{*PCTeam*} PAM372 From Puretime

[stolikat]

+1 great post.

 

[PeteM]

Thanks guys

Here are some pics that might help in visualising some points

 

[straycat]

Thanks Pete, very informative. It makes me appreciate the complexity of the gen.

 

[Naburus]

Wow, what a post! Thanks a lot for the insight!

 

[ALE7575]

Hi Pete

Many thanks again for your kind explanation about sausage lume application and gen construction
Especially interesting first PANERAI pic applying lume material. This pic explains by itself all details of this system of lume application.

I always like your explanations about this matter.
And I agree with you that rep makers will must change the system and construction of sausage lume application to get accurate replicas. They are far of that at this momento, because they are starting in a wrong way from the beginning.

I like also below pic "stolen" from you

Thanks again

ALE

 

[goin6633]

The comment regarding viscosity etc isnt really the issue in this case...

The problem is and always has been the difference in construction methods and materials...

The PAMs are all brass dials...the reps are aluminium or steel... so trying to recreate the impressions and cutouts is much more difficult to reproduce... gen dials are around 1.1mm thick... reps are basically slivers.

The lettering in nearly all PAM watches is Berlac AG paint... this maker is the only one that makes this 'paint' under trademark and is used by nearly all highend Swiss watch makers...

The cutouts and inscrips are CNC milled using vector graphics and autocad... real high end machinery and operatives..

The brass dials are first grit and glass bead fired...then placed in a galvanic bath (which makes it black)

After this the black dial is coated in Berlac AG Zapon varnish..it is not possible to 'paint' directly onto the galvanic finish... letter printing is then hand mixed and a steel print cliche is used to apply.... this is very expensive so as you can guess the rep method comes no where close... it is painted black then letter paint applied directly onto that... that is why NO rep has manged to reproduce the dial finish of any gen and why when caught in certain lights you can spot a rep on the wrist without seeing its detail...

The lume is another matter but I am sure most of you know the gen details of maker and application which again is never met by any rep maker... on any rep

The dials that you see in H maker and 3 series maker (from Angus) are different and not made by the same sub contarctor to maker... that can easily be seen in the cutout detail and the inscriptions ..they are completely different just look at the shape of letters... H is off more than 3 series maker...

If you are just looking at the depth of the letter print then the 3 maker does have a look of more depth whether its deeper or not is hard to say without having them both in my hand but what is clearly visble is that the 3 Makers lettering creates more inner shadow which is imperative to recreating the gen look... However both lack depth in the sandwich similar to all the other sandwich dial reps...

Though that may be remedied by removing the rep lume and replacing with a correct RCTritec Pantone Radium colour lume.... by using the correct lume you need less so it possible to increase the depth of sandwich between top and base

Its like all the rep LM & L sausage dials...none of them are correct simply because they actually aint sausage in the sense that most here understand... its not simply a lume applied on top of a dial its lume applied into a deep cutout which stands proud or flat (model depending) towards centre of cutout... you can still see the cutouts clearly in the gen and that the sausage isnt or doesnt stand up and over... all rep dials with sausage lume looks like they were applied by a mini cake icing bag

Pete , you are amazing as always , nice post !

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[PeteM]

Thanks again guys for the kind words.

Here is my favourite pic (not including PreV)



Here is a good pic example of sausage that you see in this










Now the above is a 000 dial but its a later version... the G series of course was LSL unlike the later LSMLs... the cutouts are thicker/wider on a G series so the markers are bigger so to speak... the LSMLs that followed also varied slightly in lume application but only in height.... none however like the rep

 

[atespo]

How did this thread about the 372 go sideways about sausage lume when the 372 is a sandwich dial? Interesting read for sure but I'm afraid a lot of people will not see it, it should be in its own thread.

Some updated news about the 372 from Josh, there was a unknown problem with some watches in the first batch and a lot of them had to be retuned to the maker. So until they resolve the issue, there will be no QC photos or any shipments. I asked what the problem was and was told 'earlier unit shown to you was rejected cos the timing was out' Said the stocks will arrive "in just these couple of days" but we all know what that can mean. So now we wait...

EDIT: I just realized this was the 372 from puretime thread, my info above is from Perfect Clones about the so-called "h-factory 372" (even though we have no real evidence it's an H-Fac watch)

 

[PeteM]

How did this thread about the 372 go sideways about sausage lume when the 372 is a sandwich dial? Interesting read for sure but I'm afraid a lot of people will not see it, it should be in its own thread.

Some updated news about the 372 from Josh, there was a unknown problem with some watches in the first batch and a lot of them had to be retuned to the maker. So until they resolve the issue, there will be no QC photos or any shipments. I asked what the problem was and was told 'earlier unit shown to you was rejected cos the timing was out' Said the stocks will arrive "in just these couple of days" but we all know what that can mean. So now we wait...

EDIT: I just realized this was the 372 from puretime thread, my info above is from Perfect Clones about the so-called "h-factory 372" (even though we have no real evidence it's an H-Fac watch)

Youre right mate but the post was more related to a general overview of why rep to gen dials vary ....

The comments on the sausage,I hoped, were just to cover that area but I think only accounts for a small part of the posts and pics were just to show the points visually...

In a way it is relative to sandwich dial in terms of the attention to depth that the reps dont achieve in either

Plus I waffle and could go on and on about PAMs without needing the parameters of a thread topic

My bad..apologies

Of course you are right neither 372 or indeed all 4 versions are not made by the H maker...

One is made by the 3 series maker, thats the latest Angus one.

The latest one the cartel boys have.. I dont know but going by a few details I think its that GZ market fella..

The other 2 are old crappy versions from ...I guess some smaller makers that you see about ..like those fantasy HBB Ferrari KPs

 

[spankster23]

Has anybody modded the CP yet?

 

[spankster23]

Here's mine by the way. And its Awesome!

:txrob: