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Pressure Testing Pams

Rupert Fripp

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Thanks for the suggestions guys. Ado213 confirmed he can also test up to 10ATM and is based here in the UK.

The benefit of going with him is that if the watch fails or is damaged whilst tested at 10ATM, he can fix it. The guy I went to for the test at 5ATM for the Pam 127 I probably wouldn’t trust to try and fix anything beyond a battery replacement.

Only issue with Ado is that he can get busy and can just walk straight into the other place. Will see what’s up when the watch arrives and report back with results.
 

mrsullivan

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Ado has excellent feedbacks yes, and as you're in UK (I guess) he is a very good option.

Delays and patience are always to be expected you know, these guys are busy so expect 2 to 3 weeks for your watch to return.

Envoyé de mon SM-G991B en utilisant Tapatalk
 

Alex1976

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Both my 127 Noob tested and stopped at 2ATM, swimming in the pool no problem for the last 2 years.
 

papabear244

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Yeah, my first rep purchase was a Noob V12 Pam 005 and it failed at 30m.

The big thing for me though is not the failing, that’s fine, it’s destroying the watch in the process!

What?? Failed at 30?! How did that happen? The luminor reps are built like a tank, and the 005 even has a solid caseback.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Rupert Fripp

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What?? Failed at 30?! How did that happen? The luminor reps are built like a tank, and the 005 even has a solid caseback.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah! Failed at 30m!

Ado213 mentioned that only about 50-60% of the watches he checks pass a water resistance test. Not sure at what level he’s referring to though but assume 30m.
 

KOT1917

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Tank is a relative concept, in this case. It is not the thickness of the steel wall of the case that determines the situation, but the accuracy of the processing of connections and adjacencies.

According to the classics, the crown gasket, the height of the tube and the pressing force of the CG lever are checked. Also, we check the gasket and tightness of the case and caseback threaded connection.

From the factory, the geometry of some parts may be disturbed in such a way that a sufficiently tight abutment in the above parts will not be tight enough, and not even compensated by a rubber gasket.

Although in modern VSFs this is rather an exception, and such a situation may arise more likely in the case of a marriage, with old REPS this can occur on a large scale.

Further, there is an even more vulnerable part, this is the adjoining of the crystal to the case. If the caseback is transparent, then it is also there. As far as I understand, on a well-made watch, this is the most common problem, and at the same time I do not see everywhere that within the framework of the "waterproofing service" the crystal is republished as standard as it should, just prophylactically.

This problem no longer refers to the quality of the parts, which is really good, or the material, but to the quality of the assembly, the problem with which is much more likely.

And I'm talking about the most common and well-made cases from large factories, it is clear that the further from the standard version, the higher the risks.

Of course, if the crystal is defective, it may simply burst, or the entire batch of the model, or even the entire release, may or may not have such a negative property. And you will understand only when you check.

Thus, I wanted to say that in addition to the external solidity provided by a massive metal case, thick crystal, solid caseback, there are still "weak" spots, the strength of which determines the quality of water resistance as a result. And it is not easy to fully control them.

And in conclusion: I understand that if my conditional rep PAM285 had a water resistance of 2500m as a GEN, it would clearly amuse my vanity. But to be honest, I find it difficult to imagine how the hours tested at 50m flow when swimming in the pool, or swimming in the sea, but for most this is enough. If you are not part of this majority, then you will have to risk more than that same majority.
 

Rupert Fripp

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And in conclusion: I understand that if my conditional rep PAM285 had a water resistance of 2500m as a GEN, it would clearly amuse my vanity. But to be honest, I find it difficult to imagine how the hours tested at 50m flow when swimming in the pool, or swimming in the sea, but for most this is enough. If you are not part of this majority, then you will have to risk more than that same majority.

Very well put and begs the question what 100m is truly used for? I don’t dive at all but do snorkel.

I struggle to see the difference between snorkelling and swimming (which 50m is supposedly fine for), the exception seems to be that my head is just underwater the entire time.

Having said that, I suppose snorkelling requires the odd dive to the bottom to get a better view of something and a watch with a WR limit of 50m may fail during these periods.

I was rereading the Pam968 thread when VSF launched the model and one user (who I’ve pm’d to get involved in this chat) said his 968 passed at 10ATM straight from the factory and is used by him to surf etc.

It seems 100m is a level that would offer complete confidence in most sea activities, with the exception of deep diving.
 

mrsullivan

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Well, pressure in bars goes by +1 every -10 meters deep. As such the pressure growth is more pronounced in the first -10 to -15meters, as this value proportinally doubles.

For example :
- From surface to -10m deep = 1bar to 2bars, the pressure value is doubled.

- From -50m to -60m deep = 6bars to 7bars, pressure difference goes down to 1/7th of its value.

This is why it's between the surface and the first -20 meters that the pressure growth is the hardest to take, as it is a big variation for the watch (and the diver !).
It's this variation that sets standards for pressure testing a watch.
The bar (kP)/ATM (atmospheric) pressures are very close, about 1.01 value difference so they can be considered as equal on a daily basis. As such, saying 1bar = 1ATM is relatively true

As soon as your watch can take these shallow water dives we go for fun on holidays, barely beyond 10 meters for most of us, it'll be just fine. This is why a 5ATM is considered a good standard for a normal use in the water, it theorically equals to -40 meters deep.

I'm talking about relatively shallow waters, in deeper waters (-100m and more) and abyssal depth, the pressure variations are less important, it's the high static pressures at a given depth that brings the need for strongly water resistant equipment.



Envoyé de mon SM-G991B en utilisant Tapatalk
 
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Rupert Fripp

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That’s very interesting. So maybe I’ll only go to 5ATM in testing the 968, that is unless Ado213 hadn’t got a huge waitlist at the moment, in which case I’m happy to be the experiment to test up to 10ATM!
 

t3steve

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I have had all (3) of my Reps tested to 10 bar/100 meters. VSF Panerai 382, XF Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, VSF Rolex Yachtmaster 42, all passed fresh from the factory.
 

Rupert Fripp

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I have had all (3) of my Reps tested to 10 bar/100 meters. VSF Panerai 382, XF Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, VSF Rolex Yachtmaster 42, all passed fresh from the factory.

Damn!

I might just push my 968 to the 10 bar test…
 
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JayBee0815

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Rupert Fripp
Today my wonderful chinese pressure tester arrived ;-)

I dont know if a noob like me can operate the tester better than a high qualified Reddit-Expert (insider joke ;-)), but here are the results of my two Submersibles. At 6ATM (60 Meters) there are nearly no bubbles, so I can state, that they are both waterproof to 60 Meters.

[video]https://streamable.com/s2j28h[/video]
 
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P..DR..D

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Rupert Fripp
Today my wonderful chinese pressure tester arrived ;-)

I dont know if a noob like me can operate the tester better than a high qualified Redit-Expert (insider joke ;-)), but here are the results of my two Submersibles. At 6ATM (60 Meters) there are no bubbles, so I can state, that they are both waterproof to 60 Meters.

[video]https://streamable.com/onoovs[/video]

[video]https://streamable.com/ep3du4[/video]

Very nice J, not sure I'm brave enough to submerge any of mine just yet, maybe in time.

Does the tester affect the amplitude too though, just so we all know ;)
 
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P..DR..D

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No problem, I am a very very rich man and now I send all my Reps to the reddit master, so he can oil the keyless and than I will never ever have problems with the amplitude again! ;)

How rich though, doesnt count if you don't flexxx :p:p
 
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Plaasbaas

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Fun fact: The pressure inside a bottle of champagne at room temperature is approx. 7 bar, the warmer it is the higher the pressure - up to far over 10 bar. That kind of pressure makes me nervous :eek:
 

Rupert Fripp

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Rupert Fripp
Today my wonderful chinese pressure tester arrived ;-)

I dont know if a noob like me can operate the tester better than a high qualified Reddit-Expert (insider joke ;-)), but here are the results of my two Submersibles. At 6ATM (60 Meters) there are nearly no bubbles, so I can state, that they are both waterproof to 60 Meters.

[video]https://streamable.com/s2j28h[/video]

Wow! Congrats man!!!!!

I feel like we’re blowing apart the stigma that reps are not waterproof, having said that, Ado213 said it really is erratic and many, many reps he tests fail.

At least we have watches we can swim in!
 
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JayBee0815

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Thanks. I only hope, I operate the tester correct ;-)

The first Lumimor (Noob 911) also passed the test at 6ATM with no problems.