvellousreplica.com/products_detail.php?ProId=1555
(*)http://www.marvellousreplica.com/products_detail.php?ProId=671
(Pend)http://www.ttw168.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&product s_id=9647 J-series H maker
(**)http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_45&produ cts_id=8745
(*)http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_45&produ cts_id=7632
(Pend) http://www.1-pc8838.com/0pn292j01-292j-blackseal-cerl-p-12436(J-series)
GEN links:
http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Historic_13
http://www.panerai.com/s_page.xpd?id_lingua=2&id_sezione=16&id_prodotto=7 284&id_categoria=3205
PAM GUIDE is carefully updated everyday. Nowadays there is a little of late due to many releases but everyday there are updates.
ALE
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
That is strange because Sora told me the back crystal of Gen 441 should not be darkened - which is wrong- because the Gen is clearly darkened.
Maybe old stock crystals???
Also ALE look at this pic...
I have already got a new reply from Mark of TSwacth
ALE Question:
Hi Mark
A member has sent to me a pic of your catalogue saying that PAM 441 seems have clear caseback crystal
Could you confirm that it really is actually darkened
Thanks and sorry for the troubles.
ALE
Mark ANSWER:
Dear friend
Because it's flash light reflection. in fact. it's dark back case. not like my photo.
Mark
Therefore I think it is clear now, maybe there is a first batch with clear CB crystal and then the new production with darkened CB crystal
If this is the truth, Sora should update crystal from maker
ALE
I have already got a new reply from Mark of TSwacth
ALE Question:
Hi Mark
A member has sent to me a pic of your catalogue saying that PAM 441 seems have clear caseback crystal
Could you confirm that it really is actually darkened
Thanks and sorry for the troubles.
ALE
Mark ANSWER:
Dear friend
Because it's flash light reflection. in fact. it's dark back case. not like my photo.
Mark
Therefore I think it is clear now, maybe there is a first batch with clear CB crystal and then the new production with darkened CB crystal
If this is the truth, Sora should update crystal from maker
ALE
Hi ALE,
It is either the flash effect then, (that might be present in Sora's QC pics as well), or the first batch came with wrong crystal...
Sora said, that the GEN hadn't any darkened crystal. Which is actually wrong and we all know that.
He also said, that it might be slightly darkened, so that it cannot show in the picture.
We will see. My theory is, that the watch does not have the correct crystal.
I hope that, if this is the case, he will be able to, either source a replacement crystal...,or send another watch if not shipped yet.
D.
ALE - Touche' Friend... I just did a FIND /F3 function in there, and that was the 292 i came up with. Thanks for the clarification... ill scroll around in the same area I hit F3 on next time 