Panerai Strap Tubes?

[bme]

'' Tu be or not tu be, that is the question''

What a waste of space and energy trying to either prove or disprove the neccessity for these little fellas.....I love 'en because, well they differentiate the Panerai watches I have.

Please let me continue to use them without feeling somewhat a fool.

 

[Jake48]

I have contacted a friend who knows someone inside at Panerai. He will get a name and an anwser to the the reason Panerai chooses to use strap tubes. I will post the answer with the name over at Panerai. You can take your arguement to him and tell hm that he is wasting Panerai's money with something that "serves no purpose".

LOL,

I look forward to your friend of a friend's response. :lol:

It will be interesting to say the least - and by the way - I am fully prepared to eat crow - It dosen't happen often, but I have been wrong before!

(I hope you know Iam just kidding - about he whole wrong before thing )

 

[Jake48]

While we wait for my buddy to get word back from the source - consider this:

From a thread @ Paneristi:

fix the link: hXXp://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... 182230570/


Is it necessary to use the tube in strap?
June 19 2007 at 6:22 AM CXXX CXXX (Login XXX)

As some of my have read I just recently got a 164. Today i decide take of the black mx gator and put back on the brown oem gater. I notice that the brown oem had a tubue in the strap, where as the black oem did not come with a tube. Is it necessary to have the tube and what is the function of the tube? I appoligize if these question have been answered before.
Thanks
CXXX CXXX,



Re: Hi CXXX, in my opinion always use tubes. nt
June 19 2007 at 6:41 AM



Congrats...the tube
June 19 2007 at 6:33 AM RXX-MXXXXXX (Select Login JXXX)
Response to Is it necessary to use the tube in strap?
serves a purpose. In the past the strap has rubbed on the screw loosening it up and it may then work it's way out....which would be a catastrophe! The tube will take the rubbing and not loosen the screw. It is not essential but something to pay attention to. You should be able to slide the tubes from out of your first strap and put them in the second.

Good luck,
XXXXX



Safer to use the tube
June 19 2007 at 9:38 AM wXXXX (Login pXXXXXXX)
Response to Is it necessary to use the tube in strap?
I asked this question last week when I changed straps for the first time. Yes the screws will loosen after prolonged usage without the tubes. Won't want the watch to break away from the strap while wearing it... safer to use the tube. Thus if one buys 3rd party straps the lug end should be wide enough to accomodate the tube.



Of course, just because these guys had the same experience as me, as well as a few others here with thier strap screws loosening without tubes doesn't mean it will be the same experience for everyone. If I were going to error though, I would want to error on the side of caution and it makes sense to me to be safe instead of sorry.

 

[bme]

While we wait for my buddy to get word back from the source - consider this:

From a thread @ Paneristi:

fix the link: hXXp://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... 182230570/


Is it necessary to use the tube in strap?
June 19 2007 at 6:22 AM CXXX CXXX (Login XXX)

As some of my have read I just recently got a 164. Today i decide take of the black mx gator and put back on the brown oem gater. I notice that the brown oem had a tubue in the strap, where as the black oem did not come with a tube. Is it necessary to have the tube and what is the function of the tube? I appoligize if these question have been answered before.
Thanks
CXXX CXXX,



Re: Hi CXXX, in my opinion always use tubes. nt
June 19 2007 at 6:41 AM



Congrats...the tube
June 19 2007 at 6:33 AM RXX-MXXXXXX (Select Login JXXX)
Response to Is it necessary to use the tube in strap?
serves a purpose. In the past the strap has rubbed on the screw loosening it up and it may then work it's way out....which would be a catastrophe! The tube will take the rubbing and not loosen the screw. It is not essential but something to pay attention to. You should be able to slide the tubes from out of your first strap and put them in the second.

Good luck,
XXXXX



Safer to use the tube
June 19 2007 at 9:38 AM wXXXX (Login pXXXXXXX)
Response to Is it necessary to use the tube in strap?
I asked this question last week when I changed straps for the first time. Yes the screws will loosen after prolonged usage without the tubes. Won't want the watch to break away from the strap while wearing it... safer to use the tube. Thus if one buys 3rd party straps the lug end should be wide enough to accomodate the tube.



Of course, just because these guys had the same experience as me, as well as a few others here with thier strap screws loosening without tubes doesn't mean it will be the same experience for everyone. If I were going to error though, I would want to error on the side of caution and it makes sense to me to be safe instead of sorry.

The definitive answer?

Better to be all tubed up..............just in case!!!

 

[tootall]

Re: poor old seraphe asks a simple question ...

Panerai didn't invent the wheel, the lever, or bearing surfaces. Yet as engineers, they recognise how to do something elegantly and with percision. Is a tube required? No. Will it work better with it, yes it will. There will be less friction (under all situations and conditions) the wear point will last longer, than without.

Good explanation enzo. However I hope that you are not being absolute with your statement above. Tubes can increase the strap size which cause it to wear down faster, due to it rubbing against the case or pulling apart the fibers, etc. So that "fact" is out the window. So not in all cases will a tube work better. Actually not even in a majority of cases. Just do my simple test above (the one with the picture) then you will see what I am talking about. Please don't say "oh that won't work" just really try it and let me know. You will see it is virtually impossible to screw loose the screw this way.

The whole friction idea is noted. However, burnished leather is slicker than metal to metal. So there is actually less friction in a well burnished strap than one with tubes.

I haven't tried all straps out there and true that rep watches have poor QC from one watch to the next. However, a well made strap, with decent screw lugs will have no difference in it with or without tubes. If you have problems with it screwing them out, then your lugs are messed up and you are better off getting the PAM springbars.

 

[seraphe]

Re: poor old seraphe asks a simple question ...

... and gets a thread of opinions

There are no rules in the world of straps as to whether you "have to" or "not" use tubes. But not using them, does not constitute a -fact- they are not useful or serve a purpose. Debating over opinions creates a multi-paged thread of opinions, facts tend to get lost in the muddle. ...

There is nothing wrong with doing something with over-engineered aspects. The entire field of watchmaking sort of relies on this as a cornerstone to it's product. Certainly things can be done cheaper and corners can be cut, but what is the point to that?

Haha. Thanks, Enzo. I guess I already had my own subjected opinion, but the replies from the others do provide different aspects of a simple thing like the tube. It's a great learning experience about our favorite watch.

I have new questions after all the arguments on the use of tubes...

- Did pre-V pannies like the 201A have tubes in the straps? Was it added only post-V?
- If so, could there be reported incidents to Panerai that created the addition of tubes then?
- The 'need' of tubes on pannies, as to all other watches with leather straps, is subjectable. But what about rubber straps? My thought of rubber surface having more grip than leather, hence more likely to unscrew the pins. Do the rubber straps on our pannie reps come with tubes?

 

[Jake48]

Re: poor old seraphe asks a simple question ...

ENZO

Very nicely said - Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our little hobby of watches that we share is fun when people realize that having an opinion does not make one right or wrong necessarily, but like discussing a fine wine or a good cigar, should bring everyone together in a mutual appreciation of the things we share our passion over.

 

[tootall]

enzo,

I think you came into this conversation with the wrong attitude or something. I never said I have not "seen" a Gen strap. I said I have not handled an OEM strap. I actually said I have "seen" them, please re-read.

Furthermore, I am not arguing whether or not Panerai OEM straps come with tubes, I am answering the questions that seraphe first had. My logic is not flawed in that we buy aftermarket straps, most of which are generic to fit multiple PAM's. So then a strap that does not come with tubes, is designed to not use them and vice versa. But you could take out the tubes as they serve no real purpose. This last statement is based on experience, study and testing.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact - read definition number three. I use "fact" in this sense.

seraphe, to answer your other question about rubber straps. I have seen some with tubes and some without. Every rubber strap I have played around with, is a pain to get back on once you take it off. I tried my little test on a PAM I know had good lugs. It did loosen the screw. However, I couldn't screw it all the way out. The danger though is that once loose it moves around and can strip the lugs.

 

[seraphe]

Every rubber strap I have played around with, is a pain to get back on once you take it off. I tried my little test on a PAM I know had good lugs. It did loosen the screw. However, I couldn't screw it all the way out. The danger though is that once loose it moves around and can strip the lugs.

That is my worry about the Ultimate 092 I plan to get, as I plan to change to a SS bracelet once in a while. That's why I'm concern if I should add the tube to ease removing of the rubber strap when I want to. This, of course, won't be necessary if the U092 comes with tubes in the rubber.

@Enzo: Your info on the pre-V design is very 'horoducational'. It's an interesting history lesson on how the design of pannies today came about. No offence, but I do see tootall has his point as well.

The way I both arguements, some people need the tubes, some don't, and some don't but find it useful to have. It all depends on how they wear their watches, the weather/climate, and other factors. My initial intention was to find out if I should get tubes for my (aftermarket) straps and from the feedback I get, I learn that I do not need. It's good to have, but from tootall's 'fact' that leather straps do not unscrew the pins, I have no worry that my straps have no tubes.

But this doesn't totally mean it's not needed. I believe that for some people who has their leather strap soaked for a bit more often than others may have the strap swollen (as Enzo mentioned) which may slightly tighten around the pins. Also, I believe wet leather can rub against metal, or how we commonly describe as 'leathery' surface. For someone who wears their leather looser (straps move around pin more) in a humid climate, this may happen as well. Unlikely, but not impossible.

As to why Panerai designed the OEM with tubes, they prepare the use of the straps by anyone subjectable to the above factors. They do not know who do not need/want the tubes. They just provide for all in case someone may need it.

 

[OiRogers]

This is my point exactly. It is not possible to do this. For example. Take your PAM. And while the strap is on, pinch your fingers together around the screw and strap, like using the strap as a sort of wrench. Try to spin the screw out. You won't be able to do it. If you have decent screws with good lugs you won't even be able to loosen it. I included a pic of what I mean.

Just my .02 rwi bux...

I've tried this idea with various Rep pams... (only own rep pams ATM)... QC is an issue... screws and lugs are of differing quality.... my 187 has one screw that *Will* work loose if I don't put a tube on it... (only had the watch for two days now and the screw has worked totally loose twice... added tube and no more issue)... my 112 requires tubes or the screws will work loose in less than 4 hours of wear... my 177 and 186 don't require tubes... the screws hold just fine.... my Fiddy requires tubes on both sides... its lugs seem to be border line stripped...

I'm certain that Tootall's statement that Properly Burnished leather on Quality screws/lugs is very true... But my Pams are all in the Rep world (for the time being) and as such... several require tubes because the screws/tubes aren't the highest of quality.... several of my finer straps work great on my 177 and 186, but will work screws loose with a quickness on my 112....

As everyone else has stated.. this is just my experience and my opinion...

I'm certain that Quality straps on Quality watches DON'T need tubes... but my rep watches with Quality straps do seem to require em... as such... I'll continue to use them until I get some springbars.

 

[exoticwatches]

I have managed to damage one of the push button under the PAM 90 watch case lug hands (not the one on the side), the one that u push down and then press on the side to pop out the bar holding the strap to the watch, and the entire button and spring has come out. Guess I used excessive force.
Now when I talked to the Panerai retailer here in India they are saying it would take minimum of 2 months (that too not confirmed and may take more time) to send the watch back to Swiss HQ of Panerai and get it repaired. Getting repaired too they are asking for a prohibitive price. I donot want to undertake such hassles. Can the Tube & Screw system OR the SPRING BAR system help me in using the watch safely by setting the strap tightly with the watch lug hands ?

Also are these spring bars actually better than using regular tubes and screw sets ?

 

[P4GTR]

 

[exoticwatches]

ummm .. meaning of this ???

 

[ALE7575]

ummm .. meaning of this ???

You will get like that and your watch will be still in your wrist !!

ALE

 

[exoticwatches]

LOL ..don't know if thats a good thing or bad .. but if it stays on the wrist I guess thats good enough

 

[frigpig]

ummm .. meaning of this ???

You dug up a thread from the forums infancy. It 6 years old.

Yes, the spring bars are great but I don't know if they will work on a fiddy style case like yours. Can't hurt to try. They are cheap.

 

[frigpig]

The 90 isn't a fiddy style 44mm case. They should work great.

 

[exoticwatches]

Well .... thread might be old but my problem with the "pusher" underneath the Lug hand is new .. and if someone has faced similar problems it would be insightful if they shared their experiences on how they overcame the problem ....