[Project diary with pics] Franken Rolex Submariner 5513

[Lorologio]

Hi guys
Have learnt much from your post. I shall follow your example when I can again start collecting parts for a 5512 gilt PCG build. Tell me is the Helenarou case any good for a 5512 build given that I would have to reshape the lugs anyway? What doe the cost work out to just for the mid-case and back.

 

[pompompurin]

Hi guys
Have learnt much from your post. I shall follow your example when I can again start collecting parts for a 5512 gilt PCG build. Tell me is the Helenarou case any good for a 5512 build given that I would have to reshape the lugs anyway? What doe the cost work out to just for the mid-case and back.

Check my other thread out:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/th...ase-set-with-the-correct-crown-height.367186/

I think if you want to build a pcg, then HR case might not have enough crownguard meat for you to reshape. Also, the HR case isn't the best, but I suffer from crown/stem/tube height OCD so I was willing to compromise stubby crownguard and overpolished-looking lugs.

 

[pompompurin]

I will be using the ETA 2782 instead of the lowbeat-converted ETA 2824-2 because I will save the ETA 2824-2's h4 pinion for another project

Thanks to @Lorologio, my ETA 2782 has arrived safely today

The ETA 2782 is an ideal choice for replacing a modern highbeat 2824-2 movement because:
1. The 2782 has the same stem height as 2824-2 and therefore it is more gen-like, compared to the usual ETA 2846 movement that is used for cartel cases
2. The 2782's dimension and size (including tab locations) are identical to the 2824-2
3. The 2782 comes stock with h2 pinions and according to @occb2 (thanks buddy!), H2 pinion height is very alike to the pinion height of the gen Rolex 1520 movement
4. The 2782 is a lowbeat 21,600bph movement, which beats visually similar to the gen Rolex 1520 movement (19,800bph)

I removed the date wheel and I am still feeling dreaded about cutting the gen dial's feet off hmm. I will start polishing the watchman bezel with silicon carbide sandpaper (1200 grit) (thanks @tripdog)

I also received news from MK (Helenarou) that the HR 5513 case has identical crownguard shape to his gen 1969 5513. Maybe there are greater batch variations back when Rolex were more hand-assembled

 

[Lorologio]

More good info.
Good to see it arrived safely.


Sent from my iPhone using RWI

 

[pompompurin]

I noticed that the genuine 5513 came with different hand designs

Genuine Rolex 5513 hands can look like this:

Suspected fake Rolex 5513 hands can look like this (notice how the rectangular lume on the hour hand is different to the one above).. from the infamous chronoshop

Genuine Rolex service hands for 15xx movements look like this:

I gave up trying to source TC hands because they are very sought-after for obvious reasons - they look really good, like genuine Rolex service hands for 15xx movement or the Genuine 16610 hands.

Instead I bought some silver-plated one from a local Hong Kong seller:
Notice how the hour hand's rectangular lume is skinnier than the gen hand's rectangular lume? Unfortunately I got OCD and I will have to deal with these hands but they don't look bad at all from a distance.

As an OCD person, the hour hand's rectangular lume can vary by length and size, depending which seller/supplier the hands are bought from. For example... the Clarks ETA Submariner hands have a short and fat rectangular lume on the hour hand. This would be a good set of hands for vintage 5513 builds as the short an fat rectangular lume on the hour hand looks identical to a gen vintage 5513 set of hands

TC hands (V2 and V3) has the best shine and rectangular lume on the hour hand (very alike to gen Rolex service hands for 15xx movement, or the other type of 5513 hands)

 

[Spatiumtemporis]

I noticed that the genuine 5513 came with different hand designs

Genuine Rolex 5513 hands can look like this:

Genuine Rolex 5513 hands can also look like this (notice how the rectangular lume on the hour hand is different to the one above):

Genuine Rolex service hands for 15xx movements look like this:

I gave up trying to source TC hands because they are very sought-after for obvious reasons - they look really good, like genuine Rolex service hands for 15xx movement or the Genuine 16610 hands.

Instead I bought some silver-plated one from a local Hong Kong seller:
Notice how the hour hand's rectangular lume is skinnier than the gen hand's rectangular lume? Unfortunately I got OCD and I will have to deal with these hands but they don't look bad at all from a distance.

As an OCD person, the hour hand's rectangular lume can vary by length and size, depending which seller/supplier the hands are bought from. For example... the Clarks ETA Submariner hands have a short and fat rectangular lume on the hour hand. This would be a good set of hands for vintage 5513 builds as the short an fat rectangular lume on the hour hand looks identical to a gen vintage 5513 set of hands

TC hands (V2 and V3) has the best shine and rectangular lume on the hour hand (very alike to gen Rolex service hands for 15xx movement, or the other type of 5513 hands)

Great info!

Sent from the RWI App

 

[pompompurin]

Great info!

Sent from the RWI App

Thanks!

Project update,

I can now confirm that the ETA 2872 is is a direct drop-in replacement for a 2824-2; the 2872 is a lowbeat 21,600bph (whereas a 2824-2 is a modern 28,800bph). Therefore, the ETA 2872 is an ideal movement for any cases that can house genuine 1520/1530 movements and 2824-2 with adapter ring (e.g. Helenarou / Yuki / Phong / etc).

 

[pompompurin]

Project update

Workspace for today

Goodbye dial feet (I hate doing this..)

Removing the date disc from the ETA 2782, then applying a small amount of double-sided sticky tape onto places that are unobstructed on the movement

Dial installed, stem/crown installed, movement ring and tabs/screws installed

Lume shot!

Ran into a few problems:
1. the stem that came with the movement is too short - I ordered a new 2872 stem and I will wait for it
2. the hands and bezel insert have not arrived yet so I cannot assemble the watch yet
3. for some reason, the movement ring is lopsided when installed into the watch, and I will investigate why
4. because I have removed the date disc on the 2872 movement for this build, the winding clutch falls out of place often and it makes stem installation difficult

Other than that, next time I will be sanding and polishing the watchman bezel ring. Stay posted for more updated

 

[pompompurin]

Some project update

After using the ETA 2782, I realised that the stem height is 2.0mm according to ranffft, whereas the HR case is designed to use 2824-2 movement with a stem height of 1.8mm. So i reverted to using the 2824-2 lowbeat-converted movement.

After speaking to @occb2 (thanks Rob!), he has kindly commented that the genuine Rolex 1520 movement is more accurate to have H2 hands height instead of H4.

So, I ordered H2 wheels for the 2824-2 and it has finally arrived today.
Luckily, I didn't have to touch the train wheels because this movement came incorrectly with H2 second wheel instead of H4. Replacing the second wheel would be the hardest as it involves removing the automatic module and accessing the train wheels.. which is fiddly and very intrusive.

At the end, I only swapped out the hour wheel (very straightforward to replace) and the cannon pinion (i.e. the minute wheel) which involves removing the date corrector plates.

Going to try assembling the watch again - I ran into a hiccup last time because the movement didn't seem to like the movement ring - so the stem and the dial sat at an angle.

Date corrector plates removed, along with the hour wheel and cannon pinion

Voila! Installed H2 wheels

H4 (left) vs H2 (right) for each set. H4 wheels and cannon pinion provides a lot more clearance for the hands - it is no wonder why it is the weapon of choice for TC and many franken Datejust reps (i.e. in order to clear the dial's tall indices baton, or to provide a gen-like handstack)

 

[pompompurin]

.

 

[pompompurin]

I used another movement ring - a raffles ring for 34mm tudor and the lowbeat 2824-2 fits perfectly inside!

Here is the 5513 in a partially assembled state. I still need to buy a PVC pipe to completely press down the bezel retainer - my crystal press doesn't have enough depth

I will be ageing the cartel bezel insert next

 

[pompompurin]

Mock-up for now (crystal retaining ring isn't fully pressed yet)

Still need to
1. Press down the retaining ring with a PVC pipe
2. Sand the matte bezel ring to make it shiny
3. Age the bezel insert and sand it to make it fit

 

[Guest]

Love it!

 

[pompompurin]

Love it!

haha thanks
still a long way to go with the bezel sanding and insert bleaching

 

[Guest]

haha thanks
still a long way to go with the bezel sanding and insert bleaching

What kind of crown do you use?

I use "Autosol" for polishing to a shiny look, its a german brand but maybe its aviable in HK too?
If you dont have a PVC pipe thats fits, you can try a movement holder. 4 contact points can be enough if you dont need many force!

I would have bleached my insert myself, but then I found a real aged gen.

Spoiler

 

[pompompurin]

What kind of crown do you use?

I use "Autosol" for polishing to a shiny look, its a german brand but maybe its aviable in HK too?
If you dont have a PVC pipe thats fits, you can try a movement holder. 4 contact points can be enough if you dont need many force!

I would have bleached my insert myself, but then I found a real aged gen.

Spoiler

wow that is a pretty set! Don't chop the dial feet off please lol, unless you can drill dial feet holes at the exact locations on the 2824-2 movement.. or use a gen 1520 movement. These dials are getting really hard to find, including the glossy 5513 ones!

I am using the stock 702 crown that came with the helenarou case set. I read that the stock helenarou tube can also accept gen 702 crown and athaya 702 crown, but gen-spec tubes cannot be used on the helenarou case

Thank you for your brilliant tip on using a movement holder instead of a pvc pipe! I tried it but the retaining ring is stuck on the crystal, so I think I should sand the crystal's side down a bit

I think I have seen autosol before, I will have a look tomorrow when I go out to get stuff

 

[Guest]

wow that is a pretty set! Don't chop the dial feet off please lol, unless you can drill dial feet holes at the exact locations on the 2824-2 movement.. or use a gen 1520 movement. These dials are getting really hard to find, including the glossy 5513 ones!

I am using the stock 702 crown that came with the helenarou case set. I read that the stock helenarou tube can also accept gen 702 crown and athaya 702 crown, but gen-spec tubes cannot be used on the helenarou case

Thank you for your brilliant tip on using a movement holder instead of a pvc pipe! I tried it but the retaining ring is stuck on the crystal, so I think I should sand the crystal's side down a bit

I think I have seen autosol before, I will have a look tomorrow when I go out to get stuff

Oh buddy, thats a 16610 dial so its not the rarest but also rather rare!
I'll istall it on a SH3135 so I dont have to cut the feets.

But a gen crown fits in your tube/case?
Are you located in the EU or HK? You can let me know your adress so I can send you a gen one (if it fits):

Spoiler

I know that problem to find this "easy piece of plastic" thats fits on your retaining ring I already have pressed 16610 and 114060 retaining rings without problems. You just have to pay attention for the correct seat of the movement holder and that you will not have any contact points on thinner material that bends!

Take a look for this:

Spoiler

 

[pompompurin]

Oh buddy, thats a 16610 dial so its not the rarest but also rather rare!
I'll istall it on a SH3135 so I dont have to cut the feets.

But a gen crown fits in your tube/case?
Are you located in the EU or HK? You can let me know your adress so I can send you a gen one (if it fits):

Spoiler

I know that problem to find this "easy piece of plastic" thats fits on your retaining ring I already have pressed 16610 and 114060 retaining rings without problems. You just have to pay attention for the correct seat of the movement holder and that you will not have any contact points on thinner material that bends!

Take a look for this:

Spoiler

haha oh yeah, I just realised and I have mistaken lollll
is that 16610 dial turning matte? some of the early 16610/16800 dial can turn matte and those dials are rare (so please don't cut the dial feet off haha), like my one (it has turned matte with patina):

Sapphire crystals are easier to fit than plastic - it is much easier to install and press fit my 16610 crystal because the crystal isn't domed like the 5513 plexi haha

wow you have a nice collection of crowns, what franken builds are you building at the moment?
are you offering a 702 crown for me? wow if so, thank you for such a kind gesture and I don't know what to say. I am located in Hong Kong
My helenarou crown is decent at the moment too and it is okay too, you could always save the 702/703 crowns for your extra future franken projects

 

[Guest]

haha oh yeah, I just realised and I have mistaken lollll
is that 16610 dial turning matte? some of the early 16610/16800 dial can turn matte and those dials are rare (so please don't cut the dial feet off haha), like my one (it has turned matte with patina):

Sapphire crystals are easier to fit than plastic - it is much easier to install and press fit my 16610 crystal because the crystal isn't domed like the 5513 plexi haha

wow you have a nice collection of crowns, what franken builds are you building at the moment?
are you offering a 702 crown for me? wow if so, thank you for such a kind gesture and I don't know what to say. I am located in Hong Kong
My helenarou crown is decent at the moment too and it is okay too, you could always save the 702/703 crowns for your extra future franken projects

Until now my tritium dial is like new and shiny, just the typical cream color of the markers.
Strictly speaking, the matt sheets are a production defect because a Rolex is built for life and should change as little as possible. But this "issue" has found many friends, so this is the reason why it is so gladly accepted. And I like it too because it reminds the vintage submariners with mate dial as standart and the "new" ones with WG rounded markers on the glossy dial!

Haha it can be difficult too if the fits are not exactly correct, with a plexi you easier can sand more space between the crystal and retaining ring. But you also have can get other problems (like you have said).

Thank you!
I'm waiting for my SH3135 (shipped today from UK) now, then I will install some gen parts like the auto-winding bridge and rotor (if I think it will be need, if not the auto-winding bridge goes to M2M) and build my 16610LN Tritium franken with gen dial, hands, inlay, dw, crown and ST or drilled WM9 Case, for the bezel assembly I'll take a look for a good one and also for the bracelet I have to take a look. I think a leather strap can give your vintage sub a better look than the gen steel bracelet!
And I also have a gen & new 3186 GMT movement here and a franken Noob 116710LN with gen bezel assembly, gen crystal and gen hands, so if I bough a gen dial and maybe a gen clasp I have a almost perfect franken watch.
My actually other builds will be more hybrid-oriented, whats means a compilation of the best rep parts and moddings.

I'm not offering, I'm sponsoring! But you have to pay the shipping fees! (Express letter costs about 92HKD)
Can you show me the crown? Or is it exactly yours on page 1? On page 2 the crown contures a a little bit hard to see.. Would be interesting to have a comparrison to the gen ones

 

[pompompurin]

Until now my tritium dial is like new and shiny, just the typical cream color of the markers.
Strictly speaking, the matt sheets are a production defect because a Rolex is built for life and should change as little as possible. But this "issue" has found many friends, so this is the reason why it is so gladly accepted. And I like it too because it reminds the vintage submariners with mate dial as standart and the "new" ones with WG rounded markers on the glossy dial!

Haha it can be difficult too if the fits are not exactly correct, with a plexi you easier can sand more space between the crystal and retaining ring. But you also have can get other problems (like you have said).

Thank you!
I'm waiting for my SH3135 (shipped today from UK) now, then I will install some gen parts like the auto-winding bridge and rotor (if I think it will be need, if not the auto-winding bridge goes to M2M) and build my 16610LN Tritium franken with gen dial, hands, inlay, dw, crown and ST or drilled WM9 Case, for the bezel assembly I'll take a look for a good one and also for the bracelet I have to take a look. I think a leather strap can give your vintage sub a better look than the gen steel bracelet!
And I also have a gen & new 3186 GMT movement here and a franken Noob 116710LN with gen bezel assembly, gen crystal and gen hands, so if I bough a gen dial and maybe a gen clasp I have a almost perfect franken watch.
My actually other builds will be more hybrid-oriented, whats means a compilation of the best rep parts and moddings.

I'm not offering, I'm sponsoring! But you have to pay the shipping fees! (Express letter costs about 92HKD)
Can you show me the crown? Or is it exactly yours on page 1? On page 2 the crown contures a a little bit hard to see.. Would be interesting to have a comparrison to the gen ones

wow you got a lot of rare parts!!!! - a 3186 GMT movement as well!! and a WM9 case - those are so rare to buy and find! Sounds like you have a Rolex watchmaker friend to help you source these parts haha

thank you so much with the 'sponsoring' haha, if that is okay with you, I can pay for postage with beer money on top of it

sorry for late reply, i got so carried away with the arrival of my new 16610 LN from JF - I will be doing a review + franken process of it in another thread

I will take better pictures of the crown here
The biggest difference between the helenarou 702 crown and a genuine 702 crown is that the helenarou 702 crown isn't made out of wrapped steel, unlike the genuine 702 crown, so the underside bevel of the crown doesn't have that folded lines

here is the partially finished state of the watch

i still need to:
1. polish the bezel to make it shiny
2. sand the bezel insert down to make it fit better
3. BUY TC HANDS (rep submariner hands don't do the justice for me - I have OCD)
4. RESHAPE case/crownguard area (the case is fatter than what I expected unfortunately)

Other than that, the watch works beautifully and the ETA low-beat conversion is very accurate!

Here is a pic of: 5513 franken, TC superfranken, and stock JF 16610 LN