Panerai Strap Tubes?

[seraphe]

I see lots of tubes sold for pannie straps on the bay and am wondering what these are for. One example is as follows:

hxxp://cgi.ebay.com.sg/TUBES-TO-FIT...4683734QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10324QQcmdZViewItem

Are these tubes necessary? So far I have not used any on my 005 and has never heard anyone mentioned about these. Does Panerai use tubes like these? Will these make any difference?

Pls enlighten.

 

[tootall]

I was going to do a write up on this very subject, but I think it will do just as well to discuss it now in reply to your questions.

These tubes are used on straps. You put them where your screws go through to help "protect" your strap. I use quotations because they don't really protect anything.

Are they neccessary? In my experience, NO. When I first started making straps I thought that you must use tubes. I bought quite a few and used them for a while. So one day I was cutting some leather and I tried to rip a piece of the leather off from itself. It was a very tiny sliver (much like a thread hanging from a shirt), but when I tried to rip it off it wouldn't budge. I tried again and again. And that's when the thought came to my mind to experiment on the strength of leather in regards to the tubes being "needed".

So then, the most common reason people use for needing tubes, is that they protect your screws from stripping. This is false. I don't know how this rumor got started, but it is false. I experimented (you can too) with trying to strip the screws by twisting the strap back and forth, up and down. I couldn't get the strap to loosen the screws one bit. I tried this on 3 different PAM's. I even pinched the leather against the screws and tried to twist it and still nothing. So that disproves that theory.

The next popular rumor is that it helps to protect your strap itself. Well as explained earlier, leather is VERY tough. There is virtually no way to rip the leather or wear down the leather from it twisting and spinning it around the lugs. If anything, the twisting and rubbing will burnish the insides on the lug area and cause the leather to become stronger. Even on very thinly skivved leather, you cannot rip it this way. Older leather may be prone more to crack and thus rip on it's own, but this would have to be very dry and brittle leather to begin with. However, it's easily fixed, by using some sort of leather dressing on it.

So then, in conclusion tubes are subjective. They really serve no purpose other than to aid in the ease in which your screws will slide through the strap. That's it. Furthermore, on the thicker straps (most of which are not skivved properly) the tubes increase the thickness and cause the strap to rub against the case. Hope this helps to answer your questions as well as inform those who may have wondered the same thing.

P.S. I have never handled a OEM Panerai strap, so I am not positive on whether or not they come with tubes. I have seen pictures of them with and without tubes, though.

 

[hooligan]

Tubes also allow your strap to move easier. To some, this represents an increase in comfort on the wrist. I happen to like it. Another thing to keep in mind is that the PAM style spring bars will give the same feeling as tubes, plus they make it WAY easier to change straps. So, get the spring bars and kill two birds with one stone. :wink:

 

[tootall]

Tubes also allow your strap to move easier. To some, this represents an increase in comfort on the wrist. I happen to like it.

Easier than what?

Have you ever used a leather strap without tubes? For longer than a week?

I guarantee you, that tubes are not need to allow for your strap to move easier. Leather will burnish/smooth down inside the lug area and be just as slick as the tubes, so no need for them. Also, with tubes, there is the added thickness of the strap which decreases the movement due to it rubbing against the case.

 

[juyaku]

What about using tubes on the Panerai rubber straps? I can see how the rubber might split if you weren't using a tube, but I am wearing my 005 today with rubber and no tubes

 

[Jake48]

Tubes also allow your strap to move easier. To some, this represents an increase in comfort on the wrist. I happen to like it. Another thing to keep in mind is that the PAM style spring bars will give the same feeling as tubes, plus they make it WAY easier to change straps. So, get the spring bars and kill two birds with one stone. :wink:

Nice thoughtfull review... but - as hooligan said, the tubes make the strap rotate easier on the lug screw. Having been a mechanic for quite a few years I can assure you that a little tiny bit of lubricant between two metal surfaces will make the resistence considerably less than the friction created by leather against metal. Not to mention that the tiniest bit of moisture (ie sweat) will cause leather to expand and really tighten against the lug screw no matter how burnished the leather has become.

Other than make the strap mover easier, what is the point?

If you have a PAM with no tubes and find yourself constantly tightening your lug screws becuse they keep loosening, you may have an understanding as to why tubes make sense. The leather to lug screw creates more friction than metal to metal and the leather strap will constantly be making an effort to unscrew your lug screws. With the metal tubes in place you will find that your lug screws will stay screwed in and you also get the added benefit of not having to tighten the lug screws as tight.

I am sure every one who owns a nice PAM collection has experienced a stripped lug screw or lug. Overtightening your lug screws or just the added amount of constantly retighteneing the screws will eventually wear out the screw or lug. It is my belief that this is the most important reason for strap tubes.

Can you get buy without them? Sure! If I had my choice, though, I would rather have them than not, as I see no negative effect and only the potential for a positive gain.

Anyway, something to think about...

 

[tootall]

Tubes also allow your strap to move easier. To some, this represents an increase in comfort on the wrist. I happen to like it. Another thing to keep in mind is that the PAM style spring bars will give the same feeling as tubes, plus they make it WAY easier to change straps. So, get the spring bars and kill two birds with one stone. :wink:

Nice thoughtfull review... but - as hooligan said, the tubes make the strap rotate easier on the lug screw. Having been a mechanic for quite a few years I can assure you that a little tiny bit of lubricant between two metal surfaces will make the resistence considerably less than the friction created by leather against metal.

Other than make the strap mover easier, what is the point?

If you have a PAM with no tubes and find yourself constantly tightening your lug screws becuse they keep loosening you may have an understanding as to why tubes make sense. The leather to lug screw creates more friction than metal to metal and the leather strap will constantly be making an effort to unscrew your lug screws. With the metal tubes in place you will find that your lug screws will stay screwed in and you also get the added benefit of not having to tighten the lug screws as tight.

I am sure every one who owns a nice PAM collection has experienced a stripped lug screw or lug. Overtightening your lug screws or just the added amount of constantly retighteneing the screws will eventually wear out the screw or lug. It is my belief that this is the most important reason for strap tubes.

Can you get buy without them? Sure! If I had my choice, though, I would rather have them than not, as I see no negative effect and only the potential for a positive gain.

Anyway, something to think about...

Did you even read my post?

I am sorry for getting a harsh tone here, but I actually experimented. I tested pretty much all aspects of this situation. I took the time to come up with proof, not an assumption.

There is no way a leather strap will loosen your screws. None. That is a fact.

Burnished leather is as slick if not slicker than metal to metal. Burnished leather is a slick as glass. So the fitting easier is not a problem. Maybe right form the start it is, but break the strap in, and it is just as good.

There is a negative effect to using tubes. The strap becomes thicker and rubs against the case. This can rub the strap to the point of it cracking, discoloring, etc.

Tubes are only subjective. They really serve no purpose other than to aid in the ease in which your screws will slide through the strap. Again, I say this not as an opinion, but as proven fact. I try my best to not argue opinion as everyone has their own and your opinion is as good as mine. Facts are facts though, which cannot be disputed by opinion.

 

[Jake48]

Did you even read my post?

Its a discussion of ideas tootall - your idea, mine and anyone else who jumps in. Your idea and your opinion do not make a fact - niether do mine. Take a breath and think about it. For what ever reason, you seem to be starting from a point that you do not like tubes.

Did you read my post? Like I said, I see no loss in using tubes and only a potental for a net gain.

Why would you get so worked up over that?

My experience is totaly different than yours. I have five PAMS and at least twenty straps that I rotate through. My experience is that the straps that will not fit tubes loosen my lug screws no matter what watch I install them on. Again, like I said, it is just something to think about. No amount of shouting or yelling will make anyone's ideas or experiences become "facts" - most of what is written on the boards is left up to the reader to decide and will probably be interpreted by THIER experiece anyway.

I am nto trying to beat your ideas down, but as a way to demonstrate how we see it different you said
" There is a negative effect to using tubes. The strap becomes thicker and rubs against the case. This can rub the strap to the point of it cracking, discoloring, etc. "

Well, my idea is different than yours. You work with leather so I know that you know leather stretches, in fact, quite easily. If you look at a tube you will see that it's thickness is about the thickness of two or three sheets of paper (certainaly less than .25mm). I find it hard to believe that the thickness of a tube will cause cracking and discoloring. As most people know, PAMS usually have the case beveled between the lugs to give extra room for most straps to clear. Now if you want to install a thicker strap than you may have an issue - but I would say that in this instance it was the thicker strap you intstalled, not the tube that caused the rubbing! Can you see how my idea is different from yours? It doesn't make me more right than you or you more right than me - only different. Keep an open mind...


Don't be a hater - be a lover - LOVE YOUR TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hooligan]

Easier than what?

Have you ever used a leather strap without tubes? For longer than a week?

I guarantee you, that tubes are not need to allow for your strap to move easier. Leather will burnish/smooth down inside the lug area and be just as slick as the tubes, so no need for them. Also, with tubes, there is the added thickness of the strap which decreases the movement due to it rubbing against the case.

Yep, I sure have. In fact I just started using tubes about 4 months ago.

I wasn't discounting any of your arguments, I was simply adding my OPINION. We're all friends here.

Pick up a PAM between your thumb and forefinger by the watch head. Now, move it up and down so that the strap ends "flap" like a bird's wings. The strap with the tubes installed will "flap" easier than one without from my experience.

I'm not attacking you, so please don't attack me. I clearly stated in my first post that "To some, this represents an increase in comfort on the wrist. I happen to like it.", if that doesn't appear to be a disclaimer of personal preference/opinion, I don't know what is.

So, to sum up my feelings (as I don't think I did a good job in my first post), tubes are not necessary, but some people like using them.

As always, YMMV. (Your Mileage May Vary)

 

[kiki]

[quote="Jake48
My experience is that the straps that will not fit tubes loosen my lug screws no matter what watch I install them on.[/quote]

Same experience with straps without tubes... loosen lig screws

 

[paulw]

I've worn my straps with and without Tubes and my preference is for Tubes.

Without Tubes I found the Strap didn't sit as firmly on the Screws, felt sloppy.
I found the Tubes filled out the large hole on the strap and therefore the Strap didn't twist on the screws.

But as Tootal said, I can't see it as a Strap wear saver.

 

[tootall]

Did you even read my post?

Its a discussion of ideas tootall - your idea, mine and anyone else who jumps in. Your idea and your opinion do not make a fact - niether do mine. Take a breath and think about it. For what ever reason, you seem to be starting from a point that you do not like tubes.

Did you read my post? Like I said, I see no loss in using tubes and only a potental for a net gain.

Why would you get so worked up over that?

My experience is totaly different than yours. I have five PAMS and at least twenty straps that I rotate through. My experience is that the straps that will not fit tubes loosen my lug screws no matter what watch I install them on. Again, like I said, it is just something to think about. No amount of shouting or yelling will make anyone's ideas or experiences become "facts" - most of what is written on the boards is left up to the reader to decide and will probably be interpreted by THIER experiece anyway.

I am nto trying to beat your ideas down, but as a way to demonstrate how we see it different you said
" There is a negative effect to using tubes. The strap becomes thicker and rubs against the case. This can rub the strap to the point of it cracking, discoloring, etc. "

Well, my idea is different than yours. You work with leather so I know that you know leather stretches, in fact, quite easily. If you look at a tube you will see that it's thickness is about the thickness of two or three sheets of paper (certainaly less than .25mm). I find it hard to believe that the thickness of a tube will cause cracking and discoloring. As most people know, PAMS usually have the case beveled between the lugs to give extra room for most straps to clear. Now if you want to install a thicker strap than you may have an issue - but I would say that in this instance it was the thicker strap you intstalled, not the tube that caused the rubbing! Can you see how my idea is different from yours? It doesn't make me more right than you or you more right than me - only different. Keep an open mind...


Don't be a hater - be a lover - LOVE YOUR TUBES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL,

This is the exact reason I did not do my write up in the first place. People like you would just spout thier opinions and muck up the facts.

There is no possible way the leather straps can loosen lug screws, unless your screws or lug holes are bad to begin with. It's hard for me to convey through text what I mean. I will take some pictures tonight to help clarify. Here is a test to find out if your screws are bad to begin with. Take off the strap and screw in the screws with no strap. Then try to spin the screw out with your thumb and forefinger. If you can spin it out pretty easily then you have messed up lugs/screws. You would be better off getting the Pam springbars. I will agree that in this case yes, a newer leather strap may loosen them. But a tubed strap would as well, it would just take longer.

I did not say that inserting tubes into a strap will crack or discolor a strap. I said that it makes the strap thicker, which in turn rubs against the case, which will discolor or crack a strap. The thickness does matter, but most straps that do not already have them installed, do rub once they are installed.

Furthermore, I said from the beginning I used to use tubes all the time. So I have no vendetta against them, lol.

Now I do have a disclaimer that I have not tried every strap out there, but ones that are properly skivved and are quality leather will spin just as freely as having tubes.

hooligan, no problems man. I understand totally what you are saying. But how often do you wear your strap fully extended like that? LOL. When it's on your wrist you would have to be constantly adjusting your watch up and down your arm to notice any difference. Even then, a properly burnished piece of leather is just as slick as metal. And you point out my point exactly. That tubes are subjective. They don't really serve a purpose, but some people like them and some don't, simple.

 

[vbarrett]

I've worn my straps with and without Tubes and my preference is for Tubes.

Opposite here.

At first, when I bought my first Panerai, I absolutely thought they were not a necessity but in fact, mandatory -- why else would they come with the tubes, if not?

I ordered buckets worth of tubes, and screws from Elliot, and others on eBay.

For whatever reason, I noticed that the new ones were rather difficult to fit in with tubes, so one day I just left them off. I find the feel is "tighter" not looser with tubes, and it sits badly on my wrists with them inside. Could be my imagination, and are NOT FACTS JUST AN OPINION , but there we are.

Tubes, nyet.

 

[hooligan]

...That tubes are subjective. They don't really serve a purpose, but some people like them and some don't, simple.

Amen.

 

[Jake48]

[ I took the time to come up with proof, not an assumption.
There is no way a leather strap will loosen your screws. None. That is a fact.

I will agree that in this case yes, a newer leather strap may loosen them.

I try my best to not argue opinion as everyone has their own and your opinion is as good as mine.

...That tubes are subjective. They don't really serve a purpose, but some people like them and some don't, simple.

Amen.

Wow, I start my post with "Nice thoughtfull review" and your answer to my stated OPINION starts with "Did you even read my post? I am sorry for getting a harsh tone here, but I actually experimented. I tested pretty much all aspects of this situation. I took the time to come up with proof, not an assumption." and ends with "Facts are facts though, which cannot be disputed by opinion."

Then the lowering of the discussion to personal attacks " People like you would just spout thier opinions and muck up the facts."

Not a very friendly tone.

Interesting? Which one is it? Is it a fact, an opinion or is it subjective?

I make every effort to start out friendly with my OPINION and right away you start telling me my opinion is no good becuase your OPINION is fact. I am sorry I didn't know you were the keeper of all facts.

You seem to be arguing with yourself - " I try my best to not argue opinion" then "That tubes are subjective. They don't really serve a purpose"

I think I would call that last statement an OPINION and you seem to know that by your statement "some people like them and some don't, simple."

Ypu are right about something, this is pretty funny and we all need a good laugh

Anyways, I like my straps with tubes and you like yours without. I am sure we can both find people who support our respective opinions. Not sure why you took the harsh tone in the first place. But I am not the guy who is going to step in and start telling everyone I know the "facts".

You said it as good as I could, "some people like them and some don't, simple."

and I think we can all agree that every one is entitled to an OPINION...

 

[bme]

What a bunch of losers those design guys are at Panerai.....inventing tubes for no reason at all!

 

[Ferrariman]

Well....I certainly don't want to add any fuel here but I have had a strap loosen a lug screw on my rep 187 without tubes. In fact a member on the board was witness to it. I installed tubes and it quit doing it.

I know the Gen 111H and 250 Pams come with tubes in the straps. The Gen straps bought by themselves from my AD do not come with tubes.

One of the issues with any argument as it pertains to reps is there is no standardization like a gen product. One cannot say that the strap will not rub with tubes because I have one of those too. My 196 rep, with tubes installed, rubs the case.

These are things that happened to me with my watches your watch may be different.

All good though.

 

[tootall]

Interesting? Which one is it? Is it a fact, an opinion or is it subjective?

I make every effort to start out friendly with my OPINION and right away you start telling me my opinion is no good becuase your OPINION is fact. I am sorry I didn't know you were the keeper of all facts.

You seem to be arguing with yourself - " I try my best to not argue opinion" then "That tubes are subjective. They don't really serve a purpose"

I think I would call that last statement an OPINION and you seem to know that by your statement "some people like them and some don't, simple."

Again, you seem to have misread my post.

People have opinons on whether or not they like tubes. I agree to that.

The facts are that properly skivved, quality leather straps will not loosen a screw. Unless the screw is messed up to begin with. Another fact is that a burnished leather is as slick as metal. Those are the facts. That was in response to the thread starter's questions "Are these tubes necessary?" , "Will these make any difference?". The answer simply put is: You don't need them, because they serve no purpose. They are a personal preference.

You were the one that said "Nice thoughtfull review - but" which indicates that I was wrong about something. "But" is a contrast. So I refuted your opinion, with facts, and showed they are not needed for anything other than a personal preference. I don't think I am keeper of all facts, just the ones about tubes and leather straps. I have spent the time and effort to get the proof for what I have to say.

I'll just leave it at "They don't really serve a purpose, but some people like them and some don't, simple."

 

[tootall]

Well....I certainly don't want to add any fuel here but I have had a strap loosen a lug screw on my rep 187 without tubes. In fact a member on the board was witness to it. I installed tubes and it quit doing it.

Could you explain "how" the strap loosened the screw. I am willing to give up my position if someone has proof otherwise. Are you sure the screw was not messed up in the first place? And what strap was this?

 

[Jake48]

Well....I certainly don't want to add any fuel here but I have had a strap loosen a lug screw on my rep 187 without tubes. In fact a member on the board was witness to it. I installed tubes and it quit doing it.

Could you explain "how" the strap loosened the screw. I am willing to give up my position if someone has proof otherwise. Are you sure the screw was not messed up in the first place? And what strap was this?

Proof? Do mean proof like global warming really exists type of proof? This could take a while...

Tell me you aren't really arguing that you know better than the engineers at Panerai.

Come on tootall, can we at least agree that this is getting pretty funny

If you want proof, take a pin that fits tightly through a strap. Wet the strap a little. Wait. Unless you have some magic leather, the leather will expand tightly around the pin. Try and spin the pin. In some instances the strap may actually appear to fuse to the pin.

Now take the same strap (other side) put a tube that fits tightly through the strap. Insert a lug screw through the tube Wet the strap just like you did the first strap. Wait. Now try and spin the lug screw.

VILOA! MAGIC! The pin will spin just as freely as when the strap was dry.

And for the record - given that Panerai's reputation and main purpose was built on a DIVE watch I would expect that they thought through the idea that there was a pretty high probability that the watch strap would get wet.

Just one example and I am sure there are more.

Oops - there I go again with those d@mn opinions