Possible Venmo/FB Marketplace Scam? My First Post.

[Toolwatchtool]

Hey all!

This is my very post! I have spent the last two years of my RWI membership trying to absorb as much knowledge as I possibly can. In addition to general knowledge regarding watches, I have spent a borderline unhealthy amount of time reading The Brig as well as nuked sales posts so that I can be armed to combat possible scams/scammers in the event I ever encounter one.

Recently, I decided to unload a few watches. I have never had social media but my wife has sold a few things on Facebook Marketplace. She offered to put a few listings up for me. I should mention that the watches are not reps but mid-grade watches like Seiko, Tissot, Hamilton, microbrands, etc. These are pieces that I have received as gifts or bought at a high discount but never worn.

A buyer contacted us regarding one watch and agreed to the asking price as well as the shipping cost of $5. He offered to pay via "Venmo for business and buyer/seller protection" to my wife's Venmo account. I have used Zelle and PayPal so I looked up what Venmo's terms were. Similar to PayPal's "goods and services," Venmo charges the seller 1.9% of the transaction and $0.10. The terms and conditions are:

"What’s eligible for Venmo’s Purchase Protection program?
The terms and conditions for Venmo’s Purchase Protection program are available in the User Agreement.

Some examples of situations that could be covered by Venmo’s Purchase Protection program include:

• If you bought a book, but received a DVD
• If you put a deposit down for a photography session, but the photographer doesn't show up
• If you purchased an item described as authentic, but received a knockoff
• If the item you bought is missing major parts that the seller didn't report
• If you purchased three items but only received two
• If the item was damaged during shipping"

Using my RWI knowledge, I know that typically the buyer will pay fees similar to PayPal goods and services protection. My wife asked our buyer if he would be alright to pay the fees and we did not hear back. I figured that either he was insulted over the idea of paying fees or else had changed his mind. Yesterday, my wife forwards me an email that shows the buyer paid for the watch and the $5 shipping fee. He did not include the Venmo service charge fees but later sent a message to my wife explaining that he had no issues with paying them and to simply send him a separate request on Venmo for the fees.

This morning, I took the time and was able to apply my RWI skills to properly pack, secure, and ship the watch. I did not use a flimsy mailer covered with a single piece of red tape. I did not place the watch in a Hallmark envelope. The watch was sealed in a bubble wrap self-sealing bag, and placed in the factory presentation box along with the extra links, additional leather band, and pillow. I made sure to pad the small void between the watch box and the shipping box with bubble wrap. Additionally, I wrapped the entire thing in brown packing paper and sealed the entire thing with shipping tape. I videoed the entire process without any cuts so that there could be no question as to the contents of the box. Then, the box was placed on a digital scale to indicate the weight was the identical weight as the shipping label. This way, no one could possibly replace the contents with onions, Star Wars shampoo, or part of a fur hat and match the exact shipping weight of 2.12 pounds.

Venmo requires you to reply to their email with a valid tracking number and then the funds will immediately be transferred to your account. I asked my wife to first contact our buyer first because I wanted him to know that I upgraded his shipping to USPS Priority 2 Day at my cost and that I also added that a signature was required. I personally hate having to sign for a package but there was no way I was going to send it without a release. Here is where everything gets weird...

My wife goes to her Facebook and says something like "All of his messages are gone." Again, I don't have social media, so I suggest maybe it's just an app error. She then checks Facebook on her laptop and it's the same thing, no messages from the buyer. She has messages regarding items she sold nearly a year ago with a pile of people that display without issues. I ask if she had his email, mobile, WhatsApp, etc. Negative. She then goes to his Facebook profile and it's gone. There is no reason provided. The dude has just disappeared.

We had a name and address from the Venmo transaction details so we both do a bit of googling and there's nothing. My wife is telling me that yesterday he had photos of his kid and dog on his Facebook but today he's a ghost.

I'm very glad that I decided to contact him first instead of jumping to claim the funds by submitting the tracking info to Venmo. As I mentioned, I have not only read nay, STUDIED, the Brig threads here. This whole thing has to be some type of scam, right? It seems insane that a buyer would willingly cut off his only means of communication with a seller the day after sending a few hundred bucks to a stranger.

The only thing I can think of is that somehow he/she/they were planning to file a dispute through Venmo for quite literally anything. The item is not authentic, not as described, item was three, no, FOUR onions. That way Venmo would pull or freeze the funds in our account. In the meantime, the guy would definitely have my watch and could sell it for additional money. Since it takes a pretty long time for PayPal or Venmo to investigate, he would have plenty of time to unload my watch. Even if Venmo sided in my favor, the odds of the guy making sure he had a zero-balance bank account would be pretty high.

Are any of you familiar with how this works regarding Venmo? This might be my first watch sale but I have to say, if I never discovered RWI I would have more than likely walked right into this possible scam. I'd really appreciate it if anyone can see an angle that I might have missed. I'm also pretty sure the address provided by the buyer doesn't matter. He would just track the package and wait by the address until the package arrived if need be.

The vigilance of the RWI community continues to amaze me. I can't thank all of those who contribute to this forum enough. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid and there was nothing nefarious at all going on with the buyer other than an unfortunate snafu with his Facebook account. I'd really love to hear your thoughts on this and appreciate any info RWI members provide.

 

[Soundriver]

Following this very interesting story. Sounds like you are very wise. And maybe a bit lucky. Were you able to send refund through Venmo?

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Following this very interesting story. Sounds like you are very wise. And maybe a bit lucky. Were you able to send refund through Venmo?

Hey Soundriver! Thanks for replying!

Any Venmo payment tagged as a purchase requires a valid tracking number to be sent to their payment confirmation email in order for the funds to be transferred immediately to your account. Fortunately, I first wanted to have my wife send a message regarding shipping info to the buyer on Facebook. That is when we realized that his account was gone. After we did some digging and searching, I purposely did not send the tracking to Venmo, thereby not getting paid a penny from the buyer. I'm really glad that I decided to proceed with this order so that we didn't need to issue any refunds.

To be honest, this is why I was so confused. Perhaps the buyer was hoping I simply transferred the funds and sent the watch without first attempting contact via Facebook. That way it would be impossible for us to communicate with him. Also, I know that a lot of people are quick to click their deposit and scammers know this. Either way, It seems like he really jumped the gun by deleting his account. I would think most scammers posing as legit buyers would leave their only communication method intact. My only guess is perhaps the account was deleted in order to deny any accountability. He could simply say something to the effect of "Oh my Facebook account was compromised and I purposely removed it. I am not responsible for any purchases made during this time." Meanwhile, my watch was already delivered to the provided address.

I also expected that my wife would receive a message from our buyer using a "friend"s" Facebook account and attempting to explain the situation. So far, this has not happened. The entire situation seems more than a buyer getting cold feet or buyer's remorse.

 

[Art Vandelay]

An eye openeing read. Thank you for taking the time to share this.

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Thanks Art! Since it happened we have also received nothing from Venmo. I thought perhaps we would get Venmo nag email reminders that a payment was pending, or else had expired/was withdrawn. To date, there has been no more communication from Venmo. Very strange!

 

[Feefo]

Interesting and very nicely written. Thanks for the insights. Always be on the lookout...

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Interesting and very nicely written. Thanks for the insights. Always be on the lookout...

Thanks Feefo! I totally agree with being on the lookout. If I never read the RWI Brig threads (every single one!), I don't think I would have even suspected anything was amiss.

RWI is a tremendous resource for more than just rep watches. I'm very grateful for all the community users who create such amazing content.

 

[gatorkills94]

Definitely sounds like a scam to me!

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Definitely sounds like a scam to me!

Thanks for weighing in Gatorkills! I am all for giving the benefit of the doubt but this just seems too off to be considered on the up-and-up.

For the life of me, I can't figure out the exact angle of this particular scam. Had the buyer not deleted his Facebook profile, I would have shipped the watch without question. Since I am very unfamiliar with Venmo, I'm wondering if there is more to it than my wife and I realized. Hopefully, RWI Venmo users might be able to provide any additional info that I am missing. It's also very possible that the buyer is just a terrible scammer!

 

[gatorkills94]

Thanks for weighing in Gatorkills! I am all for giving the benefit of the doubt but this just seems too off to be considered on the up-and-up.

For the life of me, I can't figure out the exact angle of this particular scam. Had the buyer not deleted his Facebook profile, I would have shipped the watch without question. Since I am very unfamiliar with Venmo, I'm wondering if there is more to it than my wife and I realized. Hopefully, RWI Venmo users might be able to provide any additional info that I am missing. It's also very possible that the buyer is just a terrible scammer!

Just seems very strange and would definitely be enough of a red flag for me to just refund and not send them out. I often sell on fb marketplace but I never ship for this reason

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Just seems very strange and would definitely be enough of a red flag for me to just refund and not send them out. I often sell on fb marketplace but I never ship for this reason

Fortunately, we didn't have to refund anything because we never submitted the tracking number to Venmo which would transfer funds to our account. I did not want to initiate the payment until the buyer was fully aware of the shipping method and signature requirement. I think that by taking that extra step, I avoided stepping into the scam.

You do bring up a great point Gatorkills...from now on I will only deal with local buyers. My limited experience with Facebook Marketplace has not been the best. Tons of lowball offers and general weirdos. On a different watch sale, we had a buyer contact us and said something to the effect of "I will give you $200 but only if you drive it directly to my house otherwise I will only give you $100 to ship it." First off, the buyer was at least a three-hour drive and I'm not a delivery service. Secondly, the watch was fairly listed at $500. I had to hit them back with the old "No thanks!"

I'll cross my fingers for better luck.

 

[gatorkills94]

Fortunately, we didn't have to refund anything because we never submitted the tracking number to Venmo which would transfer funds to our account. I did not want to initiate the payment until the buyer was fully aware of the shipping method and signature requirement. I think that by taking that extra step, I avoided stepping into the scam.

You do bring up a great point Gatorkills...from now on I will only deal with local buyers. My limited experience with Facebook Marketplace has not been the best. Tons of lowball offers and general weirdos. On a different watch sale, we had a buyer contact us and said something to the effect of "I will give you $200 but only if you drive it directly to my house otherwise I will only give you $100 to ship it." First off, the buyer was at least a three-hour drive and I'm not a delivery service. Secondly, the watch was fairly listed at $500. I had to hit them back with the old "No thanks!"

I'll cross my fingers for better luck.

Lol what an offer, people are ridiculous

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Lol what an offer, people are ridiculous

Truer words man! It's one of the reasons that I rarely sell anything. The entire process of being a seller is a demoralizing lesson. I love the buyers who message you just to tell you what they don't like about the item you are selling. Maybe they feel like they are emotionally preparing you for their imminent lowball offer. I'm more from the "If you don't like it, don't buy it" school.

 

[just watch in]

Truer words man! It's one of the reasons that I rarely sell anything. The entire process of being a seller is a demoralizing lesson. I love the buyers who message you just to tell you what they don't like about the item you are selling. Maybe they feel like they are emotionally preparing you for their imminent lowball offer. I'm more from the "If you don't like it, don't buy it" school.

Agree...i have a master degree from that same school!!

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Agree...i have a master degree from that same school!!

I knew you looked familiar Just Watch In! Perhaps we can do the secret handshake and sing the song of our alma mater? It was an amazing education. To this day, I can be shown thousands of items I don't like and I will not buy a single one. Crazy, I know.

 

[just watch in]

Just as crazy as 'i can be asked to drop a price of something i own to a ridiculous level and i don't even bother answering'...that kind of crazy

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Just as crazy as 'i can be asked to drop a price of something i own to a ridiculous level and i don't even bother answering'...that kind of crazy

Truly you are a master!

I guess I always feel bad without some kind of response even if not warranted. I'm always holding out that someone apologizes for being a lowballing cretin or else had a serious bout of unfortunate typos. Sadly, this is never the case. Weeping for humanity.

 

[Chroad]

Toolwatchtool, appreciate you posting this. Glad you seem to have come out of it unscathed, and wiser to boot.

Buying isn’t always a pain-free interaction anymore, but selling stuff these days is the worst. It’s getting harder to sell things through local in-person transactions, while shipping stuff is almost out of the question. I can’t remember the last time I sold something on the eBay—just too much risk of hassle.

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Hey Chroad!

Thanks for your reply. It is maddening to attempt to sell watches. My wife has had no issues with sales ranging from bar stools to my son's toy trucks. I must be doomed.

I forgot to update this thread, however. A few weeks ago, my wife told me that the buyer from my watch sale reappeared online. I asked her to send him a message checking on his "well-being." We made sure not to include anything regarding his purchase of my watch. She messaged him a few times under the guise of "Hope you are alright," and he never responded back. I decided it was probably for the best.

In addition, we had another buyer who insisted they would pay in full for the watch via Zelle. I have used Zelle, and I'm fairly certain that there is no way to contest a payment or initiate a chargeback. Everything on the surface appeared fine.

The woman was in California and told us that she was using her Zelle account to buy it for her brother as a gift. The brother wanted to pick up the watch that day in a 2-hour time frame. She was insistent that we remove the sales ad or update the post to show it as "SOLD" so that no one else could buy it. She also provided her brother's Facebook link. The last names were different, which wasn't a red flag by itself. We look at the profile that she provided, and her "brother" lives in Kentucky. Kentucky is at least 12 hours away from our state! My wife went to clarify this, and everything began to unravel.

It's not as if we were asking difficult questions. For example, if your brother lives 800 miles away, how does he plan on meeting us in 2 hours? Perhaps he is traveling and in our area? The woman's English seemed to be shaky at best. She responds, "WE BUY NOW." My wife and I tried to clarify if she really meant that we should ship the watch to her brother in Kentucky. Her response was "PAY NOW ZELLE FULL PRICE." This went on for way longer than it should have.

As this is going on, my wife is asking me if this seems to be a scam, and my answer is that I truly did not know. It wasn't possible to tell if there was a legitimate language barrier or if that was simply an act. I take the sale of anything very seriously, and my biggest concern was getting the buyer my watch, especially if it was supposed to be a gift.

As I mentioned before, I have never used social media, and this is all through my wife's account. She does not suffer fools gladly. I could tell that she was losing patience. The rest of the exchange quickly devolved. Here is a snippet:

My wife: "I don't understand. How is your brother planning on getting the watch if he lives in Kentucky?"
Facebook Buyer: "THROUGH ZELLE!"
My wife: "YOU DO NOT MAKE SENSE. ZELLE DOES NOT EXPLAIN IF HE WILL MEET US TO PICK IT UP OR IF HE WANTS IT SHIPPED."
Facebook Buyer "I AM IN CALIFORNIA. I PAY ON ZELLE."

At this point, my wife and this lady are really just sparring, and I wanted to beat my head against a wall. The buyer finally sends a message with "FINE BYE."

What was odd was that the Facebook profile of the woman had perfectly typed posts with proper grammar and syntax. If the payment method was not Zelle and they wanted to use PayPal, for example, I would have instantly thought it was a scam. I suspect that someone had either their phone or laptop stolen with little to no security and the login credentials to the actual owner's Zelle account. The fact that this buyer was not at all concerned with the logistics or actual arrangement to have the watch picked up was the biggest indicator of something not adding up. I know if I buy anything, I'd like to know when and where I can get it. Initially, we tried arranging a place to meet up, but she never once addressed it. My wife also sent the "brother" several messages, but there was no response at all. The account had last been updated in 2021.

Facebook Marketplace has left a bad taste thus far. A taste of tears and regret

 

[Toolwatchtool]

Update: 9-20-23

File under scamming scammers try more scams:

Just to follow up, I seem to have finally figured out the Zelle angle. Today, my wife contacted me to let me know that there was a buyer for one of my watches via Facebook Marketplace. The buyer appeared to be a legit Facebook user with personal photos and posts. She agreed to the price in full as long as we would ship it to CA. Not a problem as I own a business that frequently ships coast to coast and I can use my corporate discount to save money for the buyer. The buyer did mention that time was important but opted for standard ground shipping.

The buyer inquired about payment options and we told her that we would accept PayPal, Venmo, and Zelle. She opted to pay via Zelle which was great since I know and use the platform regularly. My Zelle details were sent along with my QR code. She was adamant that we mark the watch as "SOLD" on Facebook Marketplace after we received the payment.

I received an email from "Zelle" around 11:45:



Hmmm. This seems odd. Maybe it's the strange salad of words supposedly sent from a financial institution? Perhaps I questioned the email because my Zelle account IS a business account. Maybe it was because the sender was actually a poorly masked "[email protected]" instead of an actual zelle.com domain? It was actually all of these things that raised the proverbial red flags. I checked my banking app and it was evident that no payment was pending or processed by Zelle. I guess they were hoping that I wouldn't check the app and would simply rely on a shoddy email. Pretty lazy, even for scumbags. I could not believe that scammers are still using a variation of the "overpayment scam" below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overp...ost basic form,amount and the intended amount.

So now I'm upset at having wasted the time and energy to even entertain the sale as well as providing info such as shipping quotes etc. I received a text from my wife saying the buyer had just let her know that she had made a payment and for us to provide tracking. After explaining to my wife that this was a scam to get the watch for free and a $300 gift payment on top, my wife told the buyer that the jig was up. The scammer naturally played innocent and my wife blocked them as well as reported them for fraud.

It's more than likely these Facebook accounts have been compromised. I cannot fathom that a single mother of two would risk her own profile and personal details in return for scamming a few bucks. The shipping address provided was legitimate and appeared to be in a residential area.

Moments after the dust settled with all of this nonsense, I received a text on my phone from my "pharmacy." In an ironic twist, I had actually just called my pharmacy and wasn't initially concerned because they frequently text me updates and notifications. When I clicked on this message, I was taken to a site that needed to confirm my identity with multiple fields for personal info. I soon realized that the attempted watch scammer(s) had obtained my number from my Zelle account and were now trying to begin a secondary/tertiary rouse.

Facebook Marketplace might be a decent place to unload household junk because no one is going to try to ship an old kitchen table in the first place. For value items like watches and jewelry, it continues to be a veritable rouge's gallery of half-witted crooks running amok.